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Thread: How Science Explains Spirituality | Rupert Sheldrake

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    How Science Explains Spirituality | Rupert Sheldrake


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSy-GDfHhzg


    Is science necessarily at odds with the spiritual? Rupert Sheldrake combines scientific research and his knowledge of mystical traditions to argue that we can experience higher states of consciousness and a realm where we might finally find life's meaning.

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    Longer lecture here, length is about one hour 22 mins.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqWbIVlnmNM


    The sciences are pointing toward a new sense of a living world. The cosmos is like a developing organism, and so is our planet, Gaia. The laws of Nature may be more like habits. Partly as a result of the ‘hard problem’ of finding space for human consciousness in the materialist worldview, there is a renewed interest in panpsychist philosophies, according to which some form of mind, experience or consciousness is associated with all self-organizing systems, including atoms, molecules and plants. Maybe the sun is conscious, and so are other stars, and entire galaxies. If so, what about the mind of the universe as a whole? Rupert Sheldrake will explore some of the implications of this idea.

    Rupert Sheldrake is a biologist and author of more than 85 scientific papers, and was named among the top 100 Global Thought Leaders for 2013. He studied natural sciences at Cambridge University, where he was a Scholar of Clare College, took a double first class honours degree and was awarded the University Botany Prize in 1963. Dr Sheldrake then studied philosophy and the history of science at Harvard before returning to Cambridge, where he took a Ph.D. in biochemistry in 1967.

    He is the author of 13 books, and in 2012 he published ‘The Science Delusion’. This book examines the ten dogmas of modern science, and shows how they can be turned into questions that open up new vistas of scientific possibility. It received the Book of the Year Award from the British Scientific and Medical Network. His most recent book: ‘Ways To Go Beyond, And Why They Work’ was published in 2019, and looks at seven spiritual practices that are personally transformative and have scientifically measurable effects. You can keep up to date with Rupert’s work on his website: www.sheldrake.org.

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    Love Sheldrake.

    I've read a couple of his books, tough to read, but really thought-provoking.

    He was a respected Oxford Don, before he started doing research into the Morphic Field and Morphic Resonance (his terms), The Sense of Being Stared at, Premonition, Intuition, Telepathy, Psychedelics and other "forbidden" areas of research. Unfortunately, this has also killed his academic career, kind of shows you how the scientific establishment really works.

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    Science, religion, academics, they all seem to have that quality of ousting or as we like to say cancelling someone who is outside the box. Getting blackballed for stepping out of bounds is and old practice.

    Fortunately, when the work is good it endures and we can still benefit.

    I haven't tried to read his books but the latest one sounds like it's worth seeking out and reading.

    I do like listening to Rupert.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Love Sheldrake.

    I've read a couple of his books, tough to read, but really thought-provoking.

    He was a respected Oxford Don, before he started doing research into the Morphic Field and Morphic Resonance (his terms), The Sense of Being Stared at, Premonition, Intuition, Telepathy, Psychedelics and other "forbidden" areas of research. Unfortunately, this has also killed his academic career, kind of shows you how the scientific establishment really works.
    I have listened to two of his audiobooks which he narrates himself, the ones about the spiritual practices and why they work. I would recommend them. Interesting stuff even though not really anything new. I'm about to delve into the Science Delusion book soon too, he named the book like that to poke at Richard Dawkins who wrote the book called "God Delusion". In that book of his Shedrake indeed explains how modern scientific and academic world functions, with it's rigid and dogmatic materialistic worldview. I think the whole point for science is to find out the objective truth about the nature of reality, but if science too becomes just a dogmatic religion - scientism, then that's a problem. A true scientist is supposed to think outside the box too, challenging the status quo shouldn't be something bad. People like him won't really fit in and are thrown out as heretics. He used to be friends with Terence McKenna and Jiddu Krishnamurti.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZGShv8-x0o
    Last edited by Wind, 18th November 2021 at 01:03.

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    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    Another book written in 2002 ... Deepak Chopra does the foreward.

    Wind has been hitting this topic lately. Anyway,
    This guy has impressive scientific credentials:

    Ph.D from Harvard, Tenured professor at Yale. And groundbreaking researcher at the University of Arizona.

    "The Afterlife