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Thread: The Fred/Gracy Affair, and the Inter-Forum Aftermath Thereof

  1. #271
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    This would be a question for modwiz as well (from back in 2011 for those who weren't around then): I seem to recall a recorded conversation circulating around where Bill fully acknowledges that there's a new group of Avalonians Charles (Stephen Hodges) has hand picked known as "The 18", had no problem with it at that time, but then later on proceeded to throw a public shit fit as though he had been betrayed and had just now learned of it.

    Am I remembering that correctly?
    Yes, you are.
    And he denied knowing, even though we provided the audio to the forum
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  3. #272
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Lord Sidious View Post
    Yes, you are.
    And he denied knowing, even though we provided the audio to the forum
    I love when he does that. Pretends shit is “super-secret” (*cough* Corey Goode *cough*) and that he has NO responsibility. Keep the intrigue up and the spot light just next to him. Classic Bill
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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  5. #273
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by donk View Post
    I love when he does that. Pretends shit is “super-secret” (*cough* Corey Goode *cough*) and that he has NO responsibility. Keep the intrigue up and the spot light just next to him. Classic Bill
    It's a classic how his supporters tried to debunk the audio, too
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  7. #274
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    This forum provides an alternative to the bigger alternative community forums which doesn't have the kind of dysfunctional thinking and personalities that they have. That is what those of this forum different, and why Bill wants to separate PA from it.
    This inevitably leads to conflict when you try to establish a relation with them when you express a different opinion and they show that they don’t tolerate that, and then they see the person with the different opinion as the problem instead of the way that people respond to them, and this kind of behavior by their forum posters is tolerated and accepted. This is while their site leadership shows that they tolerate dysfunctional thinking and personalities, and ignorance on the forum to thrive, especially of the far right conspiratorial thinking kind.

    The unsubscriptions of Aragorn and PurpleLama from PA and the villainizing of Fred show that in the end then it doesn't matter how close to their community that you were and what bond existed, they just don’t care about you as a person, but only about how loyal you are to them and to their group thinking. This is why Bill made it clear no unsubscribed member of TOT would ever be restored, because TOT as a group has shown it is not going to just be loyal to him like he wants.

    This isn't over, because they at PA are going to want to bash TOT again at some point in the future when they get the opportunity, as they recently have gotten.
    Last edited by sourcetruth, 11th May 2022 at 22:48.

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  9. #275
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    ...then they see the person with the different opinion as the problem instead of the way that people respond to them...
    You hit the nail on the head there, sourcetruth. And it hurts a person to be rejected for just an opinion, especially in a forum where that very entity itself, a forum, is a place for discussion of differing opinions.

    If a person continually insists on a position that hasn't stood up to scrutiny or time, then their words hold much less gravitas and maybe the subject even needs to go into a location where others can see that it's been vetted and doesn't hold up. Even then, the person still had their say, at times over and over and over and over.

    But that is better than just making them suspect and them giving them the boot, whether subtle or swift.

    So thanks for the observation.

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  11. #276
    Senior Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Gio View Post
    Oops he did it again ...

    Bill what was determining your decision process allowing for Malisa/Mashika to open this gem of a thread on the forums 'General Discussion' column - for the world to see your wort's and all close up ...

    Just another fine example of your overall poor judgement and leadership skills ...

    Can anyone really wonder why you've gone through so many moderators over the years ...
    I'll tell you what I think is unfair about that statement, Billy Bob's that is. It has been pointed out that this is a forum with a small number of poster's which makes me believe he couldn't have forgotten anyone, why would he make that blanket statement without batting an eyelash. Aianawa has longed to be part of that forum and never did anything untoward before he was unceremoniously permanently banned. That alone tells me the ongoing battle is senseless. Is there truly any reason to relive the horror, the horror, horror (To paraphrase Color Walter E. Kurtz)
    “To seek self-knowledge is to embark on a journey which ... will always be incomplete" - courtesy of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem

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  13. #277
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    I'll tell you what I think is unfair about that statement, Billy Bob's that is. It has been pointed out that this is a forum with a small number of poster's which makes me believe he couldn't have forgotten anyone, why would he make that blanket statement without batting an eyelash. Aianawa has longed to be part of that forum and never did anything untoward before he was unceremoniously permanently banned. That alone tells me the ongoing battle is senseless. Is there truly any reason to relive the horror, the horror, horror (To paraphrase Color Walter E. Kurtz)
    The One Truth has been a thorn in Fearless Leader™'s side ever since its inception, and it is pretty much the only Project Avalon spin-off still standing in 2022. As far as I can tell, The Mists of Avalon and Earth Empaths are still operational, but traffic is so low there that threads which haven't even been updated anymore since as far back as 2017 are still appearing in their list of most recent threads.

