A discussion on the validity of information sources

[Aianawa]

Graymail lol ok blackmail also ?? yes ?, imagine one having a judge or policeperson or congressional person, mmmimagine groups with agenda's, not just nazi's or feminists but ???.

[Aragorn]

Graymail lol ok blackmail also ?? yes ?, imagine one having a judge or policeperson or congressional person, mmmimagine groups with agenda's, not just nazi's or feminists but ???.

Blackmail? Hmm... In some cases, possibly, although I don't think it would be that widespread in politics, unless we're talking of a totalitarian regime. So for instance, in Russia under Putin, or in the Soviet-Union before him, or in countries like North Korea — although I believe that in the case of the latter, they will rather just assassinate a dissident than blackmail them.

Groups with agendas? Yes, absolutely. That's what the lobbies are all about. In the USA, you've got the firearms lobby, but in just about every western country — including the USA — there are gobs and gobs of other lobbies, from the various religious groups over environmentalist groups and animal rights groups, over the workers rights groups and their opponents of the (various) entrepreneurs/employers lobbies, over the financial-economic lobby groups, all the way up to the LGBTQ+ lobby, and so on. The list is long.

And like I said, if you're a politician and you're a member of a political party — as will be the case for most politicians in the western world — then you've also got your party leadership to answer to. The latter is especially the case here in Belgium, which is often called a particracy rather than a democracy. The only time that the opinion of the people counts is at election time. Several weeks before the election, your mailbox will be bombarded with political propaganda from each and every party — and not once for each party, but multiple times — with all of their alleged reasons and self-patting-on-the-back regarding why they think that you should vote for them and not for anyone else.

And then the people go and vote, and then when the circus is over, the parties just go and do as they please, because they've already made coalition agreements from before the elections, and then it's only a matter of negotiating between them which politician from which party gets what office. And it has already happened twice now in the last decade that the Belgian Federal Prime Minister left his office in order to become President of the European Union.

The first one of those two former Federal Prime Ministers — Herman Van Rompuy, of the Flemish Christian-democrats (CD&V) — hadn't even been elected as Federal Prime Minister, because Yves Leterme, the Christian-democrat who had been elected, had to resign due to a corruption scandal, namely interference from within his government into the judicial branch, and specifically with regard to the Dexia bank bailout. So Leterme had to resign, and instead of organizing new elections, the parties that had until then been in government simply got together again and assembled a new government. Some people were relieved of their office and others took their place, some were shuffled around to other offices, and so on.

Leterme himself was then replaced by Van Rompuy, although Van Rompuy had never been elected by the people — most people didn't even like him because of his moral corruption and his behind-the-scenes machinations within his own party. And then he left his position as Federal Prime Minister mid-term because he was offered the presidency of the European Union, with an annual salary of — back at the time — close to €300'000, plus another €2'000'000 "for expenses in the execution of his function". "Ideology, wazzat?"

Likewise, just before the corona crisis broke out, the Belgian Federal Prime Minister was Charles Michel, of the Walloon neo-liberal party (MR). But then he was offered the presidency of the European Union, and then he too left his position as Federal Prime Minister in order to accept that role.

Another such thing is that at every election here in the country, you see other people abandoning their roles — be it in the federal government, in a regional government, in the European Parliament, or even as mayor — to move into one of the other levels. It's all about their political careers, and some of them aren't even afraid of switching parties just so as to satisfy their personal career ambitions. I've seen it here in town, where a longstanding Christian-democrat left her party for the neo-liberals because her own party — which is the biggest party here in town and will always win the municipal elections here — wouldn't allow her to run for an executive office, while the neo-liberal party did.

Yet another thing, related to the above (and involving some of the same people) is that the political landscape over here is very much a family business. Charles Michel, mentioned above, is the son of former Federal Vice-Prime Minister and European Commissioner for Aid to Developing Nations Louis Michel. Herman Van Rompuy and his brother Eric Van Rompuy have long been the strongmen behind the scenes within the Flemish Christian-democrat party, and Eric's son is currently also a politician.

The city of Lokeren is often jokingly referred to as the Cremlin — with a "c" — because it's entirely dominated by the Christian-democrat former Federal Minister of Defense and current mayor of Lokeren Pieter De Crem and the members of his family.

And those are all but a few examples, because there's a lot more where all of that came from. Socialists, neo-liberals, Christian-democrats, Flemish-nationalists, the green party, it all doesn't matter; they're all the same, and they're all about themselves first, their party second, and the lobbyists next, and to hell with the actual people who voted for them.

[Aianawa]

Waste of time money and to kill if one can greymale.

Zzzz time, tired.

	Mod note: The following discussion was split off from the "[Disinformation] Wisest Woman On Earth, Found imo" thread.

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I don't see where I would be contradicting myself, Vern.

What I was saying is that this woman was originally on the right path — having become a scientist and helping people — until she allowed her mind to become corrupted by the lure of a career in politics, and especially so, politics of the far-right persuasion. From that moment on, she let conspiracy theories and political ambitions prevail over her education and common sense. She went from being a scientist to becoming an anti-scientific conspiracy theorist.

As such, no, I am most definitely not agreeing with her.

You did agree but not from your belief, perspective or truth, hers.

[Aragorn]

Now you are making no sense Aragorn, in fact i will allow you the option of going over your above post before further commenting, hint = you completely debunked yourself.

Not dissagreeing with you, am saying you are in a big said by you facet, TOTally agreeing with her, do you see this now on reflection ???.

I don't see where I would be contradicting myself, Vern.

