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Thread: Those Who Chose Shaming Over Science

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Those Who Chose Shaming Over Science

    For the first 62 years of my life, I don’t recall anyone calling me a selfish idiot, much less a sociopath or a mouth-breathing Trumptard. All that changed when Covid rolled in and I expressed, ever so gingerly, a few concerns about the lockdown policies. Here’s a sampling of what the keyboard warriors threw back at me:

    Enjoy your sociopathy.
    Go lick a pole and catch the virus.
    Have fun choking on your own fluids in the ICU.
    Name three loved ones that you’re ready to sacrifice to Covid. Do it now, coward.
    You went to Harvard? Yeah, right, and I’m God. Last I checked, Harvard doesn’t accept troglodytes.
    From the earliest days of the pandemic, something deep inside me—in my soul, if you will—recoiled from the political and public response to the virus. Nothing about it felt right or strong or true. This was not just an epidemiological crisis, but a societal one, so why were we listening exclusively to some select epidemiologists? Where were the mental health experts? The child development specialists? The historians? The economists? And why were our political leaders encouraging fear rather than calm?

    The questions that troubled me the most had less to do with epidemiology than with ethics: Was it fair to require the greatest sacrifice from the youngest members of society, who stood to suffer the most from the restrictions? Should civil liberties simply disappear during a pandemic, or did we need to balance public safety with human rights? Unschooled in the ways of online warriors, I assumed the Internet would allow me to engage in “productive discussions” about these issues. So I hopped online, and the rest was hysteria.

    Village idiot, flat earther, inbred trash, negative IQ… Let’s just say that my thin skin got the test of a lifetime.

    And it wasn’t just me: anyone who questioned the orthodoxy, whether expert or ordinary citizen, got a similar skinburn. In the words of one community physician, who for obvious reasons shall remain anonymous: “Many doctors including myself, along with virologists, epidemiologists and other scientists, advocated a targeted approach and a focus on the most vulnerable cohorts of patients, only to be dismissed as anti-science, tin foil hat kooks, conspiracy theorists, antivax and other equally colorful disparaging labels.”

    Early in the game I decided I wouldn’t respond to such insults with more insults—not because I’m especially high-minded, but because mudslinging contests just leave me angry and it’s not fun to walk around angry all day. Instead, I took the shaming on the chin (and still walked around angry).

    The Shame Game
    The shaming impulse asserted itself right from the start of the pandemic. On Twitter, #covidiot began trending on the evening of March 22, 2020, and by the time the night was over, 3,000 tweets had coopted the hashtag to denounce poor public health practices. When CBS News posted a video of spring breakers partying in Miami, outraged citizens shared the students’ names in their social media networks, accompanied by such missives as “do not give these selfish dumbfucks beds and/or respirators.”

    In the early days of the pandemic, when panic and confusion reigned, such indignation could perhaps be forgiven. But the shaming gained momentum and wove itself into the zeitgeist. Also: it didn’t work.

    As noted by Harvard Medical School epidemiologist Julia Marcus, “shaming and blaming people is not the best way to get them to change their behavior and actually can be counterproductive because it makes people want to hide their behavior.” Along similar lines, Jan Balkus, an infectious disease specialist at the University of Washington, maintains that shaming can make it harder for people to “acknowledge situations where they may have encountered risk.”

    If shaming “covidiots” for their behavior doesn’t accomplish much, you can be sure that shaming people for Wrongthink won’t change any minds. Instead, we heretics simply stop telling the shamers what we’re thinking. We nod and smile. We give them the match point and continue the debate in our own heads.

    Gloves Off
    For two years I’ve been that person. I’ve smiled politely while dodging insults. To put my interlocutors at ease, I’ve prefaced my heterodox opinions with disclaimers like “I dislike Trump as much as you do” or “For the record, I’m triple-vaxxed myself.”

    Just today, I’ll allow myself to drop the pandering and call it as I see it.

    To everyone who dumped on me for questioning the shutdown of civilization and calling out the damage it inflicted on the young and the poor: you can take your shaming, your scientific posturing, your insufferable moralizing, and stuff it. Every day, new research knocks more air out of your smug pronouncements.

    You told me that without lockdowns, Covid would have wiped out a third of the world, much as the Black Death decimated Europe in the 14th century. Instead, a Johns Hopkins meta-analysis concluded that lockdowns in Europe and the US reduced Covid-19 mortality by an average of 0.2%.

