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Thread: They All Must Go

  1. #1
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    They All Must Go

    There's always a good sounding reason attached, can't just go around toppling uncooperative nations without selling it to the people first. This list was cobbled together fairly quickly as every one has the same general theme in thinking back over the last few decades. How many did I miss?

    They're only difficult to spot when actually going down, but in hindsight, the all out propaganda pushes of the past start to come into fairly good focus. In time, the current Project to steer Western hearts and minds will start coming more and more in focus as well, but of course the name of that game is always a day late, and a dollar short. The deed is done and the world has moved on.



    For America to Be Secure, Assad Must Go
    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/mi...must-go-205111


    Maduro Must Go: Venezuelans Deserve a Functioning Democracy
    https://www.heritage.org/americas/co...ning-democracy


    Qaddafi Must Go
    https://www.heritage.org/americas/co...ning-democracy


    Bush: Saddam Hussein must go

    https://www.cnn.com/2002/US/04/06/bush.iraq/index.html



    Advice From a Prince: Milosevic Must Go

    https://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/29/o...go-393347.html


    Richard Cohen Reminds the Left Why Castro Must Go

    https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/...tro-must-go-2/


    Timothy Lomperis: Putin must go

    https://www.thedailytimes.com/column...0f9c3db19.html
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Being well organised in advance and a plan is very important and used to be working well for the putrid ones ambitions of pain n suffering enhancement But the now of today holds a mighty wind of change.

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  5. #3
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Being well organised in advance and a plan is very important and used to be working well for the putrid ones ambitions of pain n suffering enhancement But the now of today holds a mighty wind of change.
    There's no organized resistance Vern, not even close, you're chasing rabbits down little bunny holes thinking that! I do however understand that it comes from a good place, a good heart wanting to see good things happen, but seeing things that aren't really there is nothing but a numbing balm to the harsh reality of things.

    Like it or not (and most of us do actually like it), we're all being blown about here and there on hurricane type winds, doing nothing but reacting, like waiting for the next threat to jump out and yell "boo" in a haunted house. No planning or organization is possible, in an environment of nothing but reactions to constant stimuli. And if it's not reacting to the next "boo!", it's dashing towards the next false hope.

    Back and forth we go, like operating on a treadmill, always busy but never going anywhere. The hamster on its wheel would understand...

    You can point to these various political uprisings, most of them now hard right wing in nature, but those themselves are just knee jerk reactions to this suffocating liberal world order. But their aim is at false aspects of it, all they're really doing is lurching large groups of people into the next wild goose chase reaction. Gun fights at the OK Corral solve nothing, they just keep us peasants divided and bickering, while at the top nothing ever changes. Smooth sailing steady as she goes.

    Vern, you think the oligarchs at the very top really give much of a shit when a Donald Trump, or a Giorgia Meloni appears on stage? They're all bark and no bite, still nothing of major consequence changes at the top elite levels, they just further heighten the "us vs. them" mentality here on the ground, but the "them" part of that is just other people like you and me seeking answers and solutions themselves. It's just a circular firing squad.

    One of the major templates is right there in front of us showing how easily we're corralled and controlled, I listed quite a few of them to initiate this thread, by and large we follow along like sheep whenever our rulers wish to knock over yet another nation that's not playing ball with them from bended knee.

    There's a reason why we don't have more clear eyed intellects like Jeffrey Sachs out there being invited onto news shows, he's sees the game going on, and strongly recommends "stop it, just stop..." Stop the madness.

    The ruining of Syria is already long forgotten, may as well be ancient history at this point, but here he was way way back in 2019 trying to get people to see what's really going on there besides the mantra "Assad must go":

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abCkOe5KGxI


    In this current gambit, "Putin must go" is at the very heart of it, but he represents a major power with nuclear weapons so a bit more care must be taken. Not a lot, it's still pretty damn openly brazen, but some extra care is taken. The US and NATO are not there as knights in shining armor trying desperately to save a fledgling democracy, hell, in the end they really couldn't give two shits about the suffering of those poor people, they'll fight to the very last Ukranian if they have to in order to achieve the ultimate objective.

    And then they'll clink drink glasses together in celebration, maybe while dancing on another few hundred thousand fresh graves for extra spice.

    Ukraine is nothing but a chess piece on the grand strategic chessboard. Not a minor piece like an easy to sacrifice pawn, more like a knight or a bishop, a little more care must be used in their sacrifice as their value is more, but sacrifice is always on the table in order to achieve the ultimate check mate.

    Here's Jeffrey Sachs talking near blasphemy in this current atmosphere, I wonder how many people will immediately label him a Putin puppet for voicing such sacrilege, when all he's really doing is seizing a rare opportunity to point out the madness.