What I was saying is that this woman was originally on the right path — having become a scientist and helping people — until she allowed her mind to become corrupted by the lure of a career in politics, and especially so, politics of the far-right persuasion. From that moment on, she let conspiracy theories and political ambitions prevail over her education and common sense. She went from being a scientist to becoming an anti-scientific conspiracy theorist.

As such, no, I am most definitely not agreeing with her.

You did agree but not from your belief, perspective or truth, hers.

I did not agree with her claims regarding Covid-19, Vern. I do agree that there is corruption, but — here's the irony — she should not be talking about how other people are corrupt when she has allowed herself to become equally corrupt in favor of her political agenda. She's lying through her teeth regarding the Covid-19 pandemic.

[Aianawa]

Your truth and her truth are both valid, we have had this disscussion before and i agree with this, you both having valid truth even though she is the expert when your both compared.

[Aragorn]

Your truth and her truth are both valid, we have had this disscussion before and i agree with this, you both having valid truth even though she is the expert when your both compared.

You are deliberately being obtuse, Vern. As has been explained to you only a thousand times already by now, there is no such thing as my truth, your truth and her truth. There is only the truth.

You have been shown evidence that this woman — for those new to the thread, we're talking about Dolores Cahill — has been (and still is) abusing her status as a scientist for spreading mis- and disinformation regarding the Covid-19 pandemic, and organizing lockdown parties at her privately owned castle, all within the spirit of the far-right political party she was a member of.

The woman has completely tossed her credibility as a scientist out the window, Vern. She's not "telling her truth", she is lying. There's a huge difference, and if you cannot see this, then I'm afraid there is no hope for you — just as I thought we were finally getting somewhere.



By the way, this thread is not about Dolores Cahill. That's why I've split off the discussion. Please try sticking to the topic, which is about how the information from certain sources cannot be trusted because those sources are corrupt — be it financially, ethically, or in whatever form possible.

[Emil El Zapato]

In my own opinion (and experience), the lobbyists, the sponsors, and the politicians' own career ambitions. Oh, and peer pressure of course — it is absolutely taboo to go in against the party line.

Social feedback loop ... it always resolves at the most fundamental level to right and wrong ... our responsibility to each other.

[Aragorn]

In my own opinion (and experience), the lobbyists, the sponsors, and the politicians' own career ambitions. Oh, and peer pressure of course — it is absolutely taboo to go in against the party line.

Social feedback loop ... it always resolves at the most fundamental level to right and wrong ... our responsibility to each other.

Probably more "loyalty" than "responsibility".

[Aianawa]

Social feedback loop ... it always resolves at the most fundamental level to right and wrong ... our responsibility to each other.

Nailed, party line, we seen it recently under both biden and Trump, is that being soul or human corrupted ?.

Nailed again that responsibility to each other but maybe pointless if one has not responsibility to oneself first, yes ?.

Still feeling into a reply to you Aragorn as feeling your force thinking me atm, also you are easily trggered by me being open or wishing open communication that you fear is not kosha imo.

[Aragorn]

Still feeling into a reply to you Aragorn as feeling your force thinking me atm, also you are easily trggered by me being open or wishing open communication that you fear is not kosha imo.

Well, if you consider my frustration over us having tried to talk sense into you for five years and you then manifesting that you're still not getting it "easily triggered", then I suppose I'm guilty as charged.

[Aianawa]

Well, if you consider my frustration over us having tried to talk sense into you for five years and you then manifesting that you're still not getting it "easily triggered", then I suppose I'm guilty as charged.

So you see n know where you were leading me Aragorn.

It was nice being shoulder to shoulder, then a divide happened, a separation with self validation even, all good but then the old hunt again started, game or just fun or needing self ritelochness feelzzzz ???.

Anyways i support your journey by being here , yes ?.

[Aragorn]

So you see n know where you were leading me Aragorn..

I wasn't leading you anywhere. I was merely explaining things to you. So were my colleagues. And for a moment there, we thought you finally understood what we've been trying to tell you all along. For a moment.

It was nice being shoulder to shoulder, then a divide happened, a separation with self validation even, [...]

That divide came from you, Vern, not from us. For a moment, you were on the same wavelength, and then you made a 180° turn.

...] all good but then the old hunt again started, game or just fun or needing self ritelochness feelzzzz ???.

There is no hunt and there is no game.

Anyways i support your journey by being here , yes ?.

I'm not on any journey, Vern. I am here to guide others on their journey, usually at the cost of my own wellbeing, and you're not making things any easier for me.

[Aianawa]

We appear to be in a shallow part of the lake fishing Aragorn, using similar bait, i applaud your casting, we can share bait ?.

[Emil El Zapato]

We appear to be in a shallow part of the lake fishing Aragorn, using similar bait, i applaud your casting, we can share bait ?.

It's not my place to 'advise' you Aianawa but as I used to tell my 'difficult' nephew if everyone is telling you that you are wrong then perhaps a little agonizing reappraisal is in order. Some of your beliefs are within the realm of possibility but you should simply abandon the ones that are not. I would start from your heart. Things that are socially maladjusted such as white supremacy. That's it actually, thinking that there is a vast conspiracy to get you, Aianawa is just a bad place to start. View life as if it were benign and then work outward from there. You will find an appropriate place to draw the line from reality at the juncture of fantasy. It is sort of like the crossing point between order -> chaos -> order. Chaotic thinking is not where one should be. The progression from order to chaos to order is a very real one.

[Aianawa]

Can i still be a dimensional warrior know thysurfing the noospheric arkeytypal highways while transmuting some walnuts sour and or spoilt dear advisor BNP ?.