The Bickering Gateway to and from The Shire

[Gio]

"I've Got You Under My Skin"

The Four Seasons

♪ Don't you know you never can win
Use your mentality, wake up to reality
But each time I do, just the thought of you
Makes me stop before I begin ♪

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jVUk_iPZyc

[Silly Wabbit]

I have to say, you guys can be brutal when it comes to Bill, and I feel for anyone on the receiving end of that... (Even if your memes are sometimes very funny......) But remind me never to get on your bad sides! But you all feel your own way about such things... I will not get in the middle of that.

I will stop short of defending anyone, as we are all grown adults here... As well as at PA. But I see this as a community, a rather large one, that accompanies many sites, platforms and such. And having said that, it is reasonable that one could talk about another site, on this one, as it is done there at PA as well...

I think the difference between PA, and say Facebook or Twitter, is that PA was created as Camelot was. By one person, as their creative method of becoming a part of the community... (Or keeping their involvement active)...

While PA is a forum in structure, Camelot is more Kerry's personal site to share. Bill invited everyone to participate, but I do believe that he felt when doing so, that he would have the ultimate say over what stays and what goes, and what would be allowable...

Just as on my own facebook profile, if someone posts something that doesn't reflect my own beliefs, I do not let others see that post on my home page... It isn't who I am, nor does it in any way reflect what I believe as an individual, or how I wish others to perceive me should they visit my page...

At least when Bill makes adjustments, he makes room for other personal beliefs with a caption that suggests that this isn't necessarily his beliefs, but allows such things to remain to reflect the opinions of others. Scientology or not, that is more than I would allow on my own site...

I was not a member at PA1. I cannot speak to that... But I find it interesting that Gio mentioned that members there had a sense that PA would change...

So this leads me to ask... Did Bill ever promise to hand over his site to the masses, without interference? Was this a difference of opinions over what the site actually fundamentally was? Or did it evolve to what Bill had hoped it would become, and surprise those that thought it was all together going to evolve into something different?

I ask because it baffles me why some people who were original members, now see the "New" PA as a bastardization of the original concept, while newer members such as myself see it as something that is evolving and flexing over time.

If I had been sharing interviews such as Bill and Kerry originally had, and then split ways and created a forum, I would hope that those posting within it, were of like mind in the way that they did so... What I have been seeing as of late, was Bill trying to guide the site more towards a library of knowledge, rather than the Jerry Springer show it was slowly progressing to.. And it was...

I think the most recent example of that was the Kevin Moore, Mark Richards thread. I am sure that the thread got more views than any while it was actively being posted to... And for obvious reasons. There was almost like two sides, one wanting Kerry to recognize how ridiculous her claims were, and then those who wanted someone to state the obvious...

But it got to a point where I myself, couldn't help but see it as it was... A train wreck... And like I would do for my own grandchildren, I began to post comments that would help Kerry, rather than jump on the attack bandwagon. I then asked the community if anyone else was even trying to offer her some help in the way she presented her material, that would alleviate the claims that she was promoting flat out lies as facts... A middle of the road solution...

In fact, I believe I told her that had she done nothing more than had a disclaimer that Mark Richards testimony was his "Claims" of being this or that, rather than presenting him as a factual "super soldier" of some sort, that perhaps a lot of this conflict would stop. And she would need not even have to get to the point where she was calling her own audience stupid for not believing her work.

Granted, it was a little too little, a bit too late... But I tried... At least I left that thread knowing I had tried to help in some small way, to keep the community in a friendly atmosphere. And perhaps helped a few newbies understand that it wasn't what Kerry was presenting (entirely), but also, how she did it that truly mattered, and raise awareness to the words that people use when presenting information, that can make all the difference.

I suppose I am just asking because it seems that there is such deep seeded feelings about all of this, I feel like I am missing something entirely, and perhaps it is locked somewhere within PA1 that I never was a part of?

[Gio]

I will not get in the middle of that.

[Emil El Zapato]

I originally joined PA in 2012 and that may have been already post PA1, but I was shocked from nearly day 1 by the opinions and content that I saw. It quickly went downhill from there. In retrospect I thought if you really want people so debased as these why would you even have that silly 'application'. A quick and simple tell me about yourself would have sufficed. I'm sure a F*ck you would have been a common response. In truth, that is a salesman's ploy. Make the mark feel like it is important that you 'pass this test'.

