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Thread: What The New World Order Is, What it Isn't, And Can It Be Demonstrated?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    The aspect of this "The Grayzone" interview pertinent to this thread, is another example of the so called "Rules Based International Order". They bring up a firebrand neocon named Kurt Volker, whose resume includes US Ambassador to NATO, and U.S. Special Representative for Ukraine for Donald Trump.

    They discuss a piece he wrote in June of 2021 concerning Russia/Ukraine, and for the purpose of just this thread, the following is how he both begins and ends it:

    There can be no accommodation unless and until Russian aggression ends and it returns to the rules-based order
    There can be no accommodation unless and until Russian aggression ends and it returns to the rules-based order.
    https://cepa.org/article/what-does-a...hat-you-think/

    This is precisely the type of arrogant and bullying US foreign policy that much of the world is interested in breaking free from, the process in transitioning from a unipolar world order to a multi polar world order is already well underway, and the tighter it tries to squeeze and hang on its past as the single world hegemon, the faster the US will see it slip through its fingers. You can't carry water in a balled up fist, it must be cupped and nurtured. Diplomacy is the future, it's happening all around us, but this transition is likely to get even bumpier until the big bully thrashes himself into exhaustion.

    Hopefully, he doesn't drag the entire world down with him...
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Canada
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    Quote Originally posted by Catsquotl View Post
    I for one no longer care who or what pretends to be a "leader" for a while. The true fascist 1984 like states are not going to happen.
    We're goaded and pushed to a life of productivity, entertainment and escapism.
    The U.S is already economically fascist, with about roughly 20% of the population, shareholders in corporations, who lord it over working people. One of the reasons this class is under represented online, is they are too dead tired after working overtime to make up for their meager, starvation wages. And both parties are responsible.

    The U.S., with its surveillance state, random urine testing, combined with its slave like conditions for vast numbers of people, IS like 1984. Europe is more like what you describe.

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  5. #33
    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    ok,

    Granted I Live in europe, You are in canada right?

    There's countries all over south america, africa, asia that have varying degrees of oppressive leaders.
    A few of them are no doubt owned or pressed in servitude to the big american coorperation.

    And yet all over loads of those countries people are living lives.
    I think that as long as we acknowledge some western states to pretend to be the best thing that happened to us since toilet paper.
    We are part of the problem.

    Don't get me started on feeling or being tired. Beat down, depressed and burned out from work.
    In the words of Morpheus.. I know exactly what you mean.

    Now then, where is this different form the middle ages.
    Where farmers worked hard for land owners, starving themselves. etc etc.
    No "new" world order here or there..
    Have a great day today

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  7. #34
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Uh oh, there's trouble in paradise. LOL hand 'em over damnit!:

    Polish prime minister threatens «mini coalition» if Germany doesn’t hand over tanks

    Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has warned of forming a "mini-alliance" of Ukraine's allies if Germany does not finally deliver Leopard tanks to the Ukrainian army, the head of the Polish government said in an interview in which he described Berlin's misgivings in this regard as "unacceptable".
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...b5c5e8cc315563

    IMO, NATO fragmenting is a very real possibility as the pressure mounts. Desperation setting in, old problems, grudges beginning to re-surface, this could get ugly on more fronts than just the battlefield.

    The tectonic plates are shifting right below our feet, a new world order is replacing the old, maps are fixing to be withdrawn, with at least Poland salivating to retake the piece of Western Ukraine (Galicia look it up) that was taken away; and all we hear is blathering about Putin this Putin that. He can't tie his shoes, he's sick, he fell and shit himself, his army is incompetent, yada yada yada.

    Nero fiddling while Rome burns comes to mind. And because of this feeding the masses a continuing conveyor belt of bullshit narratives, a lot of people are going to be caught blindsided by this.

    And, as usual, it didn't have to be this way. But that's the way the cookie crumbles. By the old order trying to reconstitute its hegemonic stranglehold, it's actually playing the role of catalyst in ushering in the new order faster than could ever have been imagined. It's breathtaking.

    What we're witnessing here is major league history in the making.



    Either that, or the old order is in such denial of its fate that it keeps doubling down to the point of human extinction. "If we can't win, we'll take the whole shit show with us". In that case we don't need to concern ourselves about the history books, do we?
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  9. #35
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Oh, how times have changed. Poland demands Germany to intervene with their tanks!
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Oh, how times have changed. Poland demands Germany to intervene with their tanks!

    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Oh, how times have changed. Poland demands Germany to intervene with their tanks!
    Strange days have found us.

    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  15. #38
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Putin Ally Warns New Anti-American 'Military Alliance' May Emerge

    Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev warned of a new anti-American military coalition amid growing tensions over the Ukraine war.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...21b96e598f6eec

    I'm surprised this even caught the light of day. Maybe the beginnings of cushioning the blow?
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  17. #39
    Senior Member Silly Wabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Thank you for the well thought out post there Silly Wabbit. I'm looking for people to think on their own, come up with their own thoughts on this matter as you did, as opposed to just finding videos of other people doing the thinking part and posting that as opinion/research.

