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Thread: The Left In America

  1. #106
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    This country doesn't have a left which is coherent in any way. A person can't point to 'the left'. It's not a clear group or entity. It's not the DNC. It's not the media. (despite constant claims otherwise).

    Those who are actually left in their politics usually call themselves progressive. They're not fans of the DNC or the Dems. They're Americans who don't see themselves being represented either in the media or in politics. The few exceptions of representation would be folks like Sanders or Warner.

    There's not much in the way of media which is left leaning. Maybe "Democracy Now" and a couple other small examples.

    Most people on the right in America don't even seem to know what 'left' is. The things I get heard described as 'liberal' are mostly just made up stuff coming from the right. They really really need the left as a straw man for distraction and blame.

    I invented the term Republexcuse in the Gingrich years. The number one Republexcuse is either 'liberal', progressive', or 'democrat'. Just hurl whichever is in ascendance for whatever you don't like and blame them.

    It's so easy. Or at least it has been.

    George Bush got away with two wars using that tact. "You're not a patriot!" "Support the troops!" "Stay the course!" And if you didn't you were a terrible liberal who hated America.

    The left hasn't been much more than a whipping post during my lifetime. The actual people who have leftist views don't get heard in America. They just get drowned out. It's pretty pathetic, imo.

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  3. #107
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Dissagreeing with both here but regards mental health both are correct, imo the far rite n left and both margins to the middle have little interest in root causes or actual problem though both say the actual problem is them.

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Thank you for the prime example of what is now considered "the left" in this country. They're not even anti war any more that's long gone, one of the primary reasons for being is to lash out at "the others".

    Disdain for "the others" is a trait they share with the modern day right. It's very tribal and only getting more so by the day.
    What solutions you see or feel FG ?.

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  5. #108
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Here are some useful perspectives about the left in America.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr93uCNC4bg


    I agree that the best defense is a good offense and the Dems clearly won't recall/embrace that basic fact. Someone needs to give them a refresher. The right fights as dirty as possible, and then goes further. The left goes, "Oh dear," and frets.

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  7. #109
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Does he talk about this issue too there?


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIsvVOMfhLs

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  9. #110
    Super Moderator Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Does he talk about this issue too there?


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIsvVOMfhLs
    He works for MSNBC, which means his job is to be on the warpath to demonstrate republican bad/democrat good. He's a good counterpart to a guy like Sean Hannity on FOX NEWS, who's job is to be on the warpath to demonstrate republican good/democrat bad. They both have an agenda, and they're paid very well to carry it out. Not that either one don't have good points about the other, but, they're necessarily blind to anything that may need fixing on their own team.

    Here's a good example from his very busy Twitter feed. In this case he commits the required lie of omission. He has a very valid point hinting at the horrible destruction the two Bush wars caused, but he'll conveniently never ever ever give mention to the horrible destruction Obama did to Libya, or the ongoing atrocity he signed on to in Yemen by aiding the Saudis. Those two wars may as well never have happened because they don't fit the narrative.


    This is the kind of shit that drives me crazy with these partisan (so called) journalists, and it can be seen up and down his feed, or on his show. The only time he'll criticize a democrat is when he feels they're not going after a republican hard enough, and it's why I tune these people out any more in favor of true objective journalists, who actually have a voice in independent media. They're not just looking for rot on one side or the other, they're looking for rot wherever it may reside, and there's plenty of it to go around.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  11. #111
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Thanks for the clarification. It seems that this culture war isn't going to lead towards anything good. The media is so incendiary.

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  13. #112
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I most often hear folks separate Mehdii Hasan out as exceptional to the usual MSNBC folks. And they usually have a good point. I think, Wind, if you were to listen to his show on Peacock you would find that he covers many things, including plenty of media criticism, that the other talking heads don't.

    I'm aware that the interview with Mary Trump is longish, but it's worth the listen as they make some important points that won't be heard in other places.

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  15. #113
    Super Moderator Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    It seems that this culture war isn't going to lead towards anything good. The media is so incendiary.
    Unfortunately, there's not a lot more to it any more beyond the ever ongoing culture war, neither party particularly gives a shit about the people, and the media fans the flames as though it's all important. The odd thing is that although there is a vibrant Left in this country that could be a good balancing factor, but it's not allowed into the political arena, and we have a moderate Right party in a fight to the death with an extreme Right party.

    The moderate right wants to continually laser focus on "Trump Bad", the extreme right wants to laser focus on things like Mr. Potato Head and cancel culture, and in all the fray the actual people are left in the dust by both to fend for themselves. But choose a side we must anyway, which elite millionaires from our chosen side do we want ruling over us that don't even care for our input, it's quite bizarre when you really think about it.

    But are there things these two can almost always agree on? Yep - More money for war, and make sure banks, Wall Street and the corporations remain unfettered.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  17. #114
    Senior Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Unfortunately, there's not a lot more to it any more beyond the ever ongoing culture war, neither party particularly gives a shit about the people, and the media fans the flames as though it's all important. The odd thing is that although there is a vibrant Left in this country that could be a good balancing factor, but it's not allowed into the political arena, and we have a moderate Right party in a fight to the death with an extreme Right party.