But as before, I never had a problem with Billy Bob but since recognize the 'degenerate' nature of the forum. And to be sure it isn't total but those making the most noise are the worst whack jobs running the range of disordered personalities, brain processes, and whatever else there can be.

[Fred Steeves]

I have to say, you guys can be brutal when it comes to Bill, and I feel for anyone on the receiving end of that... (Even if your memes are sometimes very funny......) But remind me never to get on your bad sides! But you all feel your own way about such things... I will not get in the middle of that.

Well first off Denise, I for one greatly appreciate you trying to appeal to everyone's best side, both here and over yonder. Wanting for cooler heads to prevail is a graceful space to be occupying, and I think you'd make a real good mod!

Let me see if I can try and explain this obvious mess you're looking at, so that maybe you can at least understand it a little better. Having only been a member of PA since 2019, there's a lot of water under the bridge, and gone the way of the disappearing boat wake before you got there.

A lot of shit's gone down at that place over the years, often times very nasty shit, and the way Captain Nill tends to treat people was/is often the source for that.

Hey let's face it, a lot of us wind up getting kind of addicted to forums, they can become a nice home away from home and a place to freely share things that really can't be shared elsewhere, so when people suddenly find themselves banned with their names often times being drug through the mud once they're gone and without a voice, it tends to stick in their craw just a bit.

Not saying this is everyone by any means, but enough that they would easily match, or even exceed, the number of current members posting there. There's a bunch of them out there! You'd never know that that looking at the numbers here, because most of them wind up just taking their own path off into the sunset as the other competition forums for "misfits" that popped up along the way eventually failed.

This is the only one left out of many, last man standing so to speak.

Anyway, at times when an old thread pops up, notice all the names in dark that are no more. What happened to them? Some of them deserved it, some didn't, but with the ones that didn't deserve it you'll never know, because there's no trace from their posting history as to what went wrong.

Don't get me wrong, because people being people it's happened here too, every forum has that. But every forum doesn't have the ever present residual bitterness left behind that The Project does, and there are reasons for that.

[Catsquotl]

This is the only one left out of many, last man standing so to speak.

https://mistsofavalon.forumotion.com/forum still exists.
As does. http://earthempaths.net/forum/phpBB3/index.php.

I think there may be a few others that came into being after one of the numerous exoduses from that place.
I think the reason ToT didn't spun one is the lack of a common enemy.

[Aragorn]

https://mistsofavalon.forumotion.com/forum still exists.
As does. http://earthempaths.net/forum/phpBB3/index.php.

I think there may be a few others that came into being after one of the numerous exoduses from that place.
I think the reason ToT didn't spun one is the lack of a common enemy.

We did spin one — Eye-Rise — albeit that it was initially just a forum for Ruiner groupies, and anyone who didn't fall in line with the Ruiner cult was instantly banned. Ria & Co ran that place like Nazis. Then Ria and Kathy had a falling-out, and Ria and her cult left for greener pastures, wiping out half of the forum in the process out of spite before Kathy could manage to ban her.

From then on, it was pretty much a one-woman show, where Kathy posted whatever she wanted. She then asked me to become an administrator there, and I accepted in order to help her out with the technical matters. However, then Kathy forgot to renew her domain lease, and her Vietnamese registrar parked the domain. By the time we got that sorted out, her French hosting company — OVH SAS, who have quite a bad reputation — had deleted the entries for eye-rise.com from their DNS servers and then refused to restore them. As a result, Eye-Rise has vanished into a black hole.

[Silly Wabbit]

Well first off Denise, I for one greatly appreciate you trying to appeal to everyone's best side, both here and over yonder. Wanting for cooler heads to prevail is a graceful space to be occupying, and I think you'd make a real good mod!

Thank You Fred, That is very sweet... you brought a tear to my eye. (I didn't expect that)... For a moment you made me feel proud to be me... Silly as it sounds, you touched a delicate nerve in me, that few know about...

