The Left In America

[Emil El Zapato]

I'm with you, man.

If we don't, what do we get? Putin ... I'll take a benign doddering, senile, stuttering jackass to that alternative. We have to 'progress' in a truly progressive manner. Not a faked liberation and freedom movement taught to us and guided by alternative media. We need to bridle rampant exploitative capitalism where only the corporatists and their pawns win. We need to develop a global consciousness that recognizes that not all people are born to be cigar-smoking, champagne-drinking elitists. And we have to learn that in many cases all the wealth and power the elite possess was handed to them without one freakin' sliver of good ol' puritan ethic hard work, thus they aren't heaven sent by virtue of anything they have done. They need to see the poor, incapacitated, the old, the uneducated, and the unintelligent as every bit as human and deserving of dignity, if not more so than them. When that happens we have arrived or at least have made a big jump in social consciousness.

[Wind]

I'm with you, man.

Why you communist you.

[Catsquotl]

If we don't, what do we get? Putin ...

Well, there are alternative options.
I'm not saying they are better or worse. Just that there are options, besides whats fed to us through the media.
If Putin is the first thing that comes to mind when you need to think about options. I would stick with capitalist based democracy as well. perhaps..

Well maybe not so much in retrospect.

[Aragorn]

Well, there are alternative options.
I'm not saying they are better or worse. Just that there are options, besides whats fed to us through the media.
If Putin is the first thing that comes to mind when you need to think about options. I would stick with capitalist based democracy as well. perhaps..

Well maybe not so much in retrospect.

Putin is not a socialist by any means. He's an oligarch-capitalist.

[Silly Wabbit]

This song comes to mind when talking about any issue in America...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMAIsqvTh7g

[Emil El Zapato]

Here's another one:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu5hzc2Mei4

[Fred Steeves]

There are two dominant aspects of the left as I see them, and one underdog: The establishment democratic party and the woke/cancel culture would be the two dominant wings, with the traditional left being by far the underdog, the red headed stepchild so to speak.

The establishment wing consists of a pre ordained set of established stances on certain issues, to be in good standing with this wing, one must only adopt those stances as their own, and defend them at any and every opportunity. It also requires an us vs. them mentality. Them being anyone in non agreement, namely the boogey man, otherwise known as the right and/or republicans.

The woke/cancel culture wing is akin to a hard core militia force designed to attack and smear "the others" for the slightest perceived offenses, while ignoring any such offenses from its own side. This particular wing, by the way, is what is so obsessively pointed to by the right/alt right places like The Project, as being the all encompassing "The Left". Of course it's not, but it's very vocal and in your face so an easy target in the great culture war.

The traditional left is "the thinking man's" wing, the ones who stand on a well established set of principles. Being that they're dedicated to objective thinking and not a home team, they're often the recipients of rotten tomatoes when they see and point out problems not only on the right, but on their own team the left as well. This is a big no no, because anyone in good standing with the other two wings, knows full well that the only problems facing America come from republicans and the right. There is no other way to see it.

When the traditional left goes against their own team, they're either viewed as traitors to "the cause", or brainwashed. However with the advent of Russia hysteria, there's a new and upcoming designation now for those who not only refuse to wave the American flag and sing her righteous praises from sea to shining sea, but actually dare to try and see things through the Russian lens, as well as through the American lens, and that would be perhaps they're confused in their political compass. So now the Glenn Greenwald/Matt Taibbi types are quickly becoming pariahs at the hands of the two dominant wings, they're now nothing but Russian apologists, and they were really right or alt right all along, they just didn't realize it.

So there's really no use in even listening to such people any more, they're anti American for seeing the world through more than just the American lens, and they're nothing but Putin puppets. The left is in the process of purifying itself to death. Wokeness is perfectly fine, cancel culture is perfectly fine, but there's no room under that so called big tent for "Putin Puppets" who refuse to don the required ideological straight jacket. It's all about wagging the finger of guilt at the right, and perceived right, and that's about all there is to it the buck stops right there. No use in being policy driven any more, and no need for self reflection, because it's become axiomatic that every ill known to man is basically because of republicans.