    We also know that Fearless Leader™ was never really interested in entertaining a bridge between The One Truth and Project Avalon, and that when he sought to bring me onboard as an administrator at Project Avalon, he was hoping that it would have meant the end of The One Truth. But that didn't quite turn out as he had hoped, because I never left my station here, and I couldn't even bear to remain at Project Avalon for... how long was it, nine months? Ten months?


    This below was my last post in the Project Avalon mod room, submitted at approximately 20:20 Central European Time on the 6th of October 2020.


    Alright, I've been biting my tongue for a while now, and my second Covid-19 bout has also left me drained all week, but you may all trust me on my word that this situation has been eating away on me for a very long time already now. And so now I'm going to speak up. And you're not going to like it.

    Quote Originally posted by Gracy May View Post
    I see a whole lot of business as usual going on behind a very thin veneer of freedom fighting virtue signaling from this present administration. I accept the fact that it seems to only be me who sees this, but dangit when it starts getting to the point of the president's political enemies need to be frog marched down to Gitmo without a trial, and the only way this coming election can be seen as legit is if he wins, I see real danger ahead.

    And we're cheerleading it.

    I don't at all deny the very real danger on the flip side of the coin as well, but it's all so thoroughly scrutinized and documented already there's no real need to go there. Where everyone else sees danger only on one side of the coin, I see it on both sides.

    This forum has always been a treasure trove of dissident voices speaking truth to power wherever it is, ruthlessly researching and laying bare the sins of any and all of it's participants, but I'm seeing none of that lately, save for it's focus only being aimed at one narrow avenue of the political spectrum.

    While giving a free pass to the rest, and having very little patience for internal dissent...
    I wholeheartedly agree with Gracy here, and I don't think I could have said it any better myself. It is true. Regardless of the really interesting things that could be talked about here at Project Avalon ─ and that used to be talked about in the past ─ this forum has been assimilated by the alt-right Borg. And I'm afraid that your reaction here, Bill...

    Quote Originally posted by Bill Ryan View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Gracy May View Post
    having very little patience for internal dissent...
    Hardly. Look at this: (referring to Trump with Covid)

    Quote Originally posted by frodo13 View Post
    Karma is a bitch
    The post stands, as it should. No censorship, though it was a cheap shot.

    The same here: (extracted)

    Quote Originally posted by Praxis View Post
    The october Surprise is going to be the final revelation that you all support a rapist and pedophile.
    Praxis is pretty much Avalon's last remaining SJW, after Mark/Rahkyt retired himself.

    There aren't many comments like that: just the occasional one. They don't do the forum much credit for their quality, but there's definitely tolerance — a slightly different word for 'patience'.

    ... illustrates that you are in denial about the issue, because to you, these people are just honorable libertarians and freedom fighters, while their opponents are labeled "social justice warriors".

    Well, I am not a US American, and I have spoken my mind about the dumbed-down and corrupted-indoctrination-driven bipartisan US political system on more than one occasion. I am also strongly opposed to authoritarianism, and I also refer to myself as a libertarian, but ─ and here's the difference ─ I am a progressive libertarian. I don't know whether you could call me a socialist ─ which has become a dirty word around here, because all of those brave "freedom fighters" seem to be under the impression that it's some sort of totalitarian ideology ─ but I have been on the receiving end of social injustice more than I care to remember, and in certain ways, I still am.

    Now, I am perfectly aware of the fact that a lot of the "social justice warrior" culture is based upon nothing other than indoctrination ─ from the opposite camp of that bipartisan dictatorship ─ in combination with high degrees of neuroticism. But social injustice is real. Racism is real. Systemic racism is real in the United States of America (and in certain other countries).

    Now, I'm going to take a shortcut here because I don't want to get too verbose about this matter, but let's just say that something's got to give, and I have now made up my mind. As of right now ─ and I am really sorry if anyone here were to feel that I'd be abandoning them ─ I am stepping down as administrator here at Project Avalon, and I will also be retiring my account. I've got too many things going on in my life already, and to me, my role here at Project Avalon has always been a responsibility that I took on out of altruism and friendship.

