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Thread: The Left In America

  1. #61
    Senior Member PurpleLama's Avatar
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    Yes, it is a reference to the DOJ acquiring evidence against HB that was mentioned in passing in a NYT article on that date, which was the start of it being splashed across many media sites over the last week.
    Sometimes God shines his magic light beam from outer space, and it works in mysterious ways.

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  3. #62
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    ok, sounds like we are on the same page at the moment.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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  5. #63
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    I don't usually expend so much energy tracking down claims that I can only find on right-wing sites but this one was just too enticing. I bought a NY Times prescription (not a euphemism) so I could read the blockbuster news update.

    Four major takeaways:

    1. The obvious one as pointed out on a number of links I explored: the laptop exists.
    2. The provenance is as yet undetermined. Meaning who it belongs to is unknown or not revealed.
    3. Whether or not it was altered in any way is as yet undetermined or not revealed.
    4. A graphic video does not equate to child porn. So likely the only way to verify this is if one has seen the video.

    One oddity is that the shop owner could identify Hunter Biden only as that was the way it was presented to him, by name. He is legally blind.
    One will notice that while Julian Assange does not figure prominently in the article he is connected to it via his leaks to the press.

    So here is the 411 in all of its illustrious glory:

    What We Know and Don’t About Hunter Biden and a Laptop


    President Trump’s allies have long promoted claims of corruption about Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s son Hunter in a bid to damage Mr. Biden’s presidential campaign. The accusations intensified in recent days when some of Mr. Trump’s associates, including his personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani, provided material for a New York Post article detailing some of the allegations. The Post reported that the F.B.I. had seized a computer that purportedly belonged to Hunter Biden.

    The Biden campaign has rejected the accusations. Many questions remain about the origins of the allegations themselves, the laptop, and what, if anything, agents are investigating.

    What are the allegations Mr. Trump and his allies are making?

    The Post article relied on documents purportedly taken from the computer to try to buttress an unsubstantiated argument peddled by Mr. Giuliani and other Trump supporters: that as vice president, Mr. Biden had shaped American foreign policy in Ukraine to benefit his son. The events are the latest chapter in a more than two-year effort by the president and his allies to uncover damning information about the Bidens, a pursuit that also helped prompt Mr. Trump’s impeachment.

    Mr. Biden has long said he knew nothing about his son’s business activities in Ukraine. But the article suggested that the former vice president met with an adviser to a Ukrainian energy company whose board Hunter Biden sat on, Burisma Holdings. The article referred to an email that the adviser, Vadym Pozharskyi, sent to Hunter Biden thanking him for “giving an opportunity to meet your father” and to spend “some time together.”

    A Biden campaign spokesman said Mr. Biden’s official schedules did not show a meeting between the two men. A lawyer for Hunter Biden, George Mesires, told The Washington Post that “this purported meeting never happened.”

    The New York Post reporter who wrote most of the article refused to put his name on it because of concerns about its credibility, two Post employees have said. (emphasis mine)

    How did the laptop surface?

    A computer repair shop owner in Wilmington, Del., named John Paul Mac Isaac has said Hunter Biden left a damaged Apple computer at his shop in April 2019 and asked to recover any data. Mr. Isaac said in an interview with The New York Times last week outside the shop that he is legally blind and could not be sure whether the man was Hunter Biden but asked his name to fill out a work order, and the man identified himself as Hunter Biden. Mr. Isaac said the man came to his shop twice but never returned to retrieve the computer or an external hard drive on which its contents had been stored.

    At some point, he decided to examine the material, calling it “alarming” and “embarrassing” but declining to discuss specifics. Mr. Isaac also said he made a copy of the computer’s contents.

    How did the F.B.I. learn about the laptop?

    Mr. Isaac said he told the bureau. He said he eventually decided to contact the F.B.I. after he began fearing for his safety because he knew what was on the laptop, which The New York Post said included a graphic video. “If I was somebody important, I would want to keep some of this stuff private,” he said. “Nobody wants their dirty laundry aired.”
    Mr. Isaac said he met with F.B.I. agents in late 2019 and provided them with a timeline of events. The agents returned about two weeks later in mid-December with a grand jury subpoena allowing them to seize the laptop and the external hard drive. The subpoena was signed by a federal prosecutor in the U.S. attorney’s office in Wilmington who handles criminal investigations such as fraud, and Mr. Isaac acknowledged receiving it.