    What’s more, long before this study we had good evidence that anything less than a China-style door-welding lockdown wouldn’t do much good. In a 2006 paper, the WHO Writing Group affirmed that “mandatory case reporting and isolating patients during the influenza pandemic of 1918 did not stop virus transmission and were impractical.”

    You told me that social interaction is a want, not a need. Well, yes. So is good food. In truth, social isolation kills. As reported in a September 2020 review article published in Cell, loneliness “may be the most potent threat to survival and longevity.” The article explains how social isolation lowers cognitive development, weakens the immune system, and puts people at risk of substance use disorders. And it’s not like we didn’t know this before Covid: in 2017, research by Brigham Young University professor Julianne Holt-Lunstad determined that social isolation accelerates mortality as much as smoking 15 cigarettes per day. Her findings splashed the pages of news outlets around the world.

    You told me we need not worry about the effects of Covid restrictions on children because kids are resilient—and besides, they had it much worse in the great wars. Meanwhile, the UK saw a 77% increase in pediatric referrals for such issues as self-harm and suicidal thoughts during a 6-month period in 2021, in relation to a similar stretch in 2019. And if that doesn’t shake you up, a World Bank analysis estimated that, in low-income countries, the economic contraction ensuing from lockdown policies led 1.76 children to lose their lives for every Covid fatality averted.

    You told me that vaccinated people don’t carry the virus, taking your cue from CDC director Rachel Walensky’s proclamation in early 2021, and we all know how well that aged.

    You told me I had no business questioning what infectious disease experts were telling us to do. (I’m paraphrasing here. What you actually said was: “How about staying in your lane and shutting the eff up?”) I got my vindication from Dr. Stefanos Kales, another from Harvard Medical School, who warned of the “dangers of turning over public policy and public health recommendations to people who have had their careers exclusively focused on infectious disease” in a recent CNBC interview. “Public health is a balance,” he said. Indeed it is. In a 2001 book called Public Health Law: Power, Duty and Restraint, Lawrence Gostin argued for more systematic assessments of the risks and benefits of public health interventions and more robust protection of civil liberties.

    So yeah. I’m upset and your finger-wagging posse left me alienated enough that I had to go looking for new tribes, and in this quest I’ve been rather successful. I have found more kindred spirits than I could ever have imagined, in my city of Toronto and all over the world: doctors, nurses, scientists, farmers, musicians, and homemakers who share my distaste for your grandstanding. Epidemiologists, too. These fine folks have kept me from losing my mind.

    So thank you. And get off my lawn.

    Author

    Gabrielle Bauer
    Gabrielle divides her time between writing books, articles, and clinical materials for health professionals. She has received six national awards for her health journalism. She has written two books—Tokyo, My Everest, co-winner of the Canada-Japan Book Prize, and Waltzing The Tango, finalist in the Edna Staebler creative nonfiction award—and is working on two more.

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Well, time proved the pandemic was one part ordinary pandemic but mostly media generated panic on behalf of big Pharma, shadowy governments, the WEF, who knows beyond that. One of the biggest psy ops I’ve observed to date coming from the usual suspects. More time will reveal more. The shamers who don't have enough shame to admit their shameful behavior will, in the end, suffer the most. That's already started. They are so far gone many are not even aware they are suffering so great is their denial. Their emotional support agencies, the CDC and FDA are pulling the rug out from under them and abandoning them.

    The CDC and Big Pharma are back pedaling away from the narrative faster than I can keep up with. Bottom line: Oh people misinterpreted our advice and caused all this.

    I can take the slander because it in no way equates to the damage so many people--thousands, millions, billions have suffered--- deaths that could have been prevented, prolonged illness, the elderly killed in their care homes by unnecessarily forcing sick people into the facilities, dying alone and scared. People struggling with cancer because they couldn't procure appropriate care with the obsession with Covid, or otherwise had their health triaged away, loss of jobs, coworkers, friends and family (if not by Covid, by vaccine rebound or hostility and slander) loss of life time professions, loss of early development, rampant depression, and anxiety, suicides, escalating overdoses, children and young adults dying of old people conditions like strokes and heart attacks (Normal. All normal!) economic loss, loss of businesses, jobs, family, friends leaving the nation with a lack of medical professionals, and military personnel. The slander is a means of justifying their scorched earth policy participation in what is increasingly seen as a Nuremburg type of criminal mentality. But being slandered is in no way, for me, comparable to the pain, horror and suffering of the victims of the slanderers whose need to virtue signal was far greater than their compassion or concern for their fellow humans. You could not even explain that some people had preexisting conditions that prohibited from any sort of treatment that might further impair their health. Nope. They were hateful evil people.

