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Thread: What The New World Order Is, What it Isn't, And Can It Be Demonstrated?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Why the alternative community thinks that George Soros and Klaus Schwab are some evil masterminds?


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpP6tiVm1N0


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-vHK3kO3wI
    Those are definitely a couple of strange cats, either one can be pictured as the kitty stroking villain in a James Bond movie. I guess that kind of brings us to maybe the next thing I was going to cover on this subject, that of institutions. A global order needs its institutions to keep the machinations of empire flowing smoothly, so we have the United Nations (UN), North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), European Union (EU), World Trade Organization (WTO), Group of Twenty (G20), International Criminal Court (ICC), and on down the line.

    The U.S. is by nature a liberal country, not in "liberal vs. conservative", but as in (supposedly) putting great value on human rights, and it's the commander and chief of the Liberal World Order. (It does and it doesn't put great value on human rights. It does when things are working smoothly, but it will ignore the rule book and ruthlessly shred them to bits when needed. With a smiley face and a handy cover story of course).

    The basic ideal behind this US led world order is that it wants to reshape the world in its own image, creating liberal democracies all over the place. Liberal democracies don't generally go to war with one another, so the ideal goes that we can all cooperate with each other on trade and such through the use of these institutions, and war should become all but obsolete because we're all to busy gaining wealth, and of course democracies don't war with each other.

    Now the U.S. as the hegemon of this world order enforces this, and it's ever expansive nature at the barrel of a rifle, and as the ruthless leader it has no problems in violating the rights of millions of people by killing them in the name of spreading democracy to their little corner of the world, but that's just the cold truth of the cost of doing business as the boss of the world. Sometimes you've gotta knock some heads together so to speak.

    Guys like Soros and Schwab are big on spreading the influence of these institutions of this world order, but in different ways. One of Soros' specialties in in helping ferment color revolutions, which of course are nothing but a nod and a wink polite substitute for the barrel of a gun, and we've seen these in places like Georgia and Ukraine. Hell, they even had one planned for Russia, the plans are probably laying around the cutting room floor waiting for the right set of circumstances again. Like politicians they use very flowery language, and by and large it works on those who can't recognize it for what it is. Like "nation building" as an example, is that really what it as?

    Klaus Schwab and the World Economic Forum are, by definition, more involved in the financial sector machinations of the Liberal World Order. Always keep to refining it, streamlining it, expanding its tentacles of influence to enrich those who play along, or if need be to strangle out any would be competitors.

    Much of China's sudden rise to power and influence is actually due to these world order institutions, the way they were to be absorbed into the "Community of Nations" (there's yet another term for it) was economic in nature. Grant them access to gain immense wealth through world trade institutions such as the WTO, get them hooked on the money hi of capitalism, and soon enough they'll just naturally turn into one big liberal democracy; of course with the caveat of having to bend the polite knee to the king of the hill, but a small price to pay and they would still enjoy tremendous power and influence.

    Only it didn't work that way, they have become rich and powerful, can afford a rapid military buildup, and they want their own seat at the table as equals. Maybe more in due time. The US is already recognizing the fact that it's no longer a uni polar world order with it solely in command, it's become a bi polar world order with the US in sole charge of the Western hemisphere, and China well on its way to being the same in its hemisphere. Thus the "Pivot to Asia", how to manage, and maybe even delay or ideally deter, that rapid rise to great power.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Has Russell Brand nailed who what where n when ?


  4. #18
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Putin eyeing a new, world order. For clarity, "golden billion" refers to the West, rulers of the current world order.

    President of Russia Vladimir Putin: Friends,

    I would like to begin by saying that I am very happy to be with you today.

    Through you, I would like to greet and thank all those who have submitted their proposals to the forum Strong Ideas for a New Time, to thank the team of the Agency for Strategic Initiatives for organising the forum, and to express appreciation for the work of our regions, which have contributed to the implementation of the ideas presented at the first ASI forum, held in late 2020.

