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Thread: Conspiracy

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    Conspiracy

    I thought it would be useful to have a separate thread on taking a critical look at conspiracies, not just theories, but real, actual ones and to try and determine, collectively, which of them may have merit and which ones are just crazy talk.

    To start us off, It's worth studying the below chart, which is quite useful I think. I don't fully agree with this classification, but it's pretty entertaining and informative anyways.



    One thing I would note, that some of the CTs that were placed in the top "batshit crazy" category are actually demonstrably true, although the chart does not elaborate on what they mean under certain terms.

    For instance, secret Satanic Rituals are a real thing, I know people who do them personally, although of course it is a matter of whether you imagine that the "elites" are involved in this thing on a mass scale and whether human sacrifice is involved. Certainly, Jimmy Savile's case should make you think twice.

    Another one is "Hollywood is turning your kids gay" and the "Trans Agenda", whilst obviously there is some amount of moral panic and exaggeration involved, there is no question that there is a concerted, super not secret effort to normalise (and legalise) LGBTQ lifestyles worldwide, of which Hollywood is very much an integral part. It isn't a conspiracy theory when it is an openly admitted aim of the political left and many corporations.

    There are other examples, but this should suffice for now.

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    Considering that this thread is a more generic and honest approach toward the conspiracy theory phenomenon ─ as opposed to that it would be aiming to become an echo chamber ─ I am moving it to the Watchdog category for now.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    This is funny, but really just tells me that people don't know jack shit and it can be super depressing to think about. The worst thing about the truth and conspiracy facts is that there are also lies and bullshit theories mixed together with all of it so that people would be confused. Also the other reason is to make people look crazy in the eyes of the public. Critical thinking is a skill and everyone ain't got that. Qanon for example is on a whole new level of nuttery and Flat Earthers make the likes of Alex Jones look like a genius.

    "Grounded in reality". Who defines what that means, is there a Ministry of Truth who decides that? This reality too is just an illusion except for materialists who think that they got the gist of what is true or not when in fact they're like ostriches with their heads buried in the sand. The most educated people can be the most dogmatic ones with their thoughts and beliefs. Intelligent people can be "dumb" and naive too.
    Last edited by Wind, 25th November 2021 at 12:08.

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    This is funny, but really just tells me that people don't know jack shit and it can be super depressing to think about. The worst thing about the truth and conspiracy facts is that there are also lies and bullshit theories mixed together with all of it so that people would be confused. Also the other reason is to make them look people crazy in the eyes of the public. Critical thinking is a skill and everyone ain't got that. Qanon for example is on a whole new level of nuttery and Flat Earthers make the likes of Alex Jones look like a genius.

    "Grounded in reality". Who defines what that means, is there a Ministry of Truth who decides that? This reality too is just an illusion except for materialists who think that they got the gist of what is true or not when in fac they're like ostriches with their heads buried in the sand. The most educated people can be the most dogmatic ones with their thoughts and beliefs. Intelligent people can be "dumb" and naive too.
    Hear, hear!

    You're very wise, my friend, and I wholeheartedly agree.

    This is the big issue we face in general. A lot of hidden truth (often hidden on purpose, by the powers that be) mixed in with misinformation and plain crazy talk. The intellectual trick those in the mainstream employ to silence those that are outside of it, works like a charm. Just label everything outside the mainstream as mental illness or conspiracy theory and there you go, you never have to deal with it again. It's the intellectual equivalent of burying your head in the sand, hoping that extranormal phenomena will just go away, because it all must be fantasy or mental illness.

    I can't even tell you how many times I was told I was crazy by people who have never met me and read maybe one post or comment I made. Based on a single remark, they extrapolate to you being mentally ill, even though, if you've met me in real life or saw my videos, few people are as calm, sane or generally grounded as I am. They do this to everyone and now en masse, with the power of social media. It is a way for the crabs to pull those that would want to escape the matrix into "reality", which in itself is actually an illusion, but they'll never come to realise that.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    I thought it would be useful to have a separate thread on taking a critical look at conspiracies, not just theories, but real, actual ones and to try and determine, collectively, which of them may have merit and which ones are just crazy talk.

    To start us off, It's worth studying the below chart, which is quite useful I think. I don't fully agree with this classification, but it's pretty entertaining and informative anyways.

    One thing I would note, that some of the CTs that were placed in the top "batshit crazy" category are actually demonstrably true, although the chart does not elaborate on what they mean under certain terms.

    For instance, secret Satanic Rituals are a real thing, I know people who do them personally, although of course it is a matter of whether you imagine that the "elites" are involved in this thing on a mass scale and whether human sacrifice is involved. Certainly, Jimmy Savile's case should make you think twice.

    Another one is "Hollywood is turning your kids gay" and the "Trans Agenda", whilst obviously there is some amount of moral panic and exaggeration involved, there is no question that there is a concerted, super not secret effort to normalise (and legalise) LGBTQ lifestyles worldwide, of which Hollywood is very much an integral part. It isn't a conspiracy theory when it is an openly admitted aim of the political left and many corporations.