    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    You believe good people have not seen the putrids in action n organising decades ago and also made plans ?.

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  9. #5
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    You believe good people have not seen the putrids in action n organising decades ago and also made plans ?.
    It's not a matter of belief, or hope for that matter, as of yet there's zero evidence for it.

    Some people point to Russia as that organized group, with Putin accurately describing the U.S. led World Order arrayed against him for daring to be a competitor (along with China), but by no means does that make him the solution.

    More fool's gold.
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 4th October 2022 at 17:49.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Not soooo long ago was zero everdance for a cabal, illumininto, elite families, obvious corruption, huge swamp, etc, it was heresay n heresy.

    As always allways, one is the solution Fred, then outside of one-now-won. imo

    Highest card the Fool fred.

    There was n is a plan or not.

  12. #7
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    The eternal problem with empires.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_WzfiB-syU


    The dangers with NATO expansion.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZGinrKFtGY

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  14. #8
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    John Mearsheimer. Another voice of reason from the realms of realpolitik.

    I can see why he'd appear on a Chris Hedges fan channel.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky first co-authored a book back in the late 80's called "Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media". It's as relative today as it ever was, and I'm focusing on this particular portion of its summary:


    Herman and Chomsky then train their critical eyes on what they consider to be the media’s most glaring failures. They begin with the media’s strikingly different coverage of similar events based on its perception of “worthy” or “unworthy” victims. For example, the murder of a Polish priest in a communist country sparked outrage, while the similar murders of clergy in Latin America received far less attention. The Polish priest was a “worthy” victim—that is, worthy of media attention—because he was killed by an enemy state and therefore valuable as a political martyr. Clergy in Latin America are unworthy victims because their killers are U.S. “client states” and must be exonerated.
    https://www.supersummary.com/manufac...nsent/summary/

    Yemen today is what they would term an "unworthy victim", because they have been invaded and occupied by an important US ally, Saudi Arabia. One would have had to be looking very hard back in 2015 to even know that an invasion of a sovereign nation had occurred, but had they stumbled across the news, here's a typical descriptor of the event:

    The Arab alliance conducting the strikes initially plans a month-long campaign, but it could last five or six months, a Gulf diplomatic official said. That suggests the air campaign might cost Riyadh more than $1 billion.

    Such a figure would be insignificant compared to the $707 billion of net foreign assets held by Saudi Arabia’s central bank, which acts as a sovereign wealth fund.

    “The oil-rich kingdom is likely to be able to afford current Yemeni operations, particularly given its low levels of public debt and large sovereign reserves,” the IISS analysts said.

    Any ground incursion into Yemen, which Riyadh has not ruled out, would cost more. It might resemble France’s intervention in Mali since 2013, a relatively low-intensity conflict involving several thousand French troops in a remote location.

    French officials have estimated that cost about $3 million per day, or $90 million a month. The figure implies that in addition to the cost of air operations, Riyadh might spend over $500 million on a small ground incursion lasting six months.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-y...0MR1KZ20150331

    Debbie Downer says nothing to see here folks... It's not even an invasion it's an "incursion", it's really only a matter of money, and our buddies the French had recently done something similar in Mali so everything's fine, continue about your day.



    With Libya just a few years earlier. This time it was really serious, we had another mad man on the loose, and all people of good conscience agreed he had to be stopped at all cost:
    Gaddafi caught like "rat" in a drain, humiliated and shot
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-l...79K43S20111021

    Good riddance the world said, another unworthy victim. The "good guys" did their job and did it well.



    Of course I could go on and on here with the litany of unworthy victims as in the original post here, but let's cut to the chase. Now suddenly, we have a rare worthy victim!

    How Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine Violates International Law
    https://www.cfr.org/article/how-russ...ernational-law

    Ah yes, now suddenly we're concerned about international law! Funny how that works isn't it? This is the power of mass media. It produces "manufactured consent" (unworthy victims) when the noble cause demands, and it produces "manufactured outrage" (worthy victims) when the noble cause demands.

    Reminds me of an old saying: "Fool me once shame on you, fool me 25 times shame on me".
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  18. #10
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    The "Gadaffi Must Go!" storyline, the one that he was "passing out Viagra to his troops so they could rape more women while his snipers targeted innocent children", is one of the few to actually be exposed for what it actually was. A story. Thanks to Hillary Clinton's emails that were exposed back in the day, we get a rare glimpse into what the real story was, and even more importantly, how empire views competition.

    So what was the real story there?

    France’s Designs

    Plus, the propaganda themes, which stress American righteousness in standing up to foreign evil, are useful in obscuring the self-interested motives that often circle around a killing field like the one that Libya has become.