It's the same way on the right, and ever increasingly so, no need to be policy driven because it's axiomatic that every ill known to man is basically because of democrats. But this thread isn't about the right, I've already done my best to point out those same failings to no avail over at The Project.

With both parties it's become all about the demonization and destruction of "the other", and all that accomplishes is leaving we the people as the forgotten man, while the endless and divisive culture war becomes all consuming in it's downward spiral.

[Emil El Zapato]

I'm sure there is a lot of truth to what you write Fred. As usual, my argument is I want to hear balanced criticism, not the blanket approach in which you accuse the left. No one in this day and age is naive enough to believe that any side is pure and without a history of serious missteps and evil behaviors. My objection to all the purported internet-made 'progressives' or any critic is they are completely focused on the wrong, without any apparent knowledge of a historical balancing of the scales. Is Russia all bad, hell no, is the U.S. all bad, hell no, though the right has made admirable attempts to make it so, as they have done worldwide for centuries? Prior to that, there were only authoritarians and that was the prevailing essence of social consciousness. The right needs to and has always needed to start living according to the sway of the masses in the extant level of world society and the 'awakening' consciousness of egalitarianism and equanimity of opposing notions.

Everything else is trivial bitch about this and bitch about that and we can thank the web for that. It is a propaganda tool made in heaven for all the empty heads that want to make their mark on the world. How many people have gained their 'esteemed insight' from watching youtube videos without ever having read a book? It's scary and no wonder we are in the state we are.

[Silly Wabbit]

Beng an "American" is difficult these days... You cannot just be a citizen who works and raises a family, you are catagorized, polarized, itemized, and sectioned into groups. Whether by race, political affiliation, wealth, or lack of, educational level, or address.... You cannot just be an American without labels. Left, Right, Red, Blue, ethnic or white, etc...

The way I see all of it is this.... A few very wise individuals, long ago put a plan in motion... They made a simple plan and stuck to it. Divide and conquer, literally... It started with land, and finances... then cultures, then progressed into religions, etc. And the running theme was division, division, division...

Much like retail, where the motto is "lower the price and make the wealth up in bulk"... The first move is to convince the masses that they do not agree... then lower the population in any one "group", by highlighting differences deliberately... People like to debate, in fact it was taught in the American educational system that debating is a GOOD THING.. We have been groomed from birth to be odebiant to those with "Perceived" power over us, bosses, principals, etc... Most do not debate them, but rather choose that safer option of debating the next best thing, their neighbor.... causing more division...

Before you know it you have what could have been very powerful allies now fighting amongst themselves, rather than taking on the true problems.

At what point do those who see this throw up their hands, realize that these things will never change, until people can recognize they're being led this way to begin with? Even many who will agree this is the case, would be the first to bicker a technicality to prove a point rather than moving beyond that. And I believe this is why we will get nowhere fast with any given "Movement" to get to any place that resembles "Freedom"

If one looks at the true structure that this "New America" was founded upon, that in and of itself was the beginning of said circle, and not in any way... actual freedom... While some may have had good intentions? I believe that those that really founded America's system that we operate in now? Knew full and well that it would be anything BUT free...

Sad really....

[Emil El Zapato]

Beng an "American" is difficult these days... You cannot just be a citizen who works and raises a family, you are catagorized, polarized, itemized, and sectioned into groups. Whether by race, political affiliation, wealth, or lack of, educational level, or address.... You cannot just be an American without labels. Left, Right, Red, Blue, ethnic or white, etc...

The way I see all of it is this.... A few very wise individuals, long ago put a plan in motion... They made a simple plan and stuck to it. Divide and conquer, literally... It started with land, and finances... then cultures, then progressed into religions, etc. And the running theme was division, division, division...

Much like retail, where the motto is "lower the price and make the wealth up in bulk"... The first move is to convince the masses that they do not agree... then lower the population in any one "group", by highlighting differences deliberately... People like to debate, in fact it was taught in the American educational system that debating is a GOOD THING.. We have been groomed from birth to be odebiant to those with "Perceived" power over us, bosses, principals, etc... Most do not debate them, but rather choose that safer option of debating the next best thing, their neighbor.... causing more division...