    It is obvious that there is growing demand for the mechanism proposed by ASI for identifying, selecting and supporting civil projects and initiatives. As we were walking here with Svetlana Chupsheva, she said that, regrettably, an all-embracing and effective mechanism for selecting projects had not yet been created at the state level. But it is good that ASI is doing something like this. We will make increasingly broad use of this practice.

    This mechanism is fully consonant with the tasks of our internal development and the time when truly revolutionary transformations are gaining momentum and getting stronger. These enormous changes are irreversible, of course. National and global processes are underway to develop the fundamentals and principles of a harmonious, fairer and more community-focused and safe world order as an alternative to the existing world order, or the unipolar world order in which we lived, and which, because of its nature, is definitely becoming a brake on the development of our civilisation.

    The model of total domination by the so-called golden billion is unfair. Why should this golden billion, which is only part of the global population, dominate everyone else and enforce its rules of conduct that are based on the illusion of exceptionalism? It divides the world into first and second-class people and is therefore essentially racist and neo-colonial. The underlying globalist and pseudo-liberal ideology is becoming increasingly more like totalitarianism and is restraining creative endeavour and free historical creation.

    One gets the impression that the West is simply unable to offer the world a model for the future of its own. Indeed, it was no accident that the golden billion attained its gold and achieved quite a lot, but it got there not because it implemented certain concepts. It mainly got to where it is by robbing other peoples in Asia and Africa. That is how it was. India was robbed for an extensive period of time. This is why the elite of the golden billion are terrified of other global development centres potentially coming up with their own development alternatives.

    No matter how much the West and the supranational elite strive to preserve the existing order, a new era and a new stage in world history are coming. Only genuinely sovereign states are in a position to ensure a high growth dynamic and become a role model for others in terms of standards of living and quality of life, the protection of traditional values and high humanistic ideals, and development models where an individual is not a means, but the ultimate goal.


    Sovereignty is about freedom of national development, and thus, the development of every individual. It is about the technological, cultural, intellectual and educational solvency of a state – that is what it is. No doubt, responsible, active and nationally minded and nationally oriented civil society is the most important component of sovereignty.

    I am convinced that in order to be strong, independent and competitive, we need to improve the mechanisms for people to participate in the country’s life and to make them more open and fairer. That includes mechanisms for direct democracy and people's involvement in addressing the critical problems facing society and the public.

    The way forward is to rely on our people’s creative potential, to team up with you and people like you who are not with us today. How many thousands participated, did you say?
    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69039
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Oh dear we have two narratives straight away once again. lol, does it matter ?, is it important to take a side ?, is it worth while prepping ?, will Russians have to take four moneypox jabs also or the other side ?, gosh maybe time to find a nice quiet space n embrace nature and peoples one create happy n harmonic energies with.

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  8. #20
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  10. #21
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Again here's Putin, very clear eyed, describing the US led world order which has been in effect since the collapse of the Soviet Union around 1990. Before the collapse it was a bipolar world order, with the US and Soviet Union both the world's two competing hegemon's. What Putin appears to be looking at here is emerging victorious from the Ukraine proxy war against the US, with the US knocked a peg down in the international pecking order, Russia rising a peg or two, and having it no longer a "Liberal World Order" with the US as the unipole, uncontested hegemon, but a new multi polar world order consisting of still the US, but also Russia and China as competitors.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE25i5k5eWs


    This Biden administration official is looking at the situation in Ukraine in the exact opposite way, the Western point of view, which seeks to both militarily and economically put Russia out of the running for good, end of story end of competition. That's what he's talking about when he says "this is about the future of the liberal world order, and we have to stand firm". Meaning stand firm on the front lines of the economic war, the sanctions, which incidentally are backfiring.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOUEBgUTMEs


    So this is the bird's eye view which few people here in the US recognize, that it's not about political parties, as they both carry the flag of the liberal world order. This is why their foreign policies are so similar. But shhhhh, we don't talk about this dirty little secret in polite company...
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  12. #22
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    In July it was the Liberal World Order. The World Order according to the U.S. that is, the one that's constantly reenforced at the barrel of a gun, coups, regime change wars, etc..

