The Fred/Gracy Affair, and the Inter-Forum Aftermath Thereof

[Chester]

I'm on a third life now... everything's changed

[Lord Sidious]

I'm on a third life now... everything's changed

Greedy bugger.

This is the video I made for Jorr and Maria.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06dtRxXTDZ4

[Fred Steeves]

I've just deleted several posts that were off topic. Chuckie, stop derailing threads please.

[sourcetruth]

There are many times where we only see what we want to see in others, for our own good or bad reasons. This goes for both the good and the bad in others, while we need to see both. I have been guilty of this before, as we all have been before.

[PurpleLama]

There are many times where we only see what we want to see in others, for our own good or bad reasons. This goes for both the good and the bad in others, while we need to see both. I have been guilty of this before, as we all have been before.

That sounds like you may have strayed some from the material you were promoting a while back.

If so, congratulations are in order. Life is a process.

Some other thread would be better than this one, should a discussion arise.

[sourcetruth]

That sounds like you may have strayed some from the material you were promoting a while back.

If so, congratulations are in order. Life is a process.

Some other thread would be better than this one, should a discussion arise.

I'm actually not talking about the material that I had talked about a while ago, which I don't talk about here anymore, but I am talking about the discussions with others that I had relating to it. I already said what I wanted to say in regards to that topic, and that thread was closed a while ago, so that conversation has been over for a while. Unless someone else wants to talk about it more, then I just don't bring it up here.

[Aianawa]

Hi SourceT, you do not bring it up here because ?.

Asking because it may be similar or not to what i do not talk about here or not allowed to.

Unfortunately for our mods, the truth and integrity regards Ivermectin made it out into the real ( illusion ) world, lol by science and peer review, funny really as here they are still hanging onto the old false science even now that it has been shown to have been an agenda and here they have been shown the peer reviewed studies even, mmm the one truth will preveil though when ready imo.

Interested anyway Source, may be safer to pm me.

Hi SourceT, you do not bring it up here because ?.

Asking because it may be similar or not to what i do not talk about here or not allowed to.

Unfortunately for our mods, the truth and integrity regards Ivermectin made it out into the real ( illusion ) world, lol by science and peer review, funny really as here they are still hanging onto the old false science even now that it has been shown to have been an agenda and here they have been shown the peer reviewed studies even, mmm the one truth will preveil though when ready imo.

Interested anyway Source, may be safer to pm me.

If about Trump or 2020 election fraud or Hunters laptop, do not bother as will be years for many minds to comprehend.

[sourcetruth]

Hi SourceT, you do not bring it up here because ?.

Asking because it may be similar or not to what i do not talk about here or not allowed to.

I wasn't talking about anything that you talk about, I was just talking about spiritual material that I posted when I first came to the forum.
This was my reason that I don't bring it up:

I already said what I wanted to say in regards to that topic, and that thread was closed a while ago, so that conversation has been over for a while. Unless someone else wants to talk about it more, then I just don't bring it up here.

I just don't bring up something that I had discussed at length before because I have already talked about it enough, and I don't see a need to talk about it again unless someone else wants to talk about it again.

[Aianawa]

Fair enough.

I do feel a wee bit like FG here sometimes, as in to be able to keep connection and friends, many do not know who i am except their perceptions rite or wrong.

[Aragorn]

Unfortunately for our mods, the truth and integrity regards Ivermectin made it out into the real ( illusion ) world, lol by science and peer review, funny really as here they are still hanging onto the old false science even now that it has been shown to have been an agenda and here they have been shown the peer reviewed studies even, mmm the one truth will preveil though when ready imo.

What the peer-reviewed studies regarding Ivermectin have shown, Vern, is that it has no beneficial effects whatsoever with regard to Covid-19. But as always, you grab hold of that last straw of hope of the alt-right to win people over to their cause without actually following up on whether the information was true or false.

You don't care about the truth, Vern. You only care about your truth, and selling it to the public at face value. It's called confirmation bias, and sadly enough, it makes up 95% of everything you post here on the forum. And then I'm not even getting into the fact that this is not a thread about Covid-19, Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine or whatever, and that nobody here brought up any of those things in the last couple of weeks, which means that you are willfully hijacking this thread to once again further your agenda.

