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Thread: The Fred/Gracy Affair, and the Inter-Forum Aftermath Thereof

  1. #61
    Senior Member Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    Project Avalon still harbors some good peeps ...
    And it has over the years attracted a wide gamut
    of individuals from all walks and talks of life ...

    But i no longer see it as an alternative center for
    differing views and opinions of the world/universe ...

    It is what it - an amassed and very selectively
    controlled conspiracy forum private playground.

    It has pretty much been that way since March 2010.
    From that point on the name really should of reflected
    the ownership of 'Bill Ryan's Project Avalon Forum' .
    The draw of PA is numbers. Being seen, heard and responded to. The dopamine fix.

    Quantity vs quality. Of course with quantity will come some natural quality.

    I am content with my Tent being able to express what I am 'into' at any time. Viewership is good and all is well in the Shire for me.

    The Shire (Hobbiton) did have its ear-cleaning types and ours is like that too.



    Gene pools have their shallow and deep ends.
    Last edited by modwiz, 28th January 2022 at 16:51.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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  3. #62
    Retired Member Hungary
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    More sock puppets?

    If that is the case, then I certainly hope that if and when they are exposed over there, the residents won't be pointing the finger at us over here again. Because in your case it certainly didn't take them long to do so.

    I've just had an email exchange with Bill in which he stated that we've got some nasty people over here. I told him that TOT is definitely no worse than Project Avalon in that regard, and that I've experienced this first-hand ─ being on the receiving end of it, right under his nose ─ in the few days that my account over there was active again.

    The "us versus them" debacle, it's just everywhere these days, and from the looks of it, Project Avalon"where science and spirituality meet" and "all lives matter" ─ still hasn't outgrown those primeval instincts.

    It's sad. And it's anything but "alternative". It reminds me of that old cartoon ─ I can't seem to find it ─ where this guy wearing a peace-symbol T-shirt is beating the shit out of some other guy with a "Make love not war" sign.

    "Love & Light"™, anyone?
    As one of those nasty people, I'm afraid I'll have to be a bit unkind(er).

    I really, really don't like confrontation and calling people out, but I'll have to give a general bollocking to the whole alternative space, at least to the part of it which is now alt-right, conspiratorial, or just outright fascist.

    This so-called alternative community has degenerated into something truly bizarre, a spectacle probably not seen since the 1930s, where all sorts of paranoid fantasies have taken hold of people's minds and made them believe patently untrue stuff.

    That in itself would be relatively harmless, but when coupled with far-right, nationalistic, fascist, etc... views, well, it becomes dangerous. A number of these "alternative" forums have become eco-chambers of alt-right hate and they have a pernicious effect in inflating the egos of the participants in these discussions, where they imagine themselves to be privy to some special insight or secret that others are apparently too dumb to see.

    I'm not singling out anyone, just pointing out the mechanism at work. I too was once somewhat affected by it, so I'm pointing the finger first at myself, by admitting that I have often fallen for such disreputable characters and charlatans in the past. The "alternative" space is chock full of raging narcissists, psychotics, psychopaths, conmen and other assorted unpleasant characters. I think we can all think of a few, even some who were once active participants on this very forum.

    The challenge here is to grow up, admit that you were wrong, or conned, then start again and seek the truth out for yourself, with better discernment and enhanced critical thinking skills. We will never truly know what's actually going on in this world, because most of it is hidden and the really important stuff takes place behind the scenes. But, we can never give up on seeking out the truth and listening to others who may be wiser than ourselves, whichever platform hosts these discussions.

    I think we should all try to avoid engaging in "forum wars", however tempting it might be to diss others who we may have fundamental disagreements with. This is probably the last post I'm going to make on this issue, I plan to ignore the whole us vs them debate from now on. We have more important stuff to deal with right now and I personally think all this back-and-forth between forums is rather childish.

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    Senior Member PurpleLama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post



    There's certainly some high level sock puppet action going on over there right this very minute, with full approval of leader who even thinks it's kind of cute, so as Spock would say: "Fascinating Captain".
    Attachment 2637

    I wonder what should happen to the "accomplices" who are well aware of this?
    Ok, Fred, this is quite the curious thing to say. There is someone else going under a different name, or otherwise concealing their identity? With Bill's approval? That is interesting, indeed.
    Sometimes God shines his magic light beam from outer space, and it works in mysterious ways.