    "Because we're the good guys, and just want what's best for everyone, whether they want it or not".

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOUEBgUTMEs


    It's also called the Rules Based International Order:

    “They seem to have much more similar visions of the world,” the official said, “and those are not really visions that are aligned with the rules-based international order that we and so many of our allies and partners believe is best for everyone.”
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...eef69c136cc426

    The Liberal World Order in a nut shell:
    As seen during the Cold War, it is hard to expand an ideological world order if another power has a competing ideology; therefore, the current liberal world order is possible only because the United States lacks a great power competitor. In the current unipolar system, compared to a bipolar or multipolar system, there is no competitor to challenge America’s ideologically based system. As John J. Mearsheimer argues, a US-led ideological liberal world order is possible only in a unipolar international system. According to Mearsheimer, “the sole pole has little reason to create a bounded order.” As great power competition returns, the American preferred world order may, in fact, come again to resemble the regionally-bounded one that existed during the Cold War.
    https://warroom.armywarcollege.edu/a...l-world-order/



    The U.S. doesn't want a multi polar world, its position as the uni pole is now being challenged, and that explains a lot about US bitterness towards one pure competitor (China), and another old world great power (Russia) that just doesn't seem to want to go away. Something must be done!

    Few people in the West in general can actually see this for what it is, the US looking to take out her top two competitors to firmly remain the world's uni pole power, but her competitors are certainly well aware of it:

    The West stokes conflict to preserve hegemony
    From inciting conflict in Ukraine and provocations around Taiwan to destabilizing the world food and energy markets, the US and its allies have been escalating tensions around the globe in recent years and especially in recent months, Putin said.

    “Ruling the world is what the so-called West has staked in this game, which is certainly dangerous, bloody and – I would say – dirty. It denies the sovereignty of countries and peoples, their identity and uniqueness, and disregards any interests of other states,” the Russian president explained. In their so-called “rules-based world order,” only those making the “rules” have any agency, while everyone else must simply obey.

    However, the West has “no constructive ideas and positive development, they simply have nothing to offer the world except the preservation of their dominance.”

    Rules for thee but not for me
    The West insists its culture and worldview should be universal, Putin said. While not saying it outright, they behave as if these values must be unconditionally accepted by everyone else.

    Yet when some other countries, notably China, began benefiting from globalization, the West “immediately changed or completely canceled” many of the rules it long insisted were set in stone and sacred, Putin said, with free trade, economic openness, fair competition and even property rights “suddenly forgotten at once, completely.”

    “As soon as something becomes profitable for themselves, they change the rules immediately, on the go, in the course of the game.”
    https://www.russia-briefing.com/news...b-speech.html/


    The U.S. government has been touting the so-called rules-based international order and portraying China as a threat to it, or "the only country with both the intent and power to reshape the international order." They might have forgotten that since modern times, the West has engaged in colonial expansion and aggression under the pretext of "international law" and "international order." Now, the hypocrisy and barbarism of the West have returned with a different name – the "rules-based international order." Such a self-defeating order with a skewed view on history and values does not withstand scrutiny.

    Alliance security over collective security

    The "rules-based international order" touted by the U.S. is a self-serving and exclusive order in favor of the interests of the U.S. and its allies. In 1945, the then U.S. President Harry S. Truman declared at a UN Conference in San Francisco, "If any nation would keep security for itself, it must be ready and willing to share security with all." But as soon as WWII ended, the U.S. reneged on Truman's words and founded NATO among other bilateral and multilateral alliances, seeking absolute security to override the collective security architecture. Successive NATO expansions eastward based on such a security concept sowed the seeds of the Ukraine crisis. Now the U.S. is even trying to create a "NATO in the Asia-Pacific" to encircle China.