You are treacherously and carefully throwing your (proven) misinformation out there without actually derailing the thread, and in such a way that it's too subliminal to meet any resistance and be refuted — which in your mind means you've scored a victory. Even Dreamtimer fell for it, because she thanked your post. But I spotted it, and I can perfectly see your strategy.

Do it once again and I'll ban you from the thread. Is that sufficiently clear, or do you need me to draw a picture with that?

[sourcetruth]

It turns out that I was right about Malisa/Mashika and Project Avalon.
I agree with the general sentiment and comments here about project avalon and bill ryan.
I have already explained similar criticisms about project avalon of them ganging up against people, against me in particular, in previous posts of mine.
This kind of behavior of ganging up as a group against certain people is a feature of groups that try to assert dominance over the way of thinking of their members. When they can get people to act together against someone or something, they reinforce the individual’s tendency to follow the group and think with the group, instead of thinking independently.
In trying to build a bridge and see the good in others, you tried to ignore the bad. This is understandable, it is good to try and make up with others to try to re-establish a relationship when that relationship has been broken in the past. However, the bad was still there, and it led to the bridge being broken again. If you had taken more note of the bad, you would have been more careful. Past manipulative behavior should always make one be weary of someone in the future, especially if they turn around and pretend to be your friend.
The experiences that I shared that I had with them was one way that the bad was showing and could be seen.

And that takes us to this other two-faced person of whom I thought she was a friend...

Anyway, fool me once, shame on you, but fool me twice, shame on me. I trusted you, and yet you turn out to be just another backstabber.

You've just lost a friend, Masha. I'm not going to ban you, but your account will be retired, and I am also banning you from this thread here, so that you're going to have to put yourself through the trouble of asking one of the other hypocrites at PA who keep an eagle eye on this thread to take some screenshots for you.

Malisa had behaved in a confrontational and mean attitude to several memebers, most of all to me. On other forums, she also displayed similar behavior towards others.
She was intentionally mean to those that she disagreed with. Her intent was to feel like she was winning by being able to intimidate the other person into backing down.
However, it didn’t work with me, which is why she had tried for so long. She kept wanting to argue me for a long time.
Her attitude is also that of superiority and condenscending to others, of trying to talk them down.

People with that attitude are not the kinds of people who you should trust. It could have been easily seen what kind of person she was by the way that she treated others. Although they will pretend to be your friend, they will abandon and backstab you to fit in with the larger crowd over the smaller crowd. These kinds of people want to fit in with the larger crowd just to fit into it, even if the larger crowd is wrong.

She cared so much about defending project avalon and bill ryan. I am not completely sure why, but I understand how it came to be. She likes to be part of their group. Her fondness for them started when she joined them in arguing against and attacking me, and it grew from there. Then she was accepted by others there, and she became a part of their community. That is how she came to be defensive of them.
She started to turn against TOT when she was told not to make ad hominem arguments and be aggressive towards others.

[Aragorn]

It turns out that I was right about Malisa/Mashika and Project Avalon.
I agree with the general sentiment and comments here about project avalon and bill ryan.
I have already explained similar criticisms about project avalon of them ganging up against people, against me in particular, in previous posts of mine.
This kind of behavior of ganging up as a group against certain people is a feature of groups that try to assert dominance over the way of thinking of their members. When they can get people to act together against someone or something, they reinforce the individual’s tendency to follow the group and think with the group, instead of thinking independently.

Yes, and that is textbook cult mentality, including the figurehead of the Fearless Leader™, who in reality is like the emperor without clothes.

In trying to build a bridge and see the good in others, you tried to ignore the bad. This is understandable, it is good to try and make up with others to try to re-establish a relationship when that relationship has been broken in the past. However, the bad was still there, and it led to the bridge being broken again. If you had taken more note of the bad, you would have been more careful. Past manipulative behavior should always make one be weary of someone in the future, especially if they turn around and pretend to be your friend.
The experiences that I shared that I had with them was one way that the bad was showing and could be seen.