    There are other examples, but this should suffice for now.
    Self-acceptance is a worthy goal. Isn't that the same goal that philosophy teaches as Self-Actualization, which is the pinnacle of moral and spiritual development?

    Ted Cruz is the Zodiac Killer is hilarious, I do know a guy that firmly believed that his father was.
    Last edited by Wind, 25th November 2021 at 11:57.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    I can't even tell you how many times I was told I was crazy by people who have never met me and read maybe one post or comment I made. Based on a single remark, they extrapolate to you being mentally ill, even though, if you've met me in real life or saw my videos, few people are as calm, sane or generally grounded as I am. They do this to everyone and now en masse, with the power of social media. It is a way for the crabs to pull those that would want to escape the matrix into "reality", which in itself is actually an illusion, but they'll never come to realise that.
    That's why I almost never talk about these things in real life, because it just ain't worth it unless there is like-minded company and most often or never there is. In reality I am cool, collected, extremely rational and only if people knew what I know or believe in then some of them obviously would think that I am mentally ill, weird, hippy or something like that. The thing is, I couldn't give two shits about that. Believe it or not, I have been quite skeptical myself too and I never actually take things at face value, I need to test and understand things myself before accepting them. The thing is that I've seen, experienced and realized things that are absolutely "nuts" to some and yet they're so very real on a fundamental level. There's no going back after that ever again and I have no need to prove things to anyone.

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    That's why I almost never talk about these things in real life, because it just ain't worth it unless there is like-minded company and most often or never there is. In reality I am cool, collected, extremely rational and only if people knew what I know or believe in then some of them obviously would think that I am mentally ill, weird, hippy or something like that. The thing is, I couldn't give two shits about that. Believe it or not, I have been quite skeptical myself too and I never actually take things at face value, I need to test and understand things myself before accepting them. The thing is that I've seen, experienced and realized things that are absolutely "nuts" to some and yet they're so very real on a fundamental level. There's no going back after that ever again and I have no need to prove things to anyone.
    Yip, that's exactly how I feel about it.

    I actually sort of layer what I will talk about depending on the person. It takes quite a lot of mental gymnastics to work out how far I can go with each individual person and how much they're ready to accept without calling the men in white coats on me.

    Regarding my spiritual experiences, in my offline life, practically nobody knows about it. I started a youtube channel with my real (anglicised) name and I have also written a couple of articles for an online magazine here in Hungary, so eventually somebody might find out, but I don't mind. I'm certainly long past caring about what other people think, it's more an issue of me not wanting to shatter their fragile egos and world-views. Most people simply aren't equipped to handle the truth of what is actually out there.

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    I started exploring conspiracy theory back in 2012. Even the year was caught up in conspiracy. I had kids tell me about the illuminati growing up. I would wonder why. Did they think I'd believe them? Did they think I was naive? Did they believe?

    Kids love to tell tall tales. I recall many of the silly stories and assumed the illuminati thing was just one of them.

    Seeing adults glom onto these things was a different experience. I tend to think that if a bunch of people are talking about something, there may be a grain of truth. If not, then it's good to know the underlying dynamic.

    For example, the doctor widely responsible for spreading the MMR/autism fear was developing his own vaccine and was trying to undermine the competition.

    The autism lie never died.

    So CT can be problematic, even dangerous.

    I decided I should look into things myself before being drawn into something by a 'true believer'.

    I checked out everything from Nibiru and 2012 end times, to aliens, to flat earth, and on and on.

    The sad thing I discovered was that there is a common through line in most CT. Dig deeply and you find the 'jews' who are controlling/destroying everything. You find the holocaust denial and white supremacy.

    I'm not sure how that became so embedded in CT. Perhaps it's just a useful vehicle to draw people in and get them on board before they realize the underlying anti-jew, white supremacist dynamic.

    It was a depressing revelation for me.

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    It's hard not to get caught up when it's personal.

    "We're the true royal line!" "We're the real indigenous people!"

    It's much more exciting than 'love your neighbor' or civic duties.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I started exploring conspiracy theory back in 2012. Even the year was caught up in conspiracy. I had kids tell me about the illuminati growing up. I would wonder why. Did they think I'd believe them? Did they think I was naive? Did they believe?

    Kids love to tell tall tales. I recall many of the silly stories and assumed the illuminati thing was just one of them.

    Seeing adults glom onto these things was a different experience. I tend to think that if a bunch of people are talking about something, there may be a grain of truth. If not, then it's good to know the underlying dynamic.

    For example, the doctor widely responsible for spreading the MMR/autism fear was developing his own vaccine and was trying to undermine the competition.

    The autism lie never died.

    So CT can be problematic, even dangerous.

    I decided I should look into things myself before being drawn into something by a 'true believer'.

    I checked out everything from Nibiru and 2012 end times, to aliens, to flat earth, and on and on.

    The sad thing I discovered was that there is a common through line in most CT. Dig deeply and you find the 'jews' who are controlling/destroying everything. You find the holocaust denial and white supremacy.

    I'm not sure how that became so embedded in CT. Perhaps it's just a useful vehicle to draw people in and get them on board before they realize the underlying anti-jew, white supremacist dynamic.