    The agents also gave him a receipt for what they took, according to a photograph of it published by Fox News. The receipt included an F.B.I. code, 272D, the bureau’s internal classification for money laundering investigations, and “BA” for its Baltimore field office. Officials separately confirmed that the F.B.I. seized the laptop and an external hard drive as part of an investigation, though they did not detail the inquiry or whether it involved money laundering or Hunter Biden. They also confirmed that the agent who signed the receipt works in Wilmington and is overseen by the Baltimore office.

    What happened after the F.B.I. took the equipment?

    Mr. Isaac said he did not hear back from investigators. He said that he wondered why the laptop’s existence had not been disclosed during the impeachment proceedings against Mr. Trump, and that he began to fear that agents might be trying to bury the information he found on the laptop.

    Mr. Trump’s impeachment focused on his dealings with Ukraine, and in particular his attempts to press the president of Ukraine to announce investigations that could benefit Mr. Trump politically, including one into Burisma and the Bidens. In an effort to counter the accusations that Mr. Trump abused his power, some of his supporters, including Mr. Giuliani, also promoted allegations of corruption about Hunter Biden’s work in the country while his father was vice president.

    Mr. Isaac said “it just didn’t feel right” that the existence of the laptop was not widely known. “Somebody besides me should have known about it,” he said. Mr. Isaac said he called a couple of members of Congress, whom he did not identify, but did not hear back.

    Mr. Isaac declined to discuss his next steps, but The New York Post reported that in September, he gave the copy of the hard drive to Mr. Giuliani’s lawyer, Robert J. Costello. Mr. Giuliani later provided it to the tabloid, a handoff in which Stephen K. Bannon, a former adviser to Mr. Trump who was indicted in an unrelated fraud case, also played an unspecified role. Since the Post article was published, a clamorous Mr. Giuliani has pushed the allegations and said they prove the Bidens are corrupt. Mr. Giuliani also said in an interview that he alerted Mr. Trump that the tabloid would be publishing an article about the laptop in case he was asked about it.

    What about concerns over Russian disinformation?

    No concrete evidence has emerged that the laptop contains Russian disinformation.

    With pressure mounting on the F.B.I. to respond to questions from Congress about the laptop, the bureau wrote to one of the president’s staunchest allies in Congress, Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, suggesting that it had not found any Russian disinformation on the laptop.

    John Ratcliffe, the director of national intelligence, also told Fox Business Network that the “laptop is not part of some Russian disinformation campaign.” But Mr. Ratcliffe, who has been criticized for embracing the president’s political agenda in a traditionally apolitical job, did not make clear whether the intelligence agencies or the F.B.I. authenticated the laptop’s contents or whether he was simply saying that they had not gathered evidence that Russia altered any of the material.

    The laptop prompted concerns about Russian disinformation because the intelligence community has warned for months about Russian attempts to influence the election, including by spreading disinformation about the Biden family. Russia has conducted a hacking campaign to find information damaging to the Biden campaign, most notably through a hack on Burisma.
    Intelligence officials have also warned the White House that Russian intelligence officers were using Mr. Giuliani, who provided the hard drive copy to the tabloid, as a conduit for disinformation aimed at undermining Mr. Biden’s presidential run.

    What don’t we know?

    A lot. Mr. Isaac, who said he voted for Mr. Trump in 2016, declined to answer many questions about the laptop and his contacts with the F.B.I. He also would not talk about his communications with the Trump loyalists who orchestrated the plan to make the computer’s contents public just before the election.

    It is also not clear what the F.B.I. did with the laptop or what Justice Department officials knew about the sensitive F.B.I. investigation at the time. F.B.I. officials have declined to discuss the inquiry.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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  7. #64
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    A thread in the alternative community about the left is bound to contain Trump as he was a lefty donor for a long time and friend of the Clintons, the face of the left for the alternative community. If he didn't come up something would be wrong.

    One thing I've learned over the years is the hyperbole about the left is mostly that. I know people who worked for Hillary and she was nothing of what was claimed during the elections. But that doesn't matter because people cling to their emotions. I never bothered to even post about her. No point, you know. The judgement was laid down long ago.

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  9. #65
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    I don't think Orange Jesus was ever really a lefty, I think he's just always been an opportunist born into that silver spoon and the who's who of New York City cliques. But in the last few years he's morphed into something I've never seen before, a very dangerous man IMO.

    I think Bill and Hillary did start out left, there's that old picture of Bill all excited at a JFK rally. But people often change when they taste real power as we just saw with Trump. Tough to even think of Hillary as even a democrat any more, much less a lefty, I see her more as a ruthless, good old fashioned neocon under a razor this veneer of (D). I think she's dangerous in her own right.