I had a rough childhood.. (Very rough).. And along the way, there were a few people that went "above and beyond" to make sure that I knew I was worthy of friendship, love, and being treated as though I mattered.. Sometimes in the most simple of ways, a smile, a question when I really needed a shoulder, or even just encouragement... It stuck with me in a profound way... Such a simple thing right? Yet my childhood lacked all of those things, in a terrible way.

As such, I try with sincerity to live my life being one of those individuals.... as I know it could mean the difference between life and death for someone in a desperate situation... One smile, one sincere Thank You, one honest compliment, which costs nothing to share, can make the difference in the life of someone who never experiences kindness in their lives.

Being a moderator is a tough job I am sure.. I am definitely not qualified for such a thing.. But Thank You for that as well... It made me smile.

Let me see if I can try and explain this obvious mess you're looking at, so that maybe you can at least understand it a little better. Having only been a member of PA since 2019, there's a lot of water under the bridge, and gone the way of the disappearing boat wake before you got there.

A lot of shit's gone down at that place over the years, often times very nasty shit, and the way Captain Nill tends to treat people was/is often the source for that.

Hey let's face it, a lot of us wind up getting kind of addicted to forums, they can become a nice home away from home and a place to freely share things that really can't be shared elsewhere, so when people suddenly find themselves banned with their names often times being drug through the mud once they're gone and without a voice, it tends to stick in their craw just a bit.

Not saying this is everyone by any means, but enough that they would easily match, or even exceed, the number of current members posting there. There's a bunch of them out there! You'd never know that that looking at the numbers here, because most of them wind up just taking their own path off into the sunset as the other competition forums for "misfits" that popped up along the way eventually failed.

This is the only one left out of many, last man standing so to speak.

Anyway, at times when an old thread pops up, notice all the names in dark that are no more. What happened to them? Some of them deserved it, some didn't, but with the ones that didn't deserve it you'll never know, because there's no trace from their posting history as to what went wrong.

Don't get me wrong, because people being people it's happened here too, every forum has that. But every forum doesn't have the ever present residual bitterness left behind that The Project does, and there are reasons for that.

I have witnessed firsthand, people in the background stirring trouble, then redirecting the outcome to someone that perhaps they do not care much for, or are willing to "sacrifice to the cause." When I first joined, I had multiple people PM'ing me to tell me all kinds of gossip I didn't need to know. Things I felt were way out of line... And really none of their business, much less mine...

I understand why you are all frustrated... And I have since gotten a better sense of the overall way that Forums play out... And I have seen some really wild stuff, that I never would have expected. I suppose it is very difficult to set a tone for behavior... Especially after drama presents itself...

And so many situations play out that we never know about... And who knows what is being said to people, that the members never hear, that can sway things? I just know I wouldn't want to have to be the one who decides who stays and who goes.

Thank you for sharing your point of view... They all matter... I am sorry things ended in such a way that many never felt they got closure. Or at least the ability to defend themselves. It makes sense... Frustration would mount. And I think that is what I am reading... Frustration, that over time, turns one cold towards any solution. It loses it's viability over time... One can still hope though!

I do appreciate that you took the time to share your thoughts about it with me...

And I will read some of the links shared below, thanks guys!

I hope to find more about the topics I enjoy, from members who perhaps experienced them during that time frame, and stopped sharing once the site moved...... Things I may have missed...

[Gio]

Lot's of lovely sentiments Ms Rabbit, but where were you when Aragorn (Frank) was trying to mend fences with Bill and his forum?

Cos i've notice you always show up (with much interest) and comment here - Usually after i post in regards to Bill. Your posting here often appears (to me) to be a distraction/deflection thingy in your nature, or are you really just working a PR response posting stance for Bill?

Noting just my impression and opinion here, nothing personal.

[Aragorn]

Lot's of lovely sentiments Ms Rabbit, but where were you when Aragorn (Frank) was trying to mend fences with Bill and his forum?

Cos i've notice you always show up (with much interest) and comment here - Usually after i post in regards to Bill. Your posting here often appears (to me) to be a distraction/deflection thingy in your nature, or are you really just working a PR response posting stance for Bill?

Noting just my impression and opinion here, nothing personal.

Silly Wabbit and I have been in (very) regular contact by way of PMs ever since she first signed up for an account here, Gio, and we've gotten to know each other quite well in the meantime. She's a decent human being and she's very kindhearted. I can assure you that she can be trusted.