No, it's not that I had become blind to the bad. I was well aware of it — and painfully reminded of it at times, even though I usually kept my mouth shut for the sake of the bridge — but I was instead appealing unto the good and trying to draw that out of them. I wanted them to forget about the bad within them, including the Fearless Leader™. Because truth be told, I was already long aware that he is, indeed, a clinical narcissist, but I was — perhaps vainly — hoping to be able to turn him into a better human being by setting an example and showing him the way.

Alas, one cannot change the nature of the beast.

Malisa had behaved in a confrontational and mean attitude to several memebers, most of all to me. On other forums, she also displayed similar behavior towards others.
She was intentionally mean to those that she disagreed with. Her intent was to feel like she was winning by being able to intimidate the other person into backing down.
However, it didn’t work with me, which is why she had tried for so long. She kept wanting to argue me for a long time.
Her attitude is also that of superiority and condenscending to others, of trying to talk them down.

People with that attitude are not the kinds of people who you should trust. It could have been easily seen what kind of person she was by the way that she treated others. Although they will pretend to be your friend, they will abandon and backstab you to fit in with the larger crowd over the smaller crowd. These kinds of people want to fit in with the larger crowd just to fit into it, even if the larger crowd is wrong.

She cared so much about defending project avalon and bill ryan. I am not completely sure why, but I understand how it came to be. She likes to be part of their group. Her fondness for them started when she joined them in arguing against and attacking me, and it grew from there. Then she was accepted by others there, and she became a part of their community. That is how she came to be defensive of them.
She started to turn against TOT when she was told not to make ad hominem arguments and be aggressive towards others.

And yet, we have in our mod room here several reported private conversations between myself and her, in which she was ranting and fuming about Project Avalon, and — check this out — while pretending to be her younger sister. It makes for a very interesting read.

So she's not just a backstabber, but she's also a two-faced opportunist and a compulsive liar.

I found it particularly interesting how I had to explain to her how to use a proxy server for connecting to The One Truth. We are by default blocking all connections from Russia due to an incessant barrage of registration attempts from Russian bots and hackers, and so I had to explain to her how to use a proxy server — I even gave her a list of free proxy servers that she wouldn't have to pay for — and how to pick one that itself isn't hosted in Russia, which she had difficulty understanding.

And then — check this out — a few months later, she PM'd me here to tell me that "there is something wrong with our software" because she kept on getting logged out, which was quite obviously because she was by her own admission blocking all cookies from the forum. And when I tried to make that clear to her, she got aggressive and arrogant, telling me "not to treat her as a dumb child", because "she's a programmer in artificial intelligence".

Well, I don't think someone involved with programming artificial intelligence would be so ignorant about cookies and proxy servers as she was. But then again, maybe the quality of her course in "programming for artificial intelligence" was suffering a little from being taught in the trenches of the Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine, with all those bombshells going off all around her. Kinda difficult to study that way, you know? You can barely hear the teacher, the blackboard is full of holes from those AK-47 rounds, and just as you're asking the student next to you whether you can look at his notes, a mortar grenade detonates on his desk. Damn!

Maybe with a little more effort, she could concoct a story in which she was a member of the Russian secret space program, and then Project Avalon's Fearless Leader™ has his next real-deal must-believe 100% reliable super-duper inside whistleblower. After all, it's been a while now since he launched yet another storyteller into stardom, and the clock is ticking, you know...

[Gio]

Bingo !

[Aragorn]

Bingo !

Well, given that Project Avalon's Fearless Leader™ only allows communication between Project Avalon and The One Truth when it's a one-sided (and unequivocally false) allegation toward us while hush-hushing away any serious attempts at inter-forum communication and reconciliation, I will be replying to some of Malisa/Mashika's statements here, so that she will be able to read them, as well as the other two idiots who replied to her thread. Because we are transparent, we are honest and sincere, and we still have a sense of honor and dignity.

And yes, I count Fearless Leader™ among those idiots, since he still doesn't understand first thing about autism, and yet he likes to prostrate himself before his faithful flock as an expert in psychology and neurology. So let me address that little bit first, before I get into replying to Malisa.