    But now, I just can't stand being here anymore. The alt-right infiltration ─ and as Gracy said earlier, these are not libertarians, these are hard-right bigots ─ was already quite overwhelming when I returned after a long hiatus, but now it has become unbearable, especially in combination with other stupidity that I see being posted here, such as the whole Covid denialism movement, and then this post ─ made by a staff member, no less ─ on a thread that has already been a thorn in my side since 2015.

    As a scientist and an officially diagnosed high-functioning autistic adult, with several of my family members and friends also on the spectrum, such misinformation and the cloak of kindness with which it is being tolerated here ─ notwithstanding that, just as with the alt-right political vantage, these people really don't need to be sheltered or protected, because they're perfectly capable of ripping someone's throat out with their bare hands all by themselves ─ I am embarrassed to still have to tell anyone that I'm a member here, let alone a staff member.

    And then, as the icing on this cake, allow me to throw in the fact that I've had to discover by accident that after all this time, Simon Parkes still has an active account here. Yes, he hasn't logged in anymore since 2016, but he has also not been banned from here, which, given his financial and sexual predation among the member base here would have been the right thing to do.

    Therefore, once again, I'm sorry for letting anyone down, but I don't need this agony in my life anymore, and I don't want to be associated with a forum that ─ in spite of the many good people who are still active here ─ is not only harboring but also secretly sympathetic to closet fascists who don't even know that they're fascists because they don't even understand what fascism is. I've got too many other things on my plate, I've got too many health issues to deal with on top of all that ─ even without my current reinfection with Covid-19 ─ and enough is enough.

    I will still be available for a friendly chat or for some technical advice via my private email address ─ I have not suddenly become an enemy to this forum or its staff ─ but I am now going to retire my account, I am also going to log out of the Project Avalon server on the Discord chat, and I will be removing myself from the admin@ and staff@ mailing lists. For security reasons, Tommy should remove me as administrator of the Google Admin Console ─ it does not allow me to do this myself. I also recommend that Tommy would revoke my access to the control panel of the Project Avalon server, also for security reasons.

    I have thought long and hard about all of this ─ this is not a rash decision ─ and again I'm sorry if I'm disappointing anyone, but I have now finally decided to bite the bullet, and my decision is not negotiable. I wish you all the best.


    Next, the Fred/Gracy affair prompted Fearless Leader™ to single-handedly ban both Gio and myself, without any reason given and without any notification thereof — and in my case, it was the second time that he personally banned me without having consulted with his staff, and without that there was any valid reason to do so.

    The first time he banned me — on the 18th of March 2015 — he did it because I was privately confronting him with the fact that he was actively protecting Simon Parkes, which he vehemently denied, and which later on turned out — as I was literally told by Christine Anderson, his former wife and ex-moderator of Project Avalon — to be the case because Simon Parkes had preemptively threatened to sue Fearless Leader™ over charges of libel as soon as he (i.e. Pervy Simon) had heard that members were filing complaints about him to the Project Avalon mod room. And as you can see from my last PA mod room post above, by the 6th of October 2020, Simon Parkes had still not been banned from Project Avalon, and that was also still not the case when the Fred/Gracy thing came to the surface — I checked his profile page when my account was briefly reinstated after "Gracy" had been unmasked as having been Fred in disguise. Yes, indeed: to this very day, Pervy Simon Parkes still enjoys an active (albeit currently unused) membership at PA.

    In Fearless Leader™'s last communication with me, he was full of criticism and allegations toward the members here at The One Truth, but gratuitously dismissive of my argument that his own flock was exponentially worse, and that he allowed his then pet iota (and others) to attack and bully other members with impunity — including myself, right under his nose, without that he or any of his mods intervened.

    To me, it is very clear that Fearless Leader™ considers Project Avalon an elite venue, while his own judgement, opinions and ethics are flexible enough to swing from common sense into full-on populism in a heartbeat so as to remain in the grace of the alt-right mob that has taken over his forum. Fred's deception turned from — and I quote — "a Shakespearean tragedy" into an instant diagnosis with full-on sociopathy overnight, because the self-righteous and ego-driven alt-right mob was lusting for blood and wanted Fred's head on a pike. They even accused him of spear-phishing and of having mentally raped Malisa/Mashika — I suppose that after her histrionic thread of recent, I too will probably have been accused of that in the meantime.