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    Senior Monk Gio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post

    "Love & Light"™, anyone?
    Not Giovonni
    @It's really me

    Hey ...
    Some guy just gave me half of a peace sign !


    1/28/2022 954 AM
    Presenting an alternative to the alternative community.

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    The only thing I commend The Hat on is still being braless after all these years.

    Trying to stay positive about him.
    Oh gawd, not that picture again.

    It was Gio who posted that here at the time ─ I can't even remember when, but he posted it more than once ─ but I was the one who was grilled over that back when I was at Project Avalon again in the months before Bill asked me to become an administrator over there. Must have been late 2019, I think. It was around the time that they were just kicking out A Voice from the Mountains, alias bsbray ─ who, incidentally, wrote us a little letter via the contact form around Christmas last year, but that one's just a little too embarrassing to share.

    Let's just say that our former moderator has seriously gone off the deep end of the deep end of the deep end. It was actually quite surprising that he managed to fill up two very long paragraphs with primarily the words "shit", "gay", "fucking", "faggots" and "transgender children". He's gone full-on neo-Nazi, with a cocktail of psychosis, sociopathy and lots of booze added on top. Now there's a real sociopath, and he's proud of it too. And the snitch referenced higher up ─ and whom we shall not name, lest he'd take that for credit ─ was actually proposing that they'd grant him amnesty at PA. Boy, are they in for a treat if they let that guy back in.



    Anyway, Bill has always maintained that his members have freedom of speech ─ or at least, to a certain degree, because posts do get deleted over there ─ and I told him in our exchange today that our members over here have freedom of speech too, and that none of us in the mod room can be held accountable for what our members write. Fair is fair.

    The only thing we censor here is misinformation that could potentially lead to people dying ─ as with the Covid-19-related junk that Vern has been spamming across multiple threads lately, and that has already gotten people killed ─ or that is otherwise nefarious in some way, like hate speech, political propaganda, etc. And of course, when there is mudslinging going on between two members here, then we'll clean that up too. But that's not really censorship; that's just forum hygiene.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    As one of those nasty people, I'm afraid I'll have to be a bit unkind(er).

    I really, really don't like confrontation and calling people out, but I'll have to give a general bollocking to the whole alternative space, at least to the part of it which is now alt-right, conspiratorial, or just outright fascist.

    This so-called alternative community has degenerated into something truly bizarre, a spectacle probably not seen since the 1930s, where all sorts of paranoid fantasies have taken hold of people's minds and made them believe patently untrue stuff.

    That in itself would be relatively harmless, but when coupled with far-right, nationalistic, fascist, etc... views, well, it becomes dangerous. A number of these "alternative" forums have become eco-chambers of alt-right hate and they have a pernicious effect in inflating the egos of the participants in these discussions, where they imagine themselves to be privy to some special insight or secret that others are apparently too dumb to see.

    I'm not singling out anyone, just pointing out the mechanism at work. I too was once somewhat affected by it, so I'm pointing the finger first at myself, by admitting that I have often fallen for such disreputable characters and charlatans in the past. The "alternative" space is chock full of raging narcissists, psychotics, psychopaths, conmen and other assorted unpleasant characters. I think we can all think of a few, even some who were once active participants on this very forum.

    The challenge here is to grow up, admit that you were wrong, or conned, then start again and seek the truth out for yourself, with better discernment and enhanced critical thinking skills. We will never truly know what's actually going on in this world, because most of it is hidden and the really important stuff takes place behind the scenes. But, we can never give up on seeking out the truth and listening to others who may be wiser than ourselves, whichever platform hosts these discussions.

    I think we should all try to avoid engaging in "forum wars", however tempting it might be to diss others who we may have fundamental disagreements with. This is probably the last post I'm going to make on this issue, I plan to ignore the whole us vs them debate from now on. We have more important stuff to deal with right now and I personally think all this back-and-forth between forums is rather childish.
    I know that some of us would have been happy for this thread to have never gotten started but, like eating bad food, purging is a good thing.