The belief that autistic people are devoid of empathy is completely false, and based purely upon the superficial observation of an autistic person's physical reactions — and even then still, it usually pertains to a low-functioning autistic person. It has nothing to do with what an autistic person — and especially not a high-functioning autistic person — is actually feeling.

Auties have a far greater quantity of mirror neurons and are generally far more empathetic than non-autistic people, unless they are afflicted with one of the well-known cluster personality disorders such as narcissism and/or psychopathy. The well-respected and longstanding Project Avalon member Simon "they will never ban me from PA" Parkes is a textbook example of an autistic psychopath. He has no empathy whatsoever, and by consequence, also no sense of ethics, no sense of guilt, no remorse, no compassion, and no mercy.

Instead of reading alt-right pseudoscience inside of an echo chamber, you — i.e. Project Avalon's Fearless Leader™ — may actually want to delve into some truly scientific studies regarding autism. And I will give you a very important hint too: make sure those studies do not come from US American psychiatrists/neurologists, because they're still lagging about 50 years behind on their European colleagues.

And there's a reason for that too, namely that Hans Asperger's research was banned in the USA after World War II because it was in German. It was only in the 1970s that someone in the USA had the courage of revisiting Asperger's work, but the American prejudices and misunderstandings regarding autism have remained, and are still being perpetrated by the pseudoscientific nonsense merchants of the ultra-conservative alt-right community that you — i.e. the Bwana from Ghana (© Gio) — have now so comfortably settled yourself into.

---

And now onto Malisa. I do have to say that she does have quite a sense of drama, and I can also see how her sense of drama would be perfectly in tune with the general hypocrisy ruling Project Avalon. So here goes.

I'm sorry Frank, i did not think you could get this low, to even lie and insult me this way, it's more like pure hate right now, even if i never tried to hurt you in any way for real.

How can you not get it? This is but hurting to the max level, to the point you look like murderous against me

Very Shakespearean. Bravo. If I were a typical Project Avalon member, I'd fall for it, hook-line-sinker. Well done. You're a good actress, but not good enough yet. Maybe you ought to study Meryl Streep instead of Kim Kardashian. Or for that matter, ita.

I do not hate you. Seriously, I do not hate you. But after what you have done, I also cannot respect you anymore, and I loathe your duplicity and your backstabbing. And I do tend to make fun of people (and concepts) that I loathe. It's called sarcasm.

Also, nothing of what I said was a lie, because as I said in the post of mine that you are responding to, we've got all of that stuff on record in the mod room. I could copy and paste it here, even, but that would be unethical, because it's all stuff from private messages between yourself and myself — which I did report to the mod room whenever it concerned something that I felt was important enough to share with the management here, although I did not report each and every conversation we've ever had.

The PMs that you sent me while pretending to be your younger sister, ranting about how Project Avalon had so badly mistreated you — "you" in this sentence referring to yourself, Malisa, not to your sister, who was supposedly using your account, both here and at Project Avalon — were among the ones I reported to the mod room. As the matter of fact, I synchronistically happened to come upon that report thread again in our archives only a few days ago while I was looking for an old report thread on something completely unrelated.

And once again, you had my private email, you could have questioned privately about what i said, but nope, you chose your path. I asked you about what happened, and your replies were motivated by helping Gred, you never once said anything supporting to me

You also had my private email address, and you had an active account here, and you could have asked me that question of why I retired Christian when he sabotaged his email address so that his notification emails would bounce, while I did not do the same thing with your account when your own notification emails bounced. I already gave you that answer earlier, but I'll reiterate: you were still connecting here, while Christian had made it abundantly clear in literal wording that he was not coming back.

It's that simple. And you could have asked me that over here, or by way of an email. But instead of asking me, you went into that members-only witch-hunting thread at Project Avalon and rhetorically asked that very same question there, with the clear intent of casting suspicion on myself after I had already been banned from Project Avalon for no reason by Fearless Leader™ himself, and without even having been notified of such, and thus, without that I would even have known about your question if someone else had not brought it to my attention. That's not just stupid, Masha; that's malevolence.