    Fearless Leader™ will rather be a Mr. Popular than a Mr. Righteous, and if you keep into account that he's a proven narcissist and that how he is perceived is more important to him than who or what he really is, then it all makes perfect sense. The more he does, the more he reveals himself for what he refuses to acknowledge that he is: superficiality, vindictiveness, and appearances before honor and ethics. And "us vs. them", with us over here being the "them", of course.

    mojo — bless him — tried to restore the bridge after Fearless Leader™ blew it up without a qualm, but his reconciliatory thread was immediately closed and moved out of sight. "Freedom of speech", "Love & Light", yay! Fearless Leader™ even deleted the thread redirect, which is not how things are normally done over at PA when they move a thread to a different category. But Malisa/Mashika starts a public shaming thread full of histrionics, and yet that one is then allowed to remain publicly visible, exactly because that sort of thing makes up for the bread & circuses that this self-assumed elite forum population of enlightened and awake & aware individuals thrives on, and because Fearless Leader™ knows all too well how vicious his flock can get, which in turn allows him to bask in that vindictiveness and hubris.

    At least we over here at The One Truth have never had or pretended to have any such delusion of grandeur. We know that we're just a bunch of insignificant people on a small forum, and we over here have real values, real honor, and real transparency.


    Over here at The One Truth, what you see is what you get. That's why it's called The One Truth.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  15. #278
    Senior Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    The One Truth has been a thorn in Fearless Leader™'s side ever since its inception, and it is pretty much the only Project Avalon spin-off still standing in 2022. As far as I can tell, The Mists of Avalon and Earth Empaths are still operational, but traffic is so low there that threads which haven't even been updated anymore since as far back as 2017 are still appearing in their list of most recent threads.

    We also know that Fearless Leader™ was never really interested in entertaining a bridge between The One Truth and Project Avalon, and that when he sought to bring me onboard as an administrator at Project Avalon, he was hoping that it would have meant the end of The One Truth. But that didn't quite turn out as he had hoped, because I never left my station here, and I couldn't even bear to remain at Project Avalon for... how long was it, nine months? Ten months?

    [...]

    Next, the Fred/Gracy affair prompted Fearless Leader™ to single-handedly ban both Gio and myself, without any reason given and without any notification thereof — and in my case, it was the second time that he personally banned me without having consulted with his staff, and without that there was any valid reason to do so.

    The first time he banned me — on the 18th of March 2015 — he did it because I was privately confronting him with the fact that he was actively protecting Simon Parkes, which he vehemently denied, and which later on turned out — as I was literally told by Christine Anderson, his former wife and ex-moderator of Project Avalon — to be the case because Simon Parkes had preemptively threatened to sue Fearless Leader™ over charges of libel as soon as he (i.e. Pervy Simon) had heard that members were filing complaints about him to the Project Avalon mod room. And as you can see from my last PA mod room post above, by the 6th of October 2020, Simon Parkes had still not been banned from Project Avalon, and that was also still not the case when the Fred/Gracy thing came to the surface — I checked his profile page when my account was briefly reinstated after "Gracy" had been unmasked as having been Fred in disguise. Yes, indeed: to this very day, Pervy Simon Parkes still enjoys an active (albeit currently unused) membership at PA.

    In Fearless Leader™'s last communication with me, he was full of criticism and allegations toward the members here at The One Truth, but gratuitously dismissive of my argument that his own flock was exponentially worse, and that he allowed his then pet iota (and others) to attack and bully other members with impunity — including myself, right under his nose, without that he or any of his mods intervened.

    To me, it is very clear that Fearless Leader™ considers Project Avalon an elite venue, while his own judgement, opinions and ethics are flexible enough to swing from common sense into full-on populism in a heartbeat so as to remain in the grace of the alt-right mob that has taken over his forum. Fred's deception turned from — and I quote — "a Shakespearean tragedy" into an instant diagnosis with full-on sociopathy overnight, because the self-righteous and ego-driven alt-right mob was lusting for blood and wanted Fred's head on a pike. They even accused him of spear-phishing and of having mentally raped Malisa/Mashika — I suppose that after her histrionic thread of recent, I too will probably have been accused of that in the meantime.