    Mirror, mirror.

    I am sad and I have regrets not guilt. I’ve friends and family members who have died, are chronically ill now and suffered devasting loss of cognitive ability who basically slandered so much you really couldn’t much rouse any sympathy for their current condition. I gave them what they refused others. A nice big, I guess you know what you are doing.

    But they don’t.

    Gratefully those nearest and dearest to me, we had each other’s support in refusing to succumb to medical tyranny, and we are all sound and happy. No guilt, no shame, over participating in yet another witch hunt reminiscent of the 1930’s

    You and I, we have an empty label that has been parroted so much in the echo chamber that it lost all meaning. You haven’t lost anything except for some dead baggage. The Slanderers are Covid victims too no matter how vaxxed and virtuous they are. They lost their humanity and their credibility and their mental health. Now they will just hate you for not being a victim, and perversely being upright and healthy.

    Those folks have blood on their hands. They know it too. The mayhem isn’t over yet. They will slander to cover up their participation, and they may resort to worse. We have seen that happen before too and recently.

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    I think it's tragic how society has factionalized itself into walled off camps of "Right Think/Wrong Think, Us vs. Them". It originates from prime directive establishment narratives (i.e. Right Think), casting anyone not of the hive mind (i.e. wrong think) as almost less than human, but then comes full circle when the anti-establishment crowd reciprocates in kind. The endless dehumanization loop.

    There needs to be some sort of middle ground, some common area of mutual respect where a real conversation can be had somewhere in between "Lockdown Lucy", and "get that diaper off your face". Same can be said for other subjects.

    By the way welcome to the forum.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I think it's tragic how society has factionalized itself into walled off camps of "Right Think/Wrong Think, Us vs. Them". It originates from prime directive establishment narratives (i.e. Right Think), casting anyone not of the hive mind (i.e. wrong think) as almost less than human, but then comes full circle when the anti-establishment crowd reciprocates in kind. The endless dehumanization loop.

    There needs to be some sort of middle ground, some common area of mutual respect where a real conversation can be had somewhere in between "Lockdown Lucy", and "get that diaper off your face". Same can be said for other subjects.

    By the way welcome to the forum.
    Thanks for the welcome.

    It is tragic. And there is a middle ground between Lockdown Lucy and Get the Diaper off your face. But it's based on your word respect. Respect for established health and medical practices and proven disease containment procedures....which were all tossed out the window. Along with the respect.

    Then the tragedy/ comedy started. The virus is racist, transphobic, homophobic. And it could drill its way up your shoe soles and infect you that way. The virus then achieved supernatural and human attributes.

    Then the crowd mobbing started, where people revert to animal states like beasts driven mad by panic and fear and perhaps pain. Charge of the pain bodies. I guess some people refer to it as herd mentality.

    No respect or common ground is possible then sadly enough.

    But it's all falling out and revealing itself in the wake of the tragedy. Clearly someone knows somewhere they were in the wrong if media has to start making appeals to excuse the appalling behaviors we are still witnessing Covid Amnesty. That's an admission of guilt. People are not going to forgive easily if ever.

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    It is tragic. And there is a middle ground between Lockdown Lucy and Get the Diaper off your face. But it's based on your word respect. Respect for established health and medical practices and proven disease containment procedures....which were all tossed out the window. Along with the respect.
    While there's much truth in that, it also takes two to tango, the other team played it's own role in one of the great divisions of our time with its own unscientific nonsense. Remember the good old days of shedding, magnetization, the Nazi like notion of purebloods, and resorting to feats of incredible mental gymnastics in order to square the circle on their orange haired messiah's public endorsement of a vax that's responsible for a supposed slow rolling genocide?

    I even had the founder of Project Avalon chastise me in no uncertain terms that posting I had gotten the original two vaccines, and suffered no ill effects in response to an open question about such, was tantamount to negligent homicide. Pffffft, fucking really? The totalitarian type mindset is not just a play thing of the original narrative, it's equal opportunity.