Before you know it you have what could have been very powerful allies now fighting amongst themselves, rather than taking on the true problems.

At what point do those who see this throw up their hands, realize that these things will never change, until people can recognize they're being led this way to begin with? Even many who will agree this is the case, would be the first to bicker a technicality to prove a point rather than moving beyond that. And I believe this is why we will get nowhere fast with any given "Movement" to get to any place that resembles "Freedom"

If one looks at the true structure that this "New America" was founded upon, that in and of itself was the beginning of said circle, and not in any way... actual freedom... While some may have had good intentions? I believe that those that really founded America's system that we operate in now? Knew full and well that it would be anything BUT free...

Sad really....

I like it Wabbit, especially the part of debating neighbors instead of the real culprits. Yep, this is a good perspective.

[Gio]

Just reading this whole thread's posts (discussion) ...
I can see you all together in someone's living room ...
Enjoying each other's company and conversing ...

To be a fly on the wall (as such) would be pleasurable.

Carry on ...

[Emil El Zapato]

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdw6uwSwFfI

[PurpleLama]

I have likewise seen several clips of her where she posits that purveyors of child pornography should face lighter sentencing because it is so much easier to acquire on the internet than it was prior to the internet. I disagree, as now the strict punishment is what remains as a deterrent, as one no longer has to seek out sources for such material.

[Emil El Zapato]

Hi Poiple,

actually, that's a mischaracterization of her position. There have been several GOP senators doing what they do best ... twisting the truth, removing context, firing up the Trumpers, etc.

Most of what has been leveled against her (according to most experts, both right and left) are nothing short of lies or what the debate captain would call:

Post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this, therefore because of this).

This is the fallacy of assuming that A caused B simply because A happened prior to B. A favorite example: "Most rapists read pornography when they were teenagers; obviously, pornography causes violence toward women." The conclusion is invalid, because there can be a correlation between two phenomena without one causing the other. Often, this is because both phenomena may be linked to the same cause. In the example given, it is possible that some psychological factor -- say, a frustrated sex drive -- might cause both a tendency toward sexual violence and a desire for pornographic material, in which case the pornography would not be the true cause of the violence.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc is nearly identical to cum hoc ergo propter hoc, which you should see for further details.

When she was in law school with Cruz ... one of the best of rightist archetypes (word compliments of Aragorn), pornography legislation was newly enacted and it was an assignment to assess the legalities of the laws from a 'student' perspective, in other words, positing pros and cons.

When Cruz presented her legal decisions she had made regarding porn offenders he completely contorted her statistics to look as though she was doing something uncharacteristic of her profession and more importantly her judicial district. The fact was/is that she was legally bound to some extent to adhere to legislation, upper and lower guidelines, but Cruz somehow failed to point out that the only determinant of sentencing is not the prosecution's request. There are other legal orgs that have input. Her district and from a national perspective incarceration time for offenders is "significantly" lower than prosecution's request, at least by 80%. In fact, her sentencing stats were significantly ABOVE the averages, another fact somehow overlooked by that scumbag *!%*!.

She made the comment of the internet and porn in a legal discussion concerning 'sentencing policy'. The debate captain would classify that as: (I don't really Cruz rises to this level b.t.w.)

Petitio principii (begging the question).

This is the fallacy of assuming, when trying to prove something, what it is that you are trying to prove. For all practical purposes, this fallacy is indistinguishable from circular argumentation.

The main thing to remember about this fallacy is that the term "begging the question" has a very specific meaning. It is common to hear debaters saying things like, "They say pornography should be legal because it is a form of free expression. But this begs the question of what free expression means." This is a misuse of terminology. Something may inspire or motivate us to ask a particular question without begging the question. A question has been begged only if the question has been asked before in the same discussion, and then a conclusion is reached on a related matter without the question having been answered. If somebody said, "The fact that we believe pornography should be legal means that it is a valid form of free expression. And since it's free expression, it shouldn't be banned," that would be begging the question.

[Gio]

You got to love him !