    I'm gonna go through your post and respond accordingly, but with a reminder of what I'm really looking for here.



    Like I said Denise, I truly appreciate the time and effort it took you to lay all that out, but unless you can add some links pointing concretely at the points you make, it kind of boils down to the run of the mill "they're doing this and they're doing that". I'm looking for things I can actually touch so to speak, get my hands on, something I can show other people if need be and say "look, there it is in black and white, or here's the participants describing it directly about it as in the George H.W. Bush speech I posted.





    Okay, a secret society. Yes, there are many secret societies, and I don't doubt that a select few of them do exert influence on national, and world affairs, but neither you or I can put a finger on it for demonstration purposes. That's what I'm looking for.



    "They", who is they? There's corruption in law for sure, from the lowest levels to the highest levels, but that's also true for any other profession. I don't really see the language they use as being indicative, in and of itself anyway, as evidence of malfeasance. Most professions have their own language to greater or lesser extents.

    Now as I recall there's the whole "Maritime Law" angle, whereas there's America's courtrooms actually operate under Maritime Law or something of the sort, but someone would have to show me some evidence of that besides a Jordan Maxwell talk.



    A lot of people know the law, and I've seen a lot of really good lawyers get some average people out of some real tight jams. For that to be true to the extent society in general would erupt in revolt, just about every lawyer would not only have to be in on it, and keeping quiet about it. That's a lot of zipped lips.



    The first part there is well known, this nation certainly was stolen over the bodies of countless dead people.

    The second part, would begin involving actual institutions such as the Federal Reserve and the IRS. That's getting into the area of tangibles I'm looking for, and was going to get to later on, as in a World Order needs its institutions in which to operate, and enforce its dictates. Now I don't think having to pay taxes, in and of itself, is indicative of a grand conspiracy and/or enslavement, as someone has to pay for schools and highways for example, beyond the Federal Reserve printing money out of thin air. Beyond that though there is an argument there to be made, and I'm happy to hear it out by someone who really knows what they're talking about.



    See Above.



    Now there again, something like that I'd need to see some evidence of. I know there's that old revolving door between public and private, where elites stroll at their leisure back and forth and it's corrupt as hell, a totally rigged system, but I don't believe that almost every single mine in America is owned by one of these people. But hey, prove me wrong. I did a quick search and didn't see much pointing to that.



    According to the dictionary, we're not there yet.

    Police State:

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/police-state

    Not to say I don't have a lot of problems with our epically corrupt system, but by definition, we're not a police state. See the 1ST Amendment auditors I post about on occasion. You can't do that in a police state.



    Again, I hate to nitpick but who is "they"?

    Sorry Denise, I'm just not seeing where America has been "completely" taken over. We're certainly heading that way, have been for a long time, but someone needs to point me directly to where it's demonstrated that the take over is "complete".

    The U.S. Military Industrial Complex just fled Afghanistan with its tale between its legs against basically, a rag tag national militia. As a gun owner, surrounded by gun owners in this red state, and multiplied countless times across this country, I think the military would have hell to pay to try and occupy the whole place. They don't even have the numbers to do so with, and you'll need to point me to any private corporate police force that can do that job.



    As a world hegemon, part of the price for being so is expenditures overseas, and not to mention the military, at the cost of that money being spent here at home. There's also some really weird trade agreements that I don't quite understand as of yet, whereas if we suddenly stopped shipping our own oil overseas for example, that would trigger some trade clause for other countries to cease shipments of something they send to us. It's fucked up for sure!... Were it up to me, I'd nationalize a precious commodity like oil, and not leave it up to the greedy whims of private corporations and a rigged market. Same with health care.



    That goes hand in hand with how a world hegemon operates, a World Order, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the elites reap nearly all the spoils. I'm totally with you there!




    Well now we're going into the never ending culture war, but I'm only an observer of it, not a participant. That's certainly what one side of the culture war is adamant about, the right wing side of this great war which is also the side Project Avalon has planted their flag on, but that side is blinded by their own hand in it by doing many of the exact same things, like their own version of cancel culture. Much less the endless excuses flowing from that side over the January 6 debacle. "It was Antifa, it wasn't really that big of a deal, etc."

    I wish both sides would drop the divisive bullshit, and focus more on the common enemy that concerns them both.



    Of Note: As related to how this (long) post began, I realize that the thread title was too vague to serve my original intentions for the subject matter, so I've edited the title for a better fit
    Thank You Fred for breaking down exactly what you were looking for in the thread, and as responses.

    Unfortunately for me, my time is so short these days...

    I should have grabbed literature and information as I came across it myself, in my own research of such things over time.

    I will make some efforts to collect and save things that may be of significant value for such a purpose, as I do believe it is important people do learn what is going on.

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    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...21b96e598f6eec

    I'm surprised this even caught the light of day. Maybe the beginnings of cushioning the blow?
    Well done nugg, that's an interesting article.
    For me, I like BRICS a lot...........
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  21. #41
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Silly Wabbit View Post
    Thank You Fred for breaking down exactly what you were looking for in the thread, and as responses.