    So "Team Establishment" merrily demonizes and dehumanizes anyone who questions or refuses the vax, while "Team Anti-Establishment" merrily demonizes and dehumanizes anyone who takes the vax, or doesn't join the bandwagon against it. Never the two shall meet, zero respect coming from either, just two teams duking it out to the death on the great culture war field of battle.

    Both well assured deep in their heart of hearts that their position is bullet proof, 100% accurate, and not to be questioned. Us and Them, the good guys vs. the bad guys.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Hi n Welcome, nowadays i see that pic-meme, half a dead tree, and at present if one could represent that tree as Earth, Earth is insping and inspiring a gentle winter a head. And n but like your beginning words above post, 20 - 23 will be abrupt pain for many as real lising n micro self healing mindy wise is pushed by the macro also, with self reCOGnition an exxynential gathering wave, like many of the most angry and non minded living in a caravan ( am in a caravan atm lol ) have no care but to fast down or upgrade their living quarters fast n start working with n on their water, thankfulllly that caravan will rust slowly but visibly.

    Feel DB , whomever you be, would delite with us a thread or two of your own ?.

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    While there's much truth in that, it also takes two to tango, the other team played it's own role in one of the great divisions of our time with its own unscientific nonsense. Remember the good old days of shedding, magnetization, the Nazi like notion of purebloods, and resorting to feats of incredible mental gymnastics in order to square the circle on their orange haired messiah's public endorsement of a vax that's responsible for a supposed slow rolling genocide?

    I even had the founder of Project Avalon chastise me in no uncertain terms that posting I had gotten the original two vaccines and suffered no ill effects in response to an open question about such, was tantamount to negligent homicide. Pffffft, fucking really? The totalitarian type mindset is not just a play thing of the original narrative, it's equal opportunity.

    So "Team Establishment" merrily demonizes and dehumanizes anyone who questions or refuses the vax, while "Team Anti-Establishment" merrily demonizes and dehumanizes anyone who takes the vax, or doesn't join the bandwagon against it. Never the two shall meet, zero respect coming from either, just two teams duking it out to the death on the great culture war field of battle.

    Both well assured deep in their heart of hearts that their position is bullet proof, 100% accurate, and not to be questioned. Us and Them, the good guys vs. the bad guys.
    Yep there's a lot of back and forth and people are totally convinced only their side could be noble and right. And Science is overrun with carpet baggers and speculators with get rich quick ideas that upset the standardized apple cart but the individual can circumvent that if they are truly earnest about a solution. I don't know how many pharma commercials I've heard. The list of side effects the treatment causes. Sounds worse than the disease.

    Same with the allegedly noble conspiracy theorists. On a personal level though, I can't police people and say get vaxxed don't get vaxxed, In your case if you got vaxxed and suffered consequences who do you harm but you and your own. Negligent suicide? Dead virus vaccines can shed. mRNA viruses can't shed spike proteins without someone noticing. Conversely if someone didn't get vaxxed then same thing. It's on them. Orange man intro'd the vaccine but he didn't mandate it. Maybe he would have eventually. That came later. That's wrong too. Some people just can't be vaxxed. It is observable now the virus effects people differently and so does the vaccine. Same with the masks. You are only risking yourself. Do it right or don't do it.

    The reality is some people got damaged from the vaccine, some people found it beneficial some people didn't get Covid 19. Also the reality is some people didn't get vaxxed and didn't get Covid 19. What I don't understand is if all of it is working as promised, the vaccine and the mask why people are so still frightened of the disease they persist in attacking others. Vs those who are vaxxed and don't attack others. Both are more basic realities.

    The question I would ask for the sake of authenticity is if you are unvaxxed how many people have physically confronted you in real life compared those online?

    And for the vaxxed I would ask the same. In real life how many people have confronted you about your vaccine status in real life compared to online?

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    And how many of the many sides but lets say the main two opposing, have just shut up, put head down ( lol or up ) carry on ....... until F must act, as info n data negate the beginning created narrative, happening xponetialllly atm, certainly that meme of unsafe to walk the streets, any streets, may appear truish.

    Fear for some, both sides , saying, enough, am gone, bloody harsh realities happening atm. Then add or not, the 2 or 3 0r 4 year after side effects of experiment jabby.

    Thank goodness the massive imo positive is that they, the theys failed.