    The moderate right wants to continually laser focus on "Trump Bad", the extreme right wants to laser focus on things like Mr. Potato Head and cancel culture, and in all the fray the actual people are left in the dust by both to fend for themselves. But choose a side we must anyway, which elite millionaires from our chosen side do we want ruling over us that don't even care for our input, it's quite bizarre when you really think about it.

    But are there things these two can almost always agree on? Yep - More money for war, and make sure banks, Wall Street and the corporations remain unfettered.
    That almost makes sense, Fred, with a minor caveat. The right and the corporatists run this country hands down. The reason everyone castigates the left for being 'weak' is because they are. Corporatists enslaved the right decades if not centuries ago. As Bill Paxton said in "Alien" ... "Game over, man!" ... The left has no choice but to accept the crumbs left over ... get it ... left .. over, from the big money and the right to keep themselves and the American people going. If you see through to that level Fred, you will have arrived, even if the rest of the right has no God given clue, as they will never take off their white-colored glasses until they are gone and hopefully they will not have taken us with them. It's good to be in the correct subspecies.
    “To seek self-knowledge is to embark on a journey which ... will always be incomplete" - courtesy of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem

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  19. #115
    Super Moderator Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I most often hear folks separate Mehdii Hasan out as exceptional to the usual MSNBC folks. And they usually have a good point. I think, Wind, if you were to listen to his show on Peacock you would find that he covers many things, including plenty of media criticism, that the other talking heads don't.
    That's a good idea, but he (and anyone else) could quickly get a more broad sense of where he's coming from, and much more quickly, by just scanning the comments and show clips he posts on his very busy Twitter feed.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I'm aware that the interview with Mary Trump is longish, but it's worth the listen as they make some important points that won't be heard in other places.
    Aw hell I'll give it a shot. If I can watch the latest election fraud crap "2,000 Mules" for research purposes, then I can watch anti Trump specialist Mehdii Hasan interviewing the sister who despises him, for the same reason.

    Fair is fair.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  21. #116
    Super Moderator Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    If you see through to that level Fred, you will have arrived,
    Really really tough to see that happening Chuckie, I'm set in stone on being about the issues and hoping people of different stripes can actually come together on at least some things, not the "us vs. them" thing.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  23. #117
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    But are there things these two can almost always agree on? Yep - More money for war, and make sure banks, Wall Street and the corporations remain unfettered.
    You're right about this, Fred. But it can't go on. Because they've only been able to 'get away with it' while the charade of the two-party system is in operation. But we now have one team which wants to destroy the other, a bunch of angry folks convinced that one team is full of secret pedo-globalist-overlords, a bunch of angry people manipulated into believing the election was illegitimate, and a Supreme Court beholden to the Federalist Society.

    This isn't a cake walk anymore for the weapons/corporate game. It will throw massive wrenches into things. And we already have been running on fumes when it comes to our infrastructure, not to mention being utterly unprepared for climate change.

    That's gonna make it very hard for the 'two-party' status quo to continue.

    A turn to authoritarian rule won't restore any freedoms. It will only decimate what remains.

    And you're right, Fred. It's weird. Because it's self-destructive.

    That's hubris for ya.


    Mary is Trump's niece. He screwed her and her family out of their inheritance.

    I don't go on twitter as much now because I can only read for a short while before it wants me to subscribe. I was seriously considering doing so and then Elon Musk started sticking his hands up twitter's skirts. I'm not so interested now. If he's out of the picture with twitter I might rethink.

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  25. #118
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Texas Paul has been putting out some work these days. I find him interesting. He addresses the gross practices of Justice Thomas and his wife Ginni, who seems to be the cream of the crop in terms of overturning elections and undermining the Constitution. Paul gets into their history. Ginni Thomas is the one who's been picking and pushing the Federalist Society Supreme Court picks.

    It's good cover being married to a black man when you're supporting white supremacist agendas.


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  27. #119
    Super Moderator Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Mary is Trump's niece. He screwed her and her family out of their inheritance.
    Ah right, thank you. I listened to one long interview with her back when her book came out, and haven't paid much attention since, so got it a bit confused over time. I'll be giving that interview a listen.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I don't go on twitter as much now because I can only read for a short while before it wants me to subscribe. I was seriously considering doing so and then Elon Musk started sticking his hands up twitter's skirts. I'm not so interested now. If he's out of the picture with twitter I might rethink.
    Well it remains to be seen exactly what he'd do with it, but I'd be surprised if it rapidly devolved even further just because of him. What I continue to notice is that both left and right are champions of free speech, so long as it's on their terms, but we shall see.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  29. #120
    Senior Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Texas Paul has been putting out some work these days. I find him interesting. He addresses the gross practices of Justice Thomas and his wife Ginni, who seems to be the cream of the crop in terms of overturning elections and undermining the Constitution. Paul gets into their history. Ginni Thomas is the one who's been picking and pushing the Federalist Society Supreme Court picks.

    It's good cover being married to a black man when you're supporting white supremacist agendas.

    Good find, DT. I've long despised the Heritage foundation. Impeach him indeed. The left would be afraid to try and the right wouldn't let them do it. We are in deep poopoo.
    Last edited by Chuckie, 24th May 2022 at 11:20.
    “To seek self-knowledge is to embark on a journey which ... will always be incomplete" - courtesy of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem

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