    Unfortunately for me, my time is so short these days...

    I should have grabbed literature and information as I came across it myself, in my own research of such things over time.

    I will make some efforts to collect and save things that may be of significant value for such a purpose, as I do believe it is important people do learn what is going on.
    The information is still out there. When you get a chance reel it back in and we'll discuss.



    Quote Originally posted by Lord Sidious View Post
    Well done nugg, that's an interesting article.
    For me, I like BRICS a lot...........
    That's a biggie, a big alternative where one never used to exist.

    And now we have the petro dollar in play. The US is freaking people out with the weaponization of money, finally jumped the shark so to speak, it may as well be yelling fire in a crowded movie theater. "If you can weaponize it like that against Russia, then you can do it to me as well".

    Saudi Arabia Is Ready To Discuss Ditching Dollar In Trade


    According to a Bloomberg report, Saudi Arabia is ready to discuss trading in currencies other than the US dollar, according to Saudi Arabia’s finance minister Mohammed Al-Jadaan.

    Al-Jadaan’s comments come a month after China’s President Xi Jinping said that Beijing is ready to make energy purchases in yuan instead of the US dollar in trade exchanges with members of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). China’s leader highlighted the necessity of the shift while speaking at a Chinese-Arab summit hosted by Saudi Arabia earlier this week.

    “There are no issues with discussing how we settle our trade arrangements, whether it is in U.S. dollar, in euro or in Saudi riyal,” Al-Jadaan said on Tuesday during an interview with Bloomberg in Davos, Switzerland.

    The oil-rich kingdom is seeking to deepen its ties with vital trade partners, including China. The readiness for talks on the issue expressed by Riyadh may signal that the world’s biggest oil exporter is open to diversifying away from the U.S. dollar after decades of pricing crude exports in the U.S. currency. The riyal, the Saudi national currency, has been pegged to the greenback, too.

    The trend towards the shift to national currencies that is recently being observed among the major participants in global trade chains is partially attributed to the policies of secondary sanctions that Washington is pursuing. Initially, the steps towards ditching the U.S. currency in trade, particularly in the energy sector, were intensified in the wake of the sweeping sanctions introduced by Western nations against Russia, one of the world’s major energy producers and exporters, over the military operation in Ukraine.

    China Setting New World Energy Order

    The global energy order is being reshaped as deepening energy ties between China and the Middle East signifies the rise of the petroyuan, which could challenge the petrodollar, the Financial Times reported on Wednesday, citing Credit Suisse analyst Zoltan Pozsar.

    According to Pozsar, China has been boosting purchases of crude and liquefied natural gas (LNG) from Iran, Venezuela, Russia, and some African nations using its national currency. However, President Xi Jinping’s meeting with the member states of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) in December marked “the birth of the petroyuan,” he said in a note to clients.

    At the summit, the Chinese leader confirmed that Beijing is ready to make energy purchases in yuan instead of the U.S. dollar with GCC countries.

    “China wants to rewrite the rules of the global energy market,” Pozsar said, adding that the move to de-dollarize the oil and gas trade is backed members of the BRICS alliance (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa).

    According to the Credit Suisse analyst, the steps towards ditching the greenback in the energy trade have intensified in the wake of the sweeping sanctions imposed by Western nations on Russia, one of the world’s major energy producers and exporters, in response to the military operation in Ukraine. Pozsar added that dollar foreign exchange reserves were militarized in the sanctions war, making the use of the currency unsafe for major exporters and importers of oil, gas, and other commodities.

    Cooperation between China and the GCC may potentially involve joint exploration and production in places such as the South China Sea, as well as investment in refineries, chemicals, and plastics.

    Pozsar said that implementing all of these projects in the yuan would mark a massive shift in the global energy trade. He added that even if it does not replace the dollar as a reserve currency, trading in the petroyuan will nevertheless come with significant economic and financial implications for policymakers and investors.
    https://countercurrents.org/2023/01/...llar-in-trade/



    The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want
    He makes me down to lie
    Through pastures green He leadeth me the silent waters by
    With bright knives He releaseth my soul
    He made me to hang on hooks in high places
    He converteth me to lamb cutlets
    For lo, He hath great power, and great hunger
    When cometh the day we lowly ones
    Through quiet reflection, and great dedication
    Master the art of karate
    Lo, we shall rise up
    And then we'll make the bugger's eyes water

    [Verse 3]
    Bleating and babbling, we fell on his neck with a scream
    Wave upon wave of demented avengers
    March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream
    Have you heard the news?
    The dogs are dead!
    You better stay home
    And do as you're told
    Get out of the road if you want to grow old
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  23. #42
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Prof. John Mearsheimer touches on the uncomfortable bottom line of great power politics: (less than one minute)
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zhpxKxRgIX0

    Ukraine chose to piss off the elephant next door, and get in bed with the elephant across the water, look where it's gotten them.

    Lesson time boys and girls. Be very careful around elephants.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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