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    The theys presented the fear programming for Covid in a sly, slanted way. It was opaquely disguised under the badge of safety. The more I think about it the less I regard that as just destructive. Infantile in a Lord of the Flies sort of way.

    As of this date, there are enough reports of vax damage to pull it from the market, and the FDA says they were deceived about the vaccines, but still haven't pulled it from the market, and will not pull from the market yet the vaccines to date have not caused the sort of mass damage that the lockdowns and other containment procedures did imposed on us before the vaccine was even introduced. I'm not endorsing the vaccine, because I will not get one myself I'm in no position to encourage others to do. I'm just being realistic.

    Realistically speaking. Now unvaxxed people are unsafe and so are vaxxed people depending on your POV but are they healthy?

    Isn't that the point? Health?

    Nothing was done for health. It was done for safety. All of it. From ground zero to today it's all about safety not health. Physical health, mental health, palliative care health, early developmental health, end of life health, emotional health. What suffered most from all of this was our spiritual health. The general plot was to attack a virus, not preserve health. because the virus is found in people, then people have to be attacked. Because the killer vax is found in people the people have to be attacked. Anything healthy like zinc, selenium, dietary change and disinfectant therapy was scoffed at.

    Realistically: Disinfectant therapy which I found most singularly helpful is not a Trump thing, it's just a thing. Putting chlorine bleach into city water supplies made bleach drinking a thing. Realistically.

    There was tragedy and comedy at workplaces as Covid safety collide with workplace safety neither of which produced healthy results. Or actual safety.

    Now people may be Covid free. Or not. Certainly, though we are collectively unhealthier now mentally, spiritually, emotionally and that effects physical health, all unhealthy. And judging from the attacks and slander, still not feeling safe. They are attacking an invisible enemy now. A virus that may or may not be lurking in people's bodies and a vaccine lurking in people's bodies now. The virus nor the vaccine will get in a heated control drama debate and it cannot be controlled by the usual methods of getting rid of someone we fear like crowd mobbing, bullying, slander, banning, doxxing, cancel culture so people have to attack each other.

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    What a Beautifullll xmassy pressy day for me it is, .COM text this morn now realised ( POV proven ) and the honour of landing on present property and becoming part of several but one family, with my boy.
    Of course do ponder the steps to hear, and but and this site is PAPA's renegaids ( project avalon forum disscards etc plus ) which then bounded ahead with blue chickens arrival, sense a revival, or not.

    Backitty on track, the now - won imo means now dots everywhere on the narratives ? yes, attacks stop because of why ?, over what length of time ?, as we know the Question = Won - noW , though the future, the answer is N can only be NOW, that dot between past n future. ( trying not to now type, for comprehendings ).

    As the invisible enemy as you call it ( oh we may get some Papa site interest i feel, here lol ) strikes again and again, yes being either iether, the ones on %'s remaining in good heath will actualllly be the virus n or vaxxy inlighteners ?, that the jist ?.

    Thankyou for presenting yourself, blessings

    What a Beautifullll xmassy pressy day for me it is, .COM text this morn now realised ( POV proven ) and the honour of landing on present property and becoming part of several but one family, with my boy.
    Of course do ponder the steps to hear, and but and this site is PAPA's renegaids ( project avalon forum disscards etc plus ) which then bounded ahead with blue chickens arrival, sense a revival, or not.

    Backitty on track, the now - won imo means now dots everywhere on the narratives ? yes, attacks stop because of why ?, over what length of time ?, as we know the Question = Won - noW , though the future, the answer is N can only be NOW, that dot between past n future. ( trying not to now type, for comprehendings ).

    As the invisible enemy as you call it ( oh we may get some Papa site interest i feel, here lol ) strikes again and again, yes being either iether, the ones on %'s remaining in good heath will actualllly be the virus n or vaxxy inlighteners ?, that the jist ?.

    Thankyou for presenting yourself, blessings

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Mmmm this soltice here, in NZ, has produced, n likely world wide, a synchronicity leap, stronger Now creates imo stronger experiences of Synchronicities, just the two posts above timestamps of 14.14 followed by 07.07 for considered sensing.

    Fun times, happy rituals now ahead all, got a new computer today for when this ones totalllly discarded all glue n tape lol.