    It was a depressing revelation for me.
    yeah, true that ... that also is an intrinsic part of the cosmos it would seem since it is so prevalent. In reality perhaps it is a perversion of that Universal love thingy ... distorted by anthropomorphic dysfunction. Is that evil? Here's another perspective. Cause and effect. In this case the effect is the perversion but what is the cause ... A belief I've long held is that the cause is parenting but then we know that parenting isn't the begin all, end all, no we are all independent creatures capable of forming our own opinions and acting on them. We can choose a positive motivation for good or we can choose to condemn ourselves to hell. Free will is a concept that runs the gamut with opinions, again cause and effect, which is a dominating principle in the material world, the question is do we have free will granted by that 'above and outside' of the cosmos or does the hopelessly anthropomorphic dictates of our genes take it away.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I started exploring conspiracy theory back in 2012. Even the year was caught up in conspiracy. I had kids tell me about the illuminati growing up. I would wonder why. Did they think I'd believe them? Did they think I was naive? Did they believe?

    Kids love to tell tall tales. I recall many of the silly stories and assumed the illuminati thing was just one of them.

    Seeing adults glom onto these things was a different experience. I tend to think that if a bunch of people are talking about something, there may be a grain of truth. If not, then it's good to know the underlying dynamic.

    For example, the doctor widely responsible for spreading the MMR/autism fear was developing his own vaccine and was trying to undermine the competition.

    The autism lie never died.

    So CT can be problematic, even dangerous.

    I decided I should look into things myself before being drawn into something by a 'true believer'.

    I checked out everything from Nibiru and 2012 end times, to aliens, to flat earth, and on and on.

    The sad thing I discovered was that there is a common through line in most CT. Dig deeply and you find the 'jews' who are controlling/destroying everything. You find the holocaust denial and white supremacy.

    I'm not sure how that became so embedded in CT. Perhaps it's just a useful vehicle to draw people in and get them on board before they realize the underlying anti-jew, white supremacist dynamic.

    It was a depressing revelation for me.
    The comical thing about the big day in 2012 was that I was moving my furniture from an upstairs apartment and accidentally dropped an exercycle down the stairs. My downstairs neighbor screamed and nearly jumped through her window. I laughed for days, even if it was a really really inside joke and a very bad one for her apparently.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I started exploring conspiracy theory back in 2012. Even the year was caught up in conspiracy. I had kids tell me about the illuminati growing up. I would wonder why. Did they think I'd believe them? Did they think I was naive? Did they believe?

    Kids love to tell tall tales. I recall many of the silly stories and assumed the illuminati thing was just one of them.

    Seeing adults glom onto these things was a different experience. I tend to think that if a bunch of people are talking about something, there may be a grain of truth. If not, then it's good to know the underlying dynamic.

    For example, the doctor widely responsible for spreading the MMR/autism fear was developing his own vaccine and was trying to undermine the competition.

    The autism lie never died.

    So CT can be problematic, even dangerous.

    I decided I should look into things myself before being drawn into something by a 'true believer'.

    I checked out everything from Nibiru and 2012 end times, to aliens, to flat earth, and on and on.

    The sad thing I discovered was that there is a common through line in most CT. Dig deeply and you find the 'jews' who are controlling/destroying everything. You find the holocaust denial and white supremacy.

    I'm not sure how that became so embedded in CT. Perhaps it's just a useful vehicle to draw people in and get them on board before they realize the underlying anti-jew, white supremacist dynamic.

    It was a depressing revelation for me.
    Conspiracy theories have centred around the Jews since at least the middle ages. Nothing's new under the sun.

    When reading about my own city's history (Sopron), I found out that Jews were expelled twice during the middle ages. Then, after the Holocaust, none were left. I met one Jewish person, in a local museum since the whole time I've lived here (my family moved here in 1995).

    Even when Jews were allowed to live here in peace, they were often mistrusted. Malicious rumours about them, like the notorious blood libel, abounded and were believed by many.

    I occasionally read the writings of Henry Makow, a canadian Jew, whose parents were Holocaust survivors. Despite this, he is a rabid anti-semite himself and swallows the whole anti-semitic conspiracy theory in whole. He reckons the protocols are a real document and that the Jewish elite are actually Satanists (Sabattean-Frankists as he calls them) and they engage in ritual sacrifice and are plotting to control the world and kill off or at least enslave the goyim. He used to be a respected University Professor by the way and he has written several well-regarded books before his rather worrying turn.

    Even a person like him a Canadian Jewish university professor, whose family suffered during the Holocaust can be susceptible to such anti-semitic conspiracy theories. Remember the Oprah episode where a Jewish girl came on and claimed that prominent Jews are actually satanists and will sacrifice their own secret babies at night? It caused a stir, but people don't forget such claims and they stick in the collective consciousness even when they're debunked. I'd bet anti-semitism is the driving force behind the Qanon phenomenon as well.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Remember the Oprah episode where a Jewish girl came on and claimed that prominent Jews are actually satanists and will sacrifice their own secret babies at night? It caused a stir, but people don't forget such claims and they stick in the collective consciousness even when they're debunked. I'd bet anti-semitism is the driving force behind the Qanon phenomenon as well.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ki8gMNPcqk

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