    War-mongering over peace and stability


    The "rules-based international order" touted by the U.S. is an order that venerates violence and the law of the jungle. The U.S. keeps talking about its position of strength and enjoys flexing muscles. The country was at war in more than 224 years throughout its over 240 years of history, and in the remaining 16 years it was busy starting one. On almost all hot-spot issues, the U.S. is keen on exerting military pressure, war-mongering and sabotaging diplomatic negotiations. Yale University professor David Bromwich said bluntly that "the norms come from what the U.S. desires at a given moment... We are the most militarized of nations. With all the energy we can spare from arming ourselves, we sell weapons to help other people kill each other."

    'Universal values' over universal rules
    The "rules-based international order" touted by the U.S. is a dictatorial order based on American values. While the purposes and principles of the UN Charter are universal rules recognized by the world, the U.S. has repeatedly undermined them under the pretext of "universal values." In the name of "freedom and democracy," the U.S. instigated color revolutions and created turbulence in other countries to serve its own geopolitical agenda. Just like what American scholar Robert Kagan wrote in his book, "Americans say they want stability in the international system, but they are often the greatest disrupters of stability. They extol the virtues of international laws and institutions but then violate and ignore them with barely a second thought."
    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2022-10-1...2nS/index.html

    This is what it's all about.
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 29th October 2022 at 11:18.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  14. #23
    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    The "rules-based international order" touted by the U.S. is a dictatorial order based on American values. While the purposes and principles of the UN Charter are universal rules recognized by the world, the U.S. has repeatedly undermined them under the pretext of "universal values." In the name of "freedom and democracy," the U.S. instigated color revolutions and created turbulence in other countries to serve its own geopolitical agenda. Just like what American scholar Robert Kagan wrote in his book, "Americans say they want stability in the international system, but they are often the greatest disrupters of stability. They extol the virtues of international laws and institutions but then violate and ignore them with barely a second thought."

    This is what it's all about.
    So Americans are krooks. Even though they are a force to be reckoned with It never seems to amaze me how they appear to control and steer world events even in the eyes of thinking Americans.
    I know the purpose of this thread is to get a handle on what the new world order is. To find the truth in between all the fantasies out there.

    I personally think that if we find anything to openly discuss here. It's not it.
    Even though the liberal democratic ways have pierced the heart of many a western citizen most of those people before not too long ago wore a more left minded and willing to share than many a politician made it out to be. Propaganda and a lack of viable alternatives made it so that most no longer question.

    I for one no longer care who or what pretends to be a "leader" for a while. The true fascist 1984 like states are not going to happen.
    We're goaded and pushed to a life of productivity, entertainment and escapism.

    Within those boundries (which are by no means new) people will allways find ways to express themselves. And that's where it counts when we talk about what it means to be a human being.
    Anyhoe happy hunting for the next krook to point a finger at.
    Have a great day today

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  16. #24
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    The "rules-based international order" touted by the U.S. is a dictatorial order based on American values. While the purposes and principles of the UN Charter are universal rules recognized by the world, the U.S. has repeatedly undermined them under the pretext of "universal values." In the name of "freedom and democracy," the U.S. instigated color revolutions and created turbulence in other countries to serve its own geopolitical agenda. Just like what American scholar Robert Kagan wrote in his book, "Americans say they want stability in the international system, but they are often the greatest disrupters of stability. They extol the virtues of international laws and institutions but then violate and ignore them with barely a second thought."

    This is what it's all about.
    This is a misquote. The only part I said was "This is what it's all about" at the bottom, the rest is the opinions (well informed IMO) from a Chinese point of view.