    It's unfortunate that the right has seized upon her as the epitome of what is left in this country, that, and other such foolishness as cancel culture and wokeness, as there is nothing close to traditional leftism in any of them.

    And then we have Biden, also supposedly left, in that he's supposedly so far left he's actually a communist, which is pure foolishness at the very least. Looking at his record, and even down to how he governs today, he's very close to a good old fashioned moderate republican.

    The problem here, as I see it, is that mainstream democrats will bend over backwards to defend anything and everything ever associated with the man because he's a teammate; same as Hillary and others of the kind, when defense of them curtails any criticism of any sort, that leaves nothing to improve on as apparently everything they touch turns to gold, leading the dissatisfied working class wide open to hopping on board with a fake populist like Trump who maybe WILL give them what they want and need. This is what happened in 2016, lots of dems jumped ship...

    And what did the DNC decide to do about that highly improbable and embarrassing loss? No looking in the mirror as to what they did wrong and what they could do better; instead, it was all hands on deck to hop on the Russia muh Pussia train and blame everything on "the evil one" Putin, while propping up yet another long time establishment type, under the banner of "anyone but Trump!".

    Well guess what? Because of this the original problems still remain unchecked, leaving the door wide open for the next Trump to come along and take advantage of that exact same thing again.

    So diehard dems can bitch and moan all they want about republicans and their arch nemesis Orange Jesus, but the more they defend their own deeply entrenched swamp party which is only minimally left right wing than their counterparts, the more things will remain the same.

    Unless the only real purpose is loyalty to the home team and to have "the others" to blame for every ill in this country, in that case the wheels on the bus keep going round and round, and we'll fall all over ourselves for "Kamala 2024", with the only real thing that is offered will again be akin to "anyone but the other guys".

    Who needs health care, a better paying job, or really wants the wars to end? When all we really need is to keep those damn republicans at bay!
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  11. #66
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    no, I don't think (at this point anyway) Kamala will cut it. She's performing very much like a token right now. That might be unfair but that's my take. She isn't living up to her billing. I'm a bit surprised by her lack of effectiveness actually (could be just media coverage with all things happening right now), but right-wing propaganda has already taken hold...too many lefties will be disheartened about her chances of winning righties.

    I think a better choice would be that gay dude ... he did pretty well the first time around and now that more people are aware of him, he will have more traction. We'll see.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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  13. #67
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    I'm almost certain that Trump will win the next elections unless something really drastic happens within the next two years.

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  15. #68
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    I'm almost certain that Trump will win the next elections unless something really drastic happens within the next two years.
    possible, against all odds, I think he will be eliminated for criminal convictions.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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  17. #69
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    These are quite indicative of what I'm pointing out:

    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    no, I don't think (at this point anyway) Kamala will cut it. She's performing very much like a token right now. That might be unfair but that's my take. She isn't living up to her billing. I'm a bit surprised by her lack of effectiveness actually (could be just media coverage with all things happening right now), but right-wing propaganda has already taken hold...too many lefties will be disheartened about her chances of winning righties.
    Kamala Harris never had any real billing in the first place, other than being an attractive black woman and a darling of the corporate democrat establishment. It didn't even matter that her resume as Attorney general of California included such lefty gems as keeping people in prison beyond their sentences, and fighting for jail time for parents of truants and pot smokers, because she's on "Team D" and that's all that matters in the end, not ideas.

    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    I think a better choice would be that gay dude ... he did pretty well the first time around and now that more people are aware of him, he will have more traction. We'll see.
    Another fine example of the DNC pushing identity politics over anything within earshot of fresh new ideas. "Let's push the good looking gay guy again maybe he'll hit this time, and if he doesn't, we'll blame it on the right and homophobia on his way out".
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  19. #70
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    probably true about Harris but I saw an individual willing to fight the right on equal ground.

    The 'booty' is a decent human ... sometimes that is the only agenda one need have. And his ideas haven't been expressed as yet, but I am certain they will be. Bear in mind that ideas on a political level are organizational in nature within a 'cultural' view. He's got the correct one for the future.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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  21. #71
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    probably true about Harris but I saw an individual willing to fight the right on equal ground.
    And the wheels on the bus keep going round and around. No matter how atrocious her record in elected office, doesn't matter, only that she can take it to the right.