    It is just nasty to watch and most of us prefer to vomit in private. This situation is public domain now.

    Choice of thread viewership is an option.

    That said, crisis usually brings people together.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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  13. #67
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    Yes Chris, Society is resembling pre-war Germany with a strong impulse by many towards fascism, under the rubric of 'freedom,'-- the ultimate irony.

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    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post
    I know that some of us would have been happy for this thread to have never gotten started but, like eating bad food, purging is a good thing.

    It is just nasty to watch and most of us prefer to vomit in private. This situation is public domain now.

    Choice of thread viewership is an option.

    That said, crisis usually brings people together.
    That is certainly true, yes.

    On account of this thread being public, as I told Bill today, there are tons of Project Avalon members who have an account here, and whose account is still active because they've never requested retirement, even though many of them had not been visiting this forum anymore in years. And from the moment that Fred was found out about at PA, a whole bunch of those people were suddenly all logging on here again, for days in a row, even though this thread here ─ or the post from Gio on the "Cosmic Emporium" thread which kicked off this exchange ─ did not exist yet. You yourself also noted that we were suddenly getting a lot of traffic.

    Having an active account is of course very useful if you think that there might be some delicious little drama hidden in the forum's members-only section. And yet, the Project Avalon members who do not have an account here still didn't know that we had no secret thread in our members-only section about "The Adventures of Gracy May", in which Fred was supposedly telling us all kinds of juicy stories about life in the PA mod room. Hell, I've been an administrator at PA, and even I didn't come and tell you guys anything about what their mod room looks like and what they discuss there. Such things are confidential, period.

    But what goes on in the publicly visible threads on the other hand gets noticed, even by people who aren't members. And considering that we've got nothing to hide, I chose to make this here into a public thread when I split those posts off from Gio's thread. I wanted them to see with their own eyes that we don't have anything to hide over here. We don't do the paranoia thing, the spy thing, the "us versus them" thing over here ─ been there, done that, it wasn't pretty, and we've owned up to our mistakes.

    It's all still on record, and I could easily delete those posts/threads or move them to members-only, or better still, park them in the mod room. But I chose not to. We've put our cards out on the table. If you never lie, then you also never have to wonder about what version of any given story you've told to what person. The (One) Truth is so much less complicated.

    What I do however have my gripes with are the hypocrites who left here and who are now over there, proud to be part of what they perceive to be an elite, and pointing their fingers at us over here, pretending that they've never partaken in any of the former inter-forum hostility. Because just as my old mistakes are still visible for all to see, so are theirs, and they all seem to have conveniently forgotten about that.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Monk Gio's Avatar
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    Thinking

    IMO ...

    Aragorn (Frank) you extended the peace offering to him several years ago, but nothing other than you being reinstated over there occurred from it ... And that end result has spoken volumes to me into what might be Bill Ryan's real feelings towards those he disapproves of or just merely misconstrues in intent. He probably could care less.

    Noting Bill Ryan has had many opportune moments to make peace with the Alternative forum community in general ... I tend to believe he has never likened the idea of this forum (TOT or any others) premise, for being an outlet for PA2 members to express themselves freely outside PA2 (often too rigid) private forum confines.

    While i will concede Mr Ryan has mastered many leadership skills, it is of my opinion - he has needed to work (more over the years) on his public humbling skills in general ... Though i don't believe he is really willing (and perhaps capable) in developing such at this time of his life?

    I still have to admire his fortitude and stamina ...
    Noting he could have aspired much higher ...
    If only for lack of this human ability.
    Last edited by Gio, 28th January 2022 at 18:20.
    Presenting an alternative to the alternative community.

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    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    IMO ...

    Aragorn (Frank) you extended the peace offering to him several years ago, but nothing other than you being reinstated over there occurred from it ... And that end result has spoken volumes to me into what might be Bill Ryan's real feelings towards those he disapproves of or just merely misconstrues in intent. He probably could care less.

    Noting Bill Ryan has had many opportune moments to make peace with the Alternative forum community in general ... I tend to believe he has never likened the idea of this forum (TOT or any others) premise, for being an outlet for PA2 members to express themselves freely outside PA2 (often too rigid) private forum confines.