    Fearless Leader™ will rather be a Mr. Popular than a Mr. Righteous, and if you keep into account that he's a proven narcissist and that how he is perceived is more important to him than who or what he really is, then it all makes perfect sense. The more he does, the more he reveals himself for what he refuses to acknowledge that he is: superficiality, vindictiveness, and appearances before honor and ethics. And "us vs. them", with us over here being the "them", of course.

    mojo — bless him — tried to restore the bridge after Fearless Leader™ blew it up without a qualm, but his reconciliatory thread was immediately closed and moved out of sight. "Freedom of speech", "Love & Light", yay! Fearless Leader™ even deleted the thread redirect, which is not how things are normally done over at PA when they move a thread to a different category. But Malisa/Mashika starts a public shaming thread full of histrionics, and yet that one is then allowed to remain publicly visible, exactly because that sort of thing makes up for the bread & circuses that this self-assumed elite forum population of enlightened and awake & aware individuals thrives on, and because Fearless Leader™ knows all too well how vicious his flock can get, which in turn allows him to bask in that vindictiveness and hubris.

    At least we over here at The One Truth have never had or pretended to have any such delusion of grandeur. We know that we're just a bunch of insignificant people on a small forum, and we over here have real values, real honor, and real transparency.


    Over here at The One Truth, what you see is what you get. That's why it's called The One Truth.
    Man, what you say is true. That's all I can say.
    Last edited by Aragorn, 14th May 2022 at 22:55. Reason: snipped your quotes
    “To seek self-knowledge is to embark on a journey which ... will always be incomplete" - courtesy of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem

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  17. #279
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    Man, what you say is true. That's all I can say.
    Maybe Fearless Leader™ ought to stop and wonder for a moment why Project Avalon spun off so many other forums over the years, and why several of them still remain operational to this very day, even if they see far less traffic and have far fewer active members.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Wanting the spinoffs to die is a huge indicator of where the ego is at. If a person wanted to continue to spread the truth and the 'word' they would welcome the growth. The spin-offs should be a sign of success and ideas and communities spreading.

    The fact that the Captain of that ship wants the others to die speaks volumes. That captain doesn't want truth spread, he wants his following to remain his.

    And his waters have grown quite shallow.

    That's how it unfolds when the dynamic is selfish rather than about the truth and community.


    This forum's founder is a father and husband with a busy life who does not lead this ship around by the nose. He leaves it to us because he trusts us. And he's too busy with his job and family to be a 'Dear Leader' which we don't need anyway.

    The real anchor in this shire is Aragorn.

    I hope Bill, one day, understands the value of the man he crapped all over. I know I can see which is the honorable man and which is the fool.

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    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    This forum's founder is a father and husband with a busy life who does not lead this ship around by the nose. He leaves it to us because he trusts us. And he's too busy with his job and family to be a 'Dear Leader' which we don't need anyway.
    He's a pie eatin nugget, ya mean
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1502833
    Bill Ryan:
    My own personal experience is slightly qualified, a little unusual inasmuch as I'm a minor public figure. And there are people to this day, some who've I've never met or ever interacted with, who post stuff on social media about me that's hateful, snide, inaccurate, vindictive and immature.

    When I first encountered this, I was bewildered and hurt. It was like this Larson cartoon:
    Then I developed an increasingly thick skin. One develops that after this has happened over and over again. I still get hurt sometimes, but only very rarely, only when someone who I really thought was a true friend had suddenly (in my opinion) betrayed me. The last time that happened was 3 years ago.

    So I've learned not to "be nice", but to ignore the critics and trolls. My energy and time is finite — as anyone's is — and so it's like a strategic management exercise to focus my time, energy and attention on things that seem to be useful, and not to get into firefights with people just because I feel like letting off steam.

    And besides, as a mod here I get to use the one-click "ban" button, which is the internet equivalent of a firing squad. Simply ending someone's virtual existence.

    So with "Gracy May", for instance, and also Frank (Aragorn), whose actions really did anger and disgust me, I simply banned them both and apologized sincerely to the Avalon community for not figuring it all out much earlier.

    But after that, I never said or wrote a thing to them. They can work out their own karma in their own time without any help from me. I'm not their guide, or teacher, or jailer. They can be on their own with all that.
    It’s easy to ignore criticism when those that follow him don’t seem to mind or care about it. He can just retreat back into the bubble that he created where he has nothing to worry about. No matter how close he was to someone, such as Aragorn, he won't even have enough decency to explain their ban to them.

    As for the rest of the thread: How do they react when someone stops “being nice all the time” to them?

  24. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to sourcetruth For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (18th June 2022), Aragorn (18th June 2022), Dreamtimer (18th June 2022)

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