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Mmmmm how do we, or does one, get around shaming now, the shamers of past, especialllly if they have not caught on yet ?, what options are there, the i told you so is just not on in the and these times, maybe this that can be a gentle process somehow ?.

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Shaming is a form of manipulation used to induce unwarranted guilt, and to get their way about something. It's used in debates (ad hominin attacks) to win the argument when the shamer has no argument or basis. And it depends on if you know the person or not. They seek to destroy character and reputation because that makes them safer not society. People online are one thing and that's where I find it the most. And how well you know not just think about the precepts of self-mastery in terms of you do not have to tolerate toxic people. At all. Family members, friends, coworkers. Purge them from your life. That is not mean cruel or carelessness to thumb your nose at them. Ignore them because really they are just a energy suck. These people are always emotionally undeveloped. Putting your foot down like you do with a 4-year-old injures them deeply. So does laughing at them. Boundaries. They always try to go out of bounds. Their arguments are usually juvenile and more like Because I Said So type arguments. They are not very deep people they just have effed up infantile emotions. The Butter is Racist crew. Actually I have woke family members that live in close proximity to me. I'm moving. They need me more than I need them because I don't need them at all. They are a total energy and resource suck.

    Wokeness doesn't have any political boundaries.

    Woke conservatives are as bad as woke liberals. Usually the cons are older people. Both of them are capable of not just emotional violence but physical violence. Not because you returned fire, but because you didn't. Their frustration at not being able to beat you down will get out of control in some. They want you hurt or dead and a lot of times that is strictly from ignoring them. Literally saying or doing nothing. It drives them crazy. They need to evolve from abuser to victim. And they need dozens of people on their side. I've seen older or elderly coworkers physically attacked at work, something that never happened until the woke brigade got their own office in HR. It was a pleasure to watch the people the woke crowd came to protect (gay and black people ) turn on them. The woke folks failed to realize they were not just gay and black people and everyone else was a white supremist. They failed to realize we were a team. WE is the biggest stronghold you can have .

    It's really just how much intestinal fortitude an individual has to address them. Their behaviors are all the same and I find them boring. I don't respond to even innocent seeming engagement because its usually not. I'm always wary when they come along wanting a conversation they usually don't. It's a way to draw you in to a conflict. And basically some people are so lacking in substance I barely notice them anyway.

    Some can't stomach it or feel guilty for being in the conflict at all. It all depends on your moral compass and grit. I mean I know its tempting to make an ass out of them but they don't get it. It's not like their going to get a moral lesson from it.

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    Aianawa (28th December 2022)

  25. #14
    Senior Member Canada
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    It's not a black and white issue, but if I were to boil it down to its essentials, most Canadians feel that public safety during a pandemic trumps individual freedom. During a pandemic, we truly are 'all one.'

    There is a lot of confused messaging coming from governments but drug companies have made it clear for a few years that the vaccine would be highly effective for the first wave, not so much for delta and even less for future variants.

    At this point I am no longer getting boosted as I had too strong a reaction to the last booster I had and the cost/benefit of getting it now, weighs more on the cost side, due to side effects. I would rather catch a variant, provided it's not too virulent.

    I was familiar with ivermectin way before most people as I was on a forum dedicated partly to inform about vaccines and ivermectin and the FLCCC. It may have been before the FLCCC was formed. I was going to forgo vaccines and opt for ivermectin, but due to my own health issues, I had to clearly establish whether ivermectin could possibly cross the blood brain barrier, for one.

    What I found after querying the forum leader who is best buddies with Pierre Kory, was nothing. They weren't looking into it. The forum and Kory ended up too, using information that turned out to be, not just wrong but WAY wrong, about Uttar Pradesh and how well they did with ivermectin. Also wrong about Japan and its experience with the drug for covid.

    It took me at least a year to get enough clarity on all this to make a choice. I could see a unwarranted general consensus on ivermectin forming in right wing circles along with a lack of cynicism about the perverse incentives motivating alt media personalities, like Russel Brand.

    The alt media personalities have made way more money than any drug company executive, on this subject. To dismiss that, isn't approaching the vaccine topic objectively, imo.

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    Aianawa (1st January 2023)

  27. #15
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Gosh Octy, Dia Be is ? , sorta saying it is ?, balck n white = manipulation, could be incorrect though ?.

    Yes spose there is many facets, good to see you , smiles.

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to Aianawa For This Useful Post:

    Octopus Garden (1st January 2023)

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