I'm not a liar, Masha. You are. You're playing games with people. You're telling people conflicting stories, and you're incredibly capricious. You'll go away on a long journey and you won't be back in a long time, and then two days later you're back as if nothing happened. You were the Captain of a Russian guerrilla team of teenagers in the trenches in Ukraine and you didn't know how to set up a proxy server, but you're also a programmer in artificial intelligence development. Right.

Project Avalon might believe you — in fact, I'm pretty certain that they will — but someone with my life's experience isn't going to fall for that anymore, nor for your crocodile tears. And believe me, I usually do fall for that stuff, because I'm a big softie — much more so than your new buddy, Fearless Leader™, whose empathy is only feigned. But then again, he's a good actor too, and he too had me fooled for a while. The two of you will probably make a good tag team, and history has already abundantly shown that Project Avalon loves tag teams.

Anyways, here's this, it's not even worth quoting and replying much more than say this is as stupid as stupidity can get. This is pure hate, and that's all i have to say about it

Nope, I don't hate you. I actually feel sorry for you, because you must have a badly fucked-up ego to be putting on such a display and to be playing those games the way you have been doing all along.

I don't hate you at all. But I will never trust you again after what you did. That's a given. And I'm not the only one here who feels this way.

I wonder how did you figure to ask me to accept Gred as a friend, regardless of what he did, but you are not able to forgive me, for a way much lesser 'sin'.

You are completely misrepresenting things — again, because you did it before at Project Avalon, in that members-only thread where you were talking behind my back.

First of all, I did not ask you to accept Fred as a friend. What I did tell you was that Fred's friendship for you and his attempts to listen to you and counsel you while he was still pretending to be Gracy May, were genuine, and that he truly did care for you. But because he had painted himself into a corner by pretending to be somebody else, he could not tell you the truth about that, as much as he wanted to.

After you found out the truth of his false identity, you went ballistic — we've got all of that on record in the mod room too — and you hated his guts. Now, I can perfectly relate to how you were really feeling about that beneath the hyperbole, because I have been in a similar situation myself once, and I did tell you that story. But you continued going ballistic and you absolutely hated Fred, and I just couldn't talk any sense into you.

All I was asking you to do was to consider Fred's vantage, and how all of that had evolved beyond his control due to him having painted himself into a corner. And I believe I may have asked you to forgive him, and to consider that his friendship was genuine.

But due to your hyperbolic reaction and the pressure you were putting on myself at the time, I realize now that I may not have worded things as well as I should have. Because that is one of my autism-related shortcomings: when I am experiencing stress, then my communication skills start failing and then my dyslexia kicks into overdrive, and I then choose the wrong words, even at the risk of sounding blunt, even though I must say that I don't believe I was being blunt with you.

And here's another thing for you to ponder... How is Fred's impersonation of Gracy May over at Project Avalon any worse than the games you have been playing with people, and that you're still playing now over at Project Avalon? Fred lied about his identity. You lied about almost everything else.

---

The above is all that I'm responding to from your Project Avalon post, Masha, because the rest of it is merely a dramatic repetition of what you had already said higher up in said post. I am also not going to be monitoring that Project Avalon thread, because that place just makes me nauseous. This was a one-time response to your opening post on said PA thread, and this is where the communication ends for me.

Again, I do not hate you. But you've lost my respect. I was also not singling you out in my previous post on this thread here, but you were being brought up by someone else regarding your earlier behavior, and so I simply responded to that. With a more than fair dose of sarcasm, I'll admit that, but then again, when someone causes me to lose my respect for them, then they are fair game for such a treatment.

After all, I have feelings too, notwithstanding Fearless Leader™'s feeble attempts at making Project Avalon believe that he's an expert psychologist — who cannot even see the beam in his own eye and should therefore not be commenting on the splinter in the eyes of other people — and you did betray not just myself, but even this very forum, where you had always been welcomed with respect, honesty and genuine friendship. And you did it while surrounding yourself with sycophants, hypocrites, overinflated egos and emotional manipulators.

Of course, you are not the only one to have betrayed us and lied to us, but then let it be your consolation that those others, too, are fair game for sarcasm from my end — Fearless Leader™ up front.

[Lord Sidious]

I just find it disappointing that it went this way for the pair of you.