    For instance, another Blumenthal memo to Clinton explained France’s political and pecuniary interests in toppling Gaddafi and thus thwarting his ambitious plans to use Libya’s oil wealth as a means of freeing parts of Africa from French domination.

    In an April 2, 2011 email, Blumenthal informed Clinton that sources close to one of Gaddafi sons were reporting that “Qaddafi’s government holds 143 tons of gold, and a similar amount in silver” and the hoard had been moved from the Libyan Central Bank in Tripoli closer to the border with Niger and Chad.

    “This gold was accumulated prior to the current rebellion and was intended to be used to establish a pan-African currency based on the Libyan golden Dinar. This plan was designed to provide the Francophone African Countries with an alternative to the French franc (CFA).”

    Blumenthal then added that “According to knowledgeable individuals, this quantity of gold and silver is valued at more than $7 billion. French intelligence officers discovered this plan shortly after the current rebellion began, and this was one of the factors that influenced President Nicolas Sarkozy’s decision to commit France to the attack on Libya.”

    The email added: “According to these individuals, Sarkozy’s plans are driven by the following issues: a. A desire to gain a greater share of Libya oil production, b. Increase French influence in North Africa, c. Improve his internal political situation in France, d. Provide the French military with an opportunity to reassert its position in the world, e. Address the concern of his advisors over Qaddafi’s long term plans to supplant France as the dominant power in Francophone Africa.”

    In an earlier email, dated March 27, 2011, Blumenthal also discussed the French interests in the conflict, citing “knowledgeable individuals” who said that Sarkozy “is pressing to have France emerge from this crisis as the principal foreign ally of any new government that takes power.”

    So do you think it would it be easier for the Obama administration to rally American support behind this “regime change” by explaining how the French wanted to steal Libya’s wealth and maintain French neocolonial influence over Africa – or would Americans respond better to propaganda themes about Gaddafi passing out Viagra to his troops so they could rape more women while his snipers targeted innocent children? Bingo!
    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2...ew-about-libya



    After watching him in this brief 18 minute interview not long before his number was up, Muammar Gadaffi doesn't come across as a blood thirsty madman to me. His high crimes was to dare offer a substantive challenge to the collective West's stranglehold over Africa, and for that attempt he paid for with his life in truly barbaric fashion:
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 9th October 2022 at 14:59.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    The "Gadaffi Must Go!" storyline, the one that he was "passing out Viagra to his troops so they could rape more women while his snipers targeted innocent children", is one of the few to actually be exposed for what it actually was. A story.
    Well, you know for a fact that it's an American concoction whenever there's even the slightest hint of sexuality in the story. The US government has always had a bizarre obsession with sexuality — especially that of whoever stands in their way. But then again, analogous to the tale of the hammer and the nail, one could easily capture the essence of the US government in the following sentence...:


    "If you've made it your objective to be the biggest dick in the world, then I guess everything else looks like a pussy waiting to be fucked."


    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    "If you've made it your objective to be the biggest dick in the world, then I guess everything else looks like a pussy waiting to be fucked."
    ROFL
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  24. #13
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Somewhere I read that Putin has been obsessed with Gaddafi's death, he sure wouldn't want to die that way. He sure is a criminal, but then again there are courts or should be international courts where such people get charged. Of course also many US presidents and leaders should end up there and eventually in prison, but that will never happen in our world. Only real whistleblowers and heroes end up dead or in prison.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvuesa07irM

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  26. #14
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Somewhere I read that Putin has been obsessed with Gaddafi's death, he sure wouldn't want to die that way. He sure is a criminal, but then again there are courts or should be international courts where such people get charged. Of course also many US presidents and leaders should end up there and eventually in prison, but that will never happen in our world. Only real whistleblowers and heroes end up dead or in prison.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvuesa07irM
    Well that certainly was prophetic of him, turned out it was to be his turn next.

    This is one that's unfortunately all but forgotten in the American psyche, and even when it is remembered, it's only along the lines of that we led from behind. That's the only thing we see that was disgraceful about it, that we didn't lead the charge.

    The collective West, in our customary arrogance, loves to look down noses at "those poor people" in places like Russia that suffer under such intense propaganda; all the while being clueless that we're dripping in our own false narratives. There's no better propaganda, than propaganda that can't be seen.

    Like that cute little joke I posted from Twitter a few days ago:

    An American and a Russian are drinking in a bar. The American says "that's some propaganda machine you've got over there". The Russian says "yes, but you've got some propaganda machine of your own". The American says "what propaganda?"
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    [...] but then again there are courts or should be international courts where such people get charged. Of course also many US presidents and leaders should end up there and eventually in prison, but that will never happen in our world.
    The United States of America and Israel are the only two UN countries that refuse to acknowledge the International Criminal Court.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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