She just doesn't like forum drama — she's got enough worries of her own in her personal life — and she enjoys no special privileges or protection on the other side of the inter-forum ocean. That's why she's very conscientious about how her posts might get interpreted, and why she keeps a low profile, both here and over there.

[Gio]

OK ... Nice of you to vouch for her Aragorn ...

Since i got your attention ...

What is your take and opinion, why Bill went after your autistic abilities and lack thereof regarding empathy (almost referring to them as flaws) .. Which I take great offense at since many of my friends are of the autistic nature and know of their great empathic feelings toward things in general.

[Silly Wabbit]

Hi Gio!

Curiousity and my wanting to better understand group dynamics....That is why I read these threads.. And a bit of sadness that people I consider to be friends of mine, on both sides, no longer wish to be friendly with eachother. It is like walking on eggshells hoping that no one side see me as a threat to their beliefs, as I try to navigate what the heck went so wrong. And perhaps I also want to know you guys better as well.

I actually rarely if ever, talk to Bill... But I absolutely do consider him to be a friend... Just as I am proud to call you all my friends... You have all been so very polite and kind to me, and for that, I Thank You... You treat me as an individual that has a membership in both places, and not as one of "Them" merely because I have a membership there. And Bill, being very respectful to our friendship, treats me just as kindly. No one has ever tried to pit me against "The Other Side", and for that, I am grateful...

This allows me to explore all friendships without conflict, I hate conflict.

Never has he, or ANYONE for that matter, asked me to check here for "Gossip", nor am I the type of person to go running back and forth suggesting.., "Have you seen what they said over there?" And that goes for both sites. And people are kind enough to share why they are unhappy... I need not agree with everyone's conclusions, just listen and understand this is how they personally feel, and that's fair right?

Honestly most topics being discussed these days are not the topics I originally came here (And there) to examine.. But as a member of both sites, I do examine the group dynamics and see whats happening, so if something does "Blow up", I will better understand both sides..

As far as when Frank was trying to mend fences with Avalon? I was here, I was there, watching it all play out... It wasn't my situation to get involved in.. Frank and I sometimes PM eachother... We talk about what is going on in our lives... I talk to him more about personal issues as friends do, just as I have with Bill in the past...

I thought it was great that he was doing that, trying to mend fences... But a lot of water has gone under the bridge prior to my arrival.. I didn't pick sides... That isn't my place, and I am fully aware that their friendship or lack of, is nothing I have any control over.

I didn't judge Bill or Frank... I just maintained my honest friendships during that time. I think Frank would agree...

I post here on this thread... Mostly because of the way things roll out in terms of the conversation. It is really about what is posted, that sparks me to feel that I wish to get into the conversation... And on this topic, you are educating me. I need not agree, but I am learning more about why people feel a certain way. It matters... Being a part of the community means it matters to understand the dynamic of said group...

Maybe I am wierd, but this is just how I see life...

[Fred Steeves]

OK ... Nice of you to vouch for her Aragorn ...

Hey Gio, I was going to do the same just that Frank beat me to it.

From everything I've seen since first taking notice of Denise after that meet up they had out in Laughlin a few years ago, she's always been the same genuine person throughout, and I have no reason to question her motives what so ever. She was even the same person when unwittingly talking to me posing as "Gracy" over there in a PM conversation some time back, as she is conversating with us all here today, and wouldn't you know she wasn't even traumatized for life by the experience to boot?

So yeah, that sillywabbit is okay in my book as well.

As I've maintained all along since January, I really wish there could be more dialogue (rather than hit and runs) between regular members of both forums, there would be a lot less misunderstandings as is already evidenced by Denise being interested in knowing more about us without judgment. She has no interest in choosing sides and I can respect that, but at least she's willing to hear people out and there ain't much of that going on these days whether on these forums, or anywhere else.

[Aragorn]

OK ... Nice of you to vouch for her Aragorn ...

Since i got your attention ...

What is your take and opinion, why Bill went after your autistic abilities and lack thereof regarding empathy (almost referring to them as flaws) .. Which I take great offense at since many of my friends are of the autistic nature and know of their great empathic feelings toward things in general.