    Quote Originally posted by Catsquotl View Post
    I know the purpose of this thread is to get a handle on what the new world order is. To find the truth in between all the fantasies out there.
    Well, yes and no. The question in the OP is more rhetorical, this is more documenting along the way what a world order actually is. There is no something called "The New World Order" made so popular in conspiracy circles that's coming to get us, that makes it sound like the name of a gang or something, but there surely are succeeding ruling orders throughout history. Up until just recently in historical terms has there been what could be called a world order, but there were well known regional orders such as China, Rome and Greece for example.

    Britain with her dominant navy in the 19th century was fairly close to being a unipole world order, as in "the sun never sets on the British Empire", so that could have been called "The New World Order". Post WW2 we had bipolar ruling orders in the Soviet Union and the United States, when the Soviet Union fell in 1991 that left just one nation essentially in charge of it all, the United States emerged as the sole unipole power, the new world order.

    And they intend to keep it that way, which is why you see that government freaking out over Russia and China looking for something else, something maybe not under the thumb of this current ruling world order, they're looking to form the next world order. The next succeeding world order, the newest most recent world order, would be tripolar consisting of the United States, Russia and China. The U.S. in intent on squashing the possible emergence of that new world order.

    So as I was quoted above: "This is what it's all about".

    In our current example, the illusion we're supposed to see is the US and her allies coming to save the day for poor little Ukraine. What's really happening is the rules based international order out to sacrifice every last Ukranian if need be to either bleed the competition dry, induce regime change, or best of all both. Then their eyes will turn to the next boogeyman, that hideous monster trying to squash poor lil Taiwan, I can hear the propaganda machine now just giddy to blast off on that one...


    Quote Originally posted by Catsquotl View Post
    Anyhoe happy hunting for the next krook to point a finger at.
    Anyhoe Eelco, you might want to do a little homework on the matter before being so flippantly dismissive like that again.

    If you don't think there's something called a "rules based international order", "liberal world order" "a new world order", or any other configuration of the same thing that's pulling a lot of strings around the world to mold it into just what it wants to see, and to maintain its supreme world dominance both economically and militarily, then you're not paying attention.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  18. #25
    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    This is a misquote. The only part I said was "This is what it's all about" at the bottom, the rest is the opinions (well informed IMO) from a Chinese point of view.

    So as I was quoted above: "This is what it's all about".
    my bad
    Anyhoe Eelco, you might want to do a little homework on the matter before being so flippantly dismissive like that again.
    Ok, I wasn't intentionally being flippantly dismissive, But I'l take it.
    My point really was this:
    Within those boundries (which are by no means new) people will always find ways to express themselves. And that's where it counts when we talk about what it means to be a human being.
    As for world orders and such...
    What you describe is a very western and even American take.
    In no way shape or form is what you describe or reference an indication of the way thing are for billions of people.
    And yes most of those will not live in a so called western world. Although very many many will.

    That said, I see, believe and think there is a world order, But some of the things I think about that were dismissed as being too flimsy to have substance.
    Or at least unspeakable for the purposes of this thread as documenting such this are hard.

    Is it the shadowy world of Free Masonry, where at the top of the pyramid we find the ever elusive Illuminati, along with its many tentacles from Bilderberg, to "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion?" We can eventually go there if need be, the late night Art Bell version, but for me anyway that's like watching a show on ghost hunters, never anything to really sink your teeth into like trying to gram a mirage, the closer you get to any kind of definitive conclusion, the more the sought after watering hole is just over the next sand dune.
    Feels like that in trying to get a clear documented picture the ingrained and (to me purposefully crafted dichotomy) will prevail again.

    So.
    Be kind, say what you will and don't take offense.
    seems a good way to deal with the razzle dazzle of the world stage at the moment.
    Last edited by Catsquotl, 29th October 2022 at 16:01.
    Have a great day today

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  20. #26
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Catsquotl View Post
    As for world orders and such...
    What you describe is a very western and even American take.
    In no way shape or form is what you describe or reference an indication of the way thing are for billions of people.
    Well man you can say that, just like you can say the sun actually did set on the British Empire, and it was just the British point of view that it didn't, but nations like India would correct you otherwise.