    While i will concede Mr Ryan has mastered many leadership skills, it is of my opinion - he has needed to work (more over the years) on his public humbling skills in general ... Though i don't believe he is really willing (and perhaps capable) in developing such at this time of his life?

    I still have to admire his fortitude and stamina ...
    Noting he could have aspired much higher ...
    If only for lack of this human ability.
    The term Perfidious Albion comes to mind. Nuff' said.

    Referring to the contolling classes, not 'the people' who suffer under them too.

    USA has become New Albion. That whole Anglo-Saxon world view thingy.




    Break in thought process, kinda.

    Who can appreciate the supreme irony of this thread title?

    Bill Ryan's personal Question-and-Answer thread. Pile it on.

    He has been piling it on for years. Yes, his fortitude and stamina are remarkable.

    I'll leave the admiration part to Gio.
    Last edited by modwiz, 28th January 2022 at 19:26.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

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    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    There's certainly some high level sock puppet action going on over there right this very minute, with full approval of leader who even thinks it's kind of cute, so as Spock would say: "Fascinating Captain".

    I wonder what should happen to the "accomplices" who are well aware of this?
    Quote Originally posted by PurpleLama View Post
    Ok, Fred, this is quite the curious thing to say. There is someone else going under a different name, or otherwise concealing their identity? With Bill's approval? That is interesting, indeed.
    Curiouser and curiouser ain't it? Seeing how it's all suddenly about transparency, and the horrors of sock puppets, perhaps the history of "Gwin Ru" could be shared with group over yonder.
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 28th January 2022 at 20:35.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Quote Originally posted by PurpleLama View Post
    I almost joked on several occasions, to wonder aloud if iota was the return of jackovesk, but each time I decided not to insult the man. I had almost forgotten about how bad ol' Corey was with the colors and fonts, but even that would give her too much credit by association.

    The thing that pissed me off from the start and all the way through was how she was allowed to attack anyone and everyone who disagreed with her. Gracy, Dennis, Paula, AutumnW, then Dedukshyn, Mike, Aragorn, and quite a few more, I'm sure. How awful does a person have to be before real action is taken? The whole thing can't end well.

    I was glad to finally catch this thread going on, I could have apologized before now, Fred, but I felt it more appropriate to do so in public, given the nature of the situation. Eventually I will get me a PA sock puppet going so I can join in with the 3 you still have active over there. D
    Ha! The beauty is the long game. Gracy didn’t post the first couple years….it’s about time to maybe fire some of mine up
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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    Senior Member PurpleLama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by donk View Post
    Ha! The beauty is the long game. Gracy didn’t post the first couple years….it’s about time to maybe fire some of mine up
    Dude, that would be brilliant! Do you still have both of them?

    Man, I am fired up to get one going, now.
    Sometimes God shines his magic light beam from outer space, and it works in mysterious ways.

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    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    IMO ...

    Aragorn (Frank) you extended the peace offering to him several years ago, but nothing other than you being reinstated over there occurred from it ... And that end result has spoken volumes to me into what might be Bill Ryan's real feelings towards those he disapproves of or just merely misconstrues in intent. He probably could care less.

    Noting Bill Ryan has had many opportune moments to make peace with the Alternative forum community in general ... I tend to believe he has never likened the idea of this forum (TOT or any others) premise, for being an outlet for PA2 members to express themselves freely outside PA2 (often too rigid) private forum confines.
    Well ─ and I'm going to speak Frankly now ─ I must admit that every time I went there, I felt disappointed over the still very strong prejudices and paranoia regarding The One Truth among the Project Avalon member base, which to me suggests that the bridge I've been building has somehow been attached to the side entry of the Project Avalon mod room, rather than to PA's front entrance.

    Of course, when I reached out to Bill several years ago, then that was where I had to start, because as I was the architect on this side of the pond, Bill had to be the architect on the other side of the pond. But it does feel like Bill never appreciated that the bridge was meant to be two-way. I'm not saying that this is how it is, but that's what it feels like to myself.

    Over here at The One Truth, we do talk a lot about Project Avalon, and of course, that has been especially the case now in these last couple of days/weeks, for very legitimate reasons. But the events of these last few weeks not included, when we talk about them, we also do it in quite a neutral way. Some of it will be criticism, and some of it will be congenial, depending on whose voice you hear. And we all do it openly, on public threads.