Well, I am actually glad you ask, Gio, because just like you, I am highly offended by Fearless Leader™'s abuse of the fact that he knows I'm on the autism spectrum, which he portrays as if it were some kind of personality disorder on my part, as well as that I'm also highly offended by what I diagonally read in the post that Maggie/Delight so opportunistically had to add to Masha's thread, given that Maggie/Delight is a staunch and unrelenting anti-vaxxer and irrationally fanatic believer in the discredited British former physician Andrew Wakefield, who himself was barred from ever practising medicine again because he falsified his research for financial gain and unethically conducted medical experiments on unwitting subjects.

Unlike what Maggie/Delight claims, autism is not a form of brain damage at all, and it has nothing, zero, zilch, nada to do with vaccines. An autism spectrum neurology can encompass many different phenotypes — i.e. observable manifestations — such as low-functioning autism, high-functioning autism, dyslexia, attention deficit and/or hyperactivity disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and several other conditions, any of which can occur simultaneously within a single individual. Albert Einstein, Nikola Tesla, Thomas Edison, Isaac Newton, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and all those other geniuses of history were not brain-damaged; they were autistic, and they've all made the world a better place.

An autistic brain has literally a multitude of the amount of neurons and synapses found in a non-autistic brain, and what can be debilitating for people with autism proper — i.e. both low- and high-functioning autism — is the fact that this great amount of neurons and synapses can cause a neurological overload. This happens more often in low-functioning autistic people, but even high-functioning autistic people can and do experience this.

Autistic people are also not devoid of empathy, as Fearless Leader™ claims in his ignorant and arrogant sense of godlike self-righteousness. As the matter of fact, at the neurological level, the concept of empathy is facilitated by so-called mirror neurons, and just as autistic people have many more neurons than non-autistic people, they also have many more mirror neurons, and are therefore exceptionally empathetic. When an autistic person observes or visualizes an experience had by another person, they are in a manner of speaking going through this experience themselves — which can actually be quite traumatic and traumatizing to them.

However, autistic people don't always know how to properly communicate how they feel, and if the feelings are too intense, then they may not be able to communicate at all anymore. And this is not just limited to verbal communication, but also to physical reactions. For instance, an autistic person who is in a lot of physical pain will often not exhibit this to the world, simply because the neurological input overloads their brain as the result of their far greater amount of neurons, and then instead of letting the pain show, they freeze, which in turn causes even greater suffering, because with nowhere to go, the pain and the suffering will only feed back on themselves.

As we all know, Fearless Leader™ has an indomitable self-confidence and very little respect for the truth, especially in areas that he knows nothing about because they do not fall within his field of interest. In having such an indomitable self-confidence, he is therefore also quite comfortable about readily accepting prejudices and declaring them as the absolute truth. At the same time, he is also opportunistic enough to then throw those completely unjustified prejudices out there — such as that autistic people wouldn't have any empathy, or that Fred Steeves would be a sociopath. And while he's then so gleefully picking at what he believes to be the splinter in someone else's eye, he's missing that colossal beam in his own eye, namely that he's a clinical narcissist and not quite as righteous as he wants his followers to believe he'd be.

The bottom line of all of the above is that both Fearless Leader™'s claims regarding autism and his willful obliviousness of his own narcissistic personality disorder actually bring to the surface what a superficial person he really is. He may be eloquent, but he's got no depth, and beyond his experience and skills as a mountaineer and a survivalist, he's actually a very empty person with very little to offer to the world.

It is therefore highly ironic that a man who so overtly displays his own narcissistic personality disorder — and who therefore himself has very little empathy, if any at all — would make any claims about other people's ability to empathize. Or for that matter, that he of all people should be qualified to diagnose anyone at all as being a sociopath, least of all when he regularly exhibits some sociopathic traits of his own, such as taking out his frustrations on people who've got nothing to do with what he's frustrated about and then showing no remorse whatsoever afterwards — on the contrary: he will continue treating them passive-aggressively from there on, and I can easily testify of this myself, because he also did it to me.

Oh, and while I'm at it, Maggie/Delight should change her name to Karen. As a retired nurse, she's a disgrace to all professional nurses, medics and paramedics.

[Gio]

Yes, Karen's grown into a constant kind of Delight ...