    I used to be astounded in the same way over at PA when Orange Jesus released the hounds on Julian Assange. It just didn't matter to them in the same way, so long as he kept taking it to the left.



    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    The 'booty' is a decent human ... sometimes that is the only agenda one need have. And his ideas haven't been expressed as yet, but I am certain they will be. Bear in mind that ideas on a political level are organizational in nature within a 'cultural' view. He's got the correct one for the future.
    So you're rooting for the guy who looks nice on t.v., while resting assured that even though you haven't heard his ideas, they will be good ones.

    The DNC loves that sort of voter, they can continue snuffing out anyone with actual good ideas like it's a walk in the park, because a significant number of loyal dems simply don't care. Any blue will do.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    The DNC is not culturally influential like that. The social change that's happening doesn't happen top down. That's why the attempts to suppress the vote are so strong. Because it's the population which is changing.

    The DNC is very weak and has no influence in most states because it hasn't campaigned in most states, as folks in those states have attested for decades. That was Hillary's biggest weakness. She's not exactly setting the cultural tone in the US. The DNC just isn't all that.

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  25. #73
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    And the wheels on the bus keep going round and around. No matter how atrocious her record in elected office, doesn't matter, only that she can take it to the right.

    I used to be astounded in the same way over at PA when Orange Jesus released the hounds on Julian Assange. It just didn't matter to them in the same way, so long as he kept taking it to the left.





    So you're rooting for the guy who looks nice on t.v., while resting assured that even though you haven't heard his ideas, they will be good ones.

    The DNC loves that sort of voter, they can continue snuffing out anyone with actual good ideas like it's a walk in the park, because a significant number of loyal dems simply don't care. Any blue will do.
    yes, definitely ... as the rightist failed hero, Jordan Peterson, likes to claim: Thought preceding speech is inherent to human consciousness...Jung says that thought preceding action is inherent to human consciousness. I say thought preceding actions are indicative of the positive or negative nature of what one will bring to the table. The 'booty' will act according to ideas that are proactive and beneficial to humanity in a spiritually generous way and positive to 'all' people. That is what spiritual generosity has to offer to the everyday lives of humanity. Again, I say, what more could we ask of any human and certainly a human with power over their fellow humans.

    A kick-ass warrior against the insanities of the right is what was needed for the times. In the movie Tropic Thunder', the black Robert Downey Jr. tells Ben Stiller he admired the retarded character Stiller played in a movie but then adds how courageous he was to go 'full retard', the blackie thought it was never a good style to go full retard. The right has gone all into the psychopathic and authoritarian characters they play. It is nearly impossible as history and science have demonstrated to effectively counter such personalities. It appeared to me that Harris as an angry black female might be an effective counter if only a stopgap to the right. It might be that my perception was inaccurate. Perhaps, I should have factored in her white husband ... it explains the hard stance against crime and possibly the 'fake' warrior stance. Not sure at this point.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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  27. #74
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    The DNC is not culturally influential like that. The social change that's happening doesn't happen top down. That's why the attempts to suppress the vote are so strong. Because it's the population which is changing.

    The DNC is very weak and has no influence in most states because it hasn't campaigned in most states, as folks in those states have attested for decades. That was Hillary's biggest weakness. She's not exactly setting the cultural tone in the US. The DNC just isn't all that.
    They've been influential enough, along with allies, to make sure the one guy (Bernie Sanders) who actually really wants to improve things for average Americans gets edged out.

    First time in '16 by admitted sheer corruption, the second time in '20 by teaming up with big timers like Obama to convince other competing candidates to drop out, and all together as one big team placing their full support behind the "Weekend at Bernie's" guy and against the real agent of change.

    Those aren't exactly the actions of a neutered dog, why do you defend this?
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  29. #75
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    Bernie Sanders has not risen to the top because he is an asshole and that makes him a liberal statistical outlier. He wants to do things as Obama and Biden have both indicated they were/are willing to do, Obama was the best 'well-rounded' leader we've had in generations. By well-rounded, I mean wanting to apply the leftist ideal and compromising to the right which made him an effective 'candidate'. It wasn't enough for the right though, they want it all and without compromise. The authoritarian ideal is 'one for me and all for me'. Bernie Sanders would not have flown in that environment. He might now, but he would be totally effete against the degenerate right, meaning totally ineffective.

    We've seen that play before, e.g. Bill Clinton. I think without forethought, as an instinctive action, psychopathic groups demand things and they get them, and when they go to shit they blame the person they coerced into enacting them. (i.e. GOP)
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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