    But that is not how things are over there. I have the feeling that Project Avalon's member base either doesn't have a clue as to who we are and what we stand for, or else, if they do know about us, then it'll be because of the animosity that used to exist between both forums ─ an animosity that had come about quite naturally at the time, given that most of TOT's member base at the time comprised people who had for whatever reason been banned from PA. And even then still, they generally don't talk about us in public; behind the closed doors of their members-only section, yes, definitely.

    And even then still, the way they talk about us ranges from a regurgitation of the old hostility to mere tolerance. But there's definitely no respect. It's as if many members there ─ not all; let's not paint with too wide a brush here, but many nevertheless ─ think themselves part of some sort of chosen group, an enlightened elite, simply for being members at Project Avalon, which ─ let's be honest ─ is only but an insignificant social medium, just like ours. And if we then also throw in the obsession with and dominance of US-centric politics over there, and for that matter, far-right politics, then I think there's legitimacy in questioning the "enlightened" aspect of their eliteness ─ if that's not a word yet, then it is now.

    I for one certainly don't regard The One Truth as any kind of elite club, and as I've already stated a couple of times, enlightenment cannot be sought or found, because enlightenment must find you. But the thing I've always liked about The One Truth is that this place is much more personal and laid-back. Like a small village, or a hamlet. But then again, I was raised in a small village, with ─ at the time of my childhood ─ only about 1'300 inhabitants. And everyone knew everyone else. It was very peaceful.

    By contrast, Project Avalon is huge, fast-paced, chaotic and hectic, like a metropolitan. I found that quite intimidating when I first joined up there in 2014, and I still find it intimidating today. Or to quote an old rap song from the 1980s, "Too much, too many people, too much."

    Mind you, this is no slant at PA ─ it's only how things have naturally evolved over there. But for myself as an individual, it's too overwhelming and too crowded. And I am also perfectly aware of how that's a very personal thing, and even that my autism may be playing a role in that; I've never liked big cities, because I always get lost in them. I even border on panic whenever I have to go to the nearby mall, which ─ luckily ─ doesn't happen all that often. Except in my nightmares, but I guess that's another story.

    Either way, I do think that Project Avalon's circumference is its Achilles Heel on account of being able to control what goes down there in terms of the energies developing among the member base. And I think ─ emphasis ─ that Bill has become complacent with regard to those wayward energies that have transformed the "Love & Light" meme into "March them off to Gitmo, cut off their heads and stick them on a pike."

    Anyway, that's my take on it, Frankly as ever.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by PurpleLama View Post
    I almost joked on several occasions, to wonder aloud if iota was the return of jackovesk, but each time I decided not to insult the man. I had almost forgotten about how bad ol' Corey was with the colors and fonts, but even that would give her too much credit by association.

    The thing that pissed me off from the start and all the way through was how she was allowed to attack anyone and everyone who disagreed with her. Gracy, Dennis, Paula, AutumnW, then Dedukshyn, Mike, Aragorn, and quite a few more, I'm sure. How awful does a person have to be before real action is taken? The whole thing can't end well.

    I was glad to finally catch this thread going on, I could have apologized before now, Fred, but I felt it more appropriate to do so in public, given the nature of the situation. Eventually I will get me a PA sock puppet going so I can join in with the 3 you still have active over there.
    Wow.
    I remember jacko.
    No idea about the other one............

    Quote Originally posted by modwiz View Post

    Gene pools have their shallow and deep ends.
    I don't know Gene, but it wasn't me pissing in his pool, I was asleep.
    May have been my twin brother, he's a bit dodgy............

    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post

    The only thing we censor here is misinformation that could potentially lead to people dying ─ as with the Covid-19-related junk that Vern has been spamming across multiple threads lately, and that has already gotten people killed ─ or that is otherwise nefarious in some way, like hate speech, political propaganda, etc. And of course, when there is mudslinging going on between two members here, then we'll clean that up too,. But that's not really censorship; that's just forum hygiene.
    Wouldn't you need to translate all that first?
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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