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Thread: Italy chooses Far-Right

  1. #46
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    Still wondering if the NY Times article was calling Tolkien fans crypto-fascists.

    Is/Was Tolkien the Grand Wizard of some Middle-Earth KKK?
    I don't think the NYT itself would be equating either Tolkien or his fans with fascists, Brother, but I could of course be wrong.

    I think that what they were trying to highlight would rather be the bizarre oddity of Tolkien — of all writers — being chosen as the ideologue by proponents of the far-right. And there is some pretext for that, because many years ago, I also learned that someone whose acquaintance I had made on Usenet and who was himself also an avid Tolkien fan has in the meantime come out of the closet as a rabid far-right bigot and open racist.

    In a way, I can see that there would be some Freudian thing going on with regard to why fascists like Tolkien so much, as well as other such epic fictional universes. Stories like the ones in Tolkien's universe are highlighting certain values into extremes — not because they are conservative values, but because they are values, and because positioning them opposite one another opens the path to stories full of dynamics.

    This goes back to the primary values — or polarities, if you will — within Creation itself. In order to tell an epic story like that, you have to take some of the most easily identifiable concepts and make them into polarities that oppose one another in some epic setting. That's how you create a dynamic that is both entertaining and educational, for young and for old.

    The far-right is however completely misinterpreting these epic battles as if they are the core of what it's all about. It is a very rigid kind of thinking, in which there is no room for nuance or deeper interpretation. They are judging the book by its cover — literally. Whereas you and I see LOTR as Frodo's struggle against the power of the One Ring that he, in his innocence, bravery and goodness, has set out to destroy, they instead only see battles between good and evil, fought by a superior master race (Humans, preferably of the Nordic variety) against an inferior degenerate race (Orcs and Trolls, representing the "impure" non-Nordic races of immigrants). They see the battles as a glorification of military power, and they see the King — er, that would be me then? Oh my! — as their ideal leader, because fascism craves a strong and charismatic leader, as opposed to anarchy (which means "no rulers").

    So yeah, it's a Freudian thing, I guess. The far-right is into hero worship and militarism, and of all of Tolkien's works, LOTR specifically contains those elements, even though Tolkien did not mean for them to be regarded as such. As the matter of fact, J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout Christian, and his Christian theology is woven throughout all of his Middle-Earthian works, from Eru Ilúvatar and the Ainur (representing the Abrahamic God and Angels), including Melkor (representing Lucifer), over to Aragorn, (once he is crowned to King of Gondor and Arnor) as a metaphor for Jesus as the king of all humans, bringing God's Kingdom to Earth.

    And the irony is of course that Jesus/Yeshua was the exact opposite of anything the fascists stand for. He taught love, compassion and equality, and he was no friend of capitalism. The hippies of the 1960s and 1970s didn't quite get it right either — far from it — but they did at least come a lot closer to those ideals of tolerance, equality and love than any fascist ever has or ever will.

    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  3. #47
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Tolkien experienced the hells of World War I in the trenches where he started first to write the Hobbit and came up with ideas for his fantasy worlds. Despite being born in South Africa, he grew up in a countrside village in England and that was his inspiration for the Shire. While later on he came to see the industrilization of society and the terrible destruction caused by man-made machines. He came from Catholic background and he had interest in mythology, folklore and languages as a linguist. He was inspired by the Finnish Kalevala too.

    Although Tolkien fought in World War One, he said the two world wars had not inspired the writing of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

    However, he did admit the landscape of the Dead Marshes, where Frodo Baggins is transfixed by corpses lying in pools, and the approach to Mordor's Black Gate "owe something to Northern France after the Battle of the Somme".
    Last edited by Wind, 30th September 2022 at 07:03.

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Mmmmm so there is hope for her and Italy after all.

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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Mmmmm so there is hope for her and Italy after all.
    That would be quite a stretch, dear Hobbit...
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Well she has the ring as such.

    Mmmm or is getting into power and taking power away from the globalists throwing the ring , in a way ?.

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  11. #51
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Well she has the ring as such.

    Mmmm or is getting into power and taking power away from the globalists throwing the ring , in a way ?.
    I think you're looking at it the wrong way.

    If you're going to map the situation onto Middle-Earth, then it's not the globalists who are Sauron. The globalists would rather be the Stewards of Gondor — especially Denethor — who are set in their ways and very comfortable in their skin, thinking themselves untouchable and unassailable, while fascism on the other hand is the One Ring.

    In the USA, the One Ring even had a hook on it. It was called Q, and it poisoned about a third of the country, filling their hearts with the adulation of Sauron and poisoning their minds, just as how it had created the Nazgûl.

    Donald Trump was not Sauron, any more than that Georgia Meloni would be. He and she are only Ring Wraiths, just like the other fascists that went before them — Mussolini, Franco, Hitler, Peron, Batista, et al. Fascism itself is the One Ring, and Sauron is the unseen, disembodied creator of it.