    Quote Originally posted by Catsquotl View Post
    And yes most of those will not live in a so called western world. Although very many many will
    You don't have to actually live within the physical bounds of empire, in order to be subjected to its dictates.



    This is not the shadowy realms of Art Bell reruns, it's very easy to find. These two guys don't have much of a Western view of the world, they certainly recognize who runs the current unipole world order, and are looking to make it a multi polar world order.

    From "The Manila Times":

    Xi, Putin urge Asia to join new 'world order'

    SAMARKAND, Uzbekistan: Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese leader Xi Jinping looked to rally Asian leaders behind a new "international order" as they met Friday for a summit aimed at challenging Western influence.
    https://www.manilatimes.net/2022/09/...-order/1858859
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  22. #27
    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Ok
    Have a great day today

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    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Funny I started watching Guillermo del torro's cabinet of curiosities last night.
    It's on netflix.
    Within the first 5 minutes of episode one.
    We see on TV the before mentioned bush speech withe the references to the new world order.
    Then a few scene's later something about immigrants on the radio where they take calls.
    No self righteous liberal <insert swear word's> were allowed to call.
    The first caller was named Fred.

    I felt that was synchronystimystic as F.
    Have a great day today

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  26. #29
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    That's funny!
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    In our current example, the illusion we're supposed to see is the US and her allies coming to save the day for poor little Ukraine. What's really happening is the rules based international order out to sacrifice every last Ukranian if need be to either bleed the competition dry, induce regime change, or best of all both. Then their eyes will turn to the next boogeyman, that hideous monster trying to squash poor lil Taiwan, I can hear the propaganda machine now just giddy to blast off on that one...
    Speaking of which, it was clear last December that the eyes were fixed on China, it just wasn't clear then (or not to me anyway) what the reason for this great power war would be. Of course we now know it will be over Taiwan.

    US Army General Mark Milley lays it out pretty clearly.

    He told the group of CEOs that President Xi Jinping said in a speech that he wanted China to achieve parity with the United States regionally by 2027 and to reach parity or superiority with the U.S. military by 2040.

    "That's an aspiration," Milley said to Gerald Seib, the Journal's executive Washington editor. "We're not going to stay still."
    China has grown its economy incredibly since 1979. The PLA has been a beneficiary of that growth. China has gone from a peasant-based, infantry army in 1979, "and they've developed a joint force in all of the domains in space and cyber in the traditional domains of land, sea and air," Milley said. "And they've modernized it. So they now have a very, very good capability. They have good capacity."

    The Chinese are developing a blue-water Navy, they are building fifth generation aircraft, they are developing submarine forces and they have built aircraft carriers. "They're moving and they're developing their capabilities," he said.
    Milley said an academic term for China would be "a rising revisionist power." China wants to revise the international rules-based order — primarily engineered by the United States and other Western powers in 1944-45.

    "China doesn't necessarily like all those rules, they don't want to blow them up, so they're not revolutionary," the chairman said. "They don't want to overturn them. But they do want to revise them to their own economic and political and diplomatic advantage. That presents a problem in geopolitics, it's a big problem with a rising power, and a status quo power like the United States."

    All this is complicated by the changes going on in the world. The Cold War was a bipolar world. Today, the world is at least "tripolar" or maybe more, the general said. "We're going into a world that is more complex, strategically, with a lot more variables," he said. "And we're entering into a world in which technology is advancing at a rate and a speed that has never been seen before in human history. So it's much more complex, [and] potentially more unstable. And it's going to take a significant amount of very, very competent, mature leadership to navigate our way through.

    ..."
    https://www.defense.gov/News/News-St...r-milley-says/

    We also had no idea at the time that the idea was to take down not just one, but both competing great powers, and we weren't privy to the "reason" for taking down Russia at the time either.

    This kind of thinking is a neocon's wet dream, that there shall be no equals, no negotiations.

    "There can be only one".
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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