    Remember, by the time of the events of the LOTR trilogy, Sauron already no longer had a physical body anymore — his body was destroyed when Isildur cut off his hand — but it was the very existence of the One Ring that kept him alive. When Gollum fell into the Fiery Lakes of Mount Doom with the One Ring after having bitten off Frodo's finger, Sauron ceased to exist.

    Saruman survived — or at least, in the book version he did, because in the movie version he was killed by Legolas — but Saruman was only a servant of Sauron; he was a Maia (like Gandalf) who had gone over to the dark side. The fact that Sauron was disembodied at the time of the LOTR trilogy allegorically makes him more into an idea — just as fascism is an ideology — than into a flesh-and-blood person.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    All had a beginning, pain nn suffering had a beginning, a happening, a response, so the acting may begin, the hero's journey Arkeytype must have appearence, be ex n in clusive for iris n eye to mirror.

    This leaves as always n allways, several endings depending upon , now.

    Even the reading.

    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    That would be quite a stretch, dear Hobbit...
    She therefore is the hero ?.

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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    All had a beginning, pain nn suffering had a beginning, a happening, a response, so the acting may begin, the hero's journey Arkeytype must have appearence, be ex n in clusive for iris n eye to mirror.

    This leaves as always n allways, several endings depending upon , now.

    Even the reading.

    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    That would be quite a stretch, dear Hobbit...
    She therefore is the hero ?.
    On the contrary, dear Hobbit; she is one of the Ring Wraiths. Be thou not beguiled by her fair hair and Elven face, for in her heart lives the darkness of Sauron's Ring.

    The hero does not seek fame, wealth or power. The hero fights for What Is Good™, every single day, without that anyone's looking. The hero is the little guy on the battlefield who makes sacrifices for All That Is Good And Noble™, even when nobody is aware of the sacrifices he makes and the wounds he suffers.

    The hero does not build walls; instead he climbs them so as to save the little kitten on the other side. Nobody knows that he did so, nor how many times he fell down and hurt himself while trying to get to the other side, for he did it to save the kitten, not so as to reap any rewards or to have people talk of his deeds.

    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Ahhhh n Mmmmm we have movement away from hero and remedy, why create pain n suffering if there is no remedy ?.

    Is the hero not the wall, even if past or present exists not ?.

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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Ahhhh n Mmmmm we have movement away from hero and remedy, why create pain n suffering if there is no remedy ?.
    Nay, dear Hobbit; thou seest it wrongly again. The hero is not a public figure. He is neither a politician nor a talking head. The hero cares not for the treacherous whispers of Wormtongue, nor does he care for the magic of the Rings of Power.

    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Is the hero not the wall, even if past or present exists not ?.
    Nay afresh, dear Hobbit. The hero knows that walls are man-made obstacles that stand in the ways of those who seek to do the work of the Light. The hero is compassionate and brave, driven by the unseen nobility within his heart.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Have a great day today

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Yes, i wish the mouse be the hero also.

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Feel WE need to talk Frank, debate n communicate, not just on what the Legassy media say of this lady which gets repeated but the likes of this vid > https://odysee.com/@thebigreset:1/EN...EU1oRRdl77nYB0 <

    Everything is now changing fast, forgiveness so so high on the agenda and much anger to deal with first to those who reacted to the Plandemic lies and coersion ?.

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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Feel WE need to talk Frank, debate n communicate, not just on what the Legassy media say of this lady which gets repeated but the likes of this vid > https://odysee.com/@thebigreset:1/EN...EU1oRRdl77nYB0 <

    Everything is now changing fast, forgiveness so so high on the agenda and much anger to deal with first to those who reacted to the Plandemic lies and coersion ?.
    Vern, first of all, the issue of the Covid-19 pandemic is off-topic for this thread. This is a thread about the revival of fascism, not about an already long disproven conspiracy theory.

    Secondly, getting into said disproven conspiracy theory, I don't care how long you're going to keep on parroting said conspiracy theory, nor how many more talking heads you're going to keep on coming up with, but there is no such thing as a "plandemic" [sic].

    It is always that very same old bullshit from the conspiracy theorists of the far-right that they've been spouting for now two years already, and all of the verified data confirms that the SARS-CoV-2 virus originated in bats and naturally mutated so as to be able to infect humans. This happened in the wild — and it has recently happened again elsewhere, with a completely different virus — and was not planned by any government, spook agency or whatever. Accept it now and let it rest.

    Thirdly, I am currently battling with a very bad flu — the real flu, not the common cold, as what people often wrongfully call the flu — and I am way too sick to be conducting any kind of serious discussions. And that is especially the case with regard to serious discussions that are entirely futile.

    You refuse — with prejudice — to accept the facts in favor of the narratives from talking heads and well-constructed pseudo-documentaries, so it's pointless to try and get you to see the truth, but I wish that you would then also come to understand that it's equally pointless to try and push your conspiracy theory here, because you are not going to change my mind any more than that I would be able to change yours — and Providence knows I've tried.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Blessings to you for responding Frank and hope your well soon, very happy that WE are at least communicating and not threatening, will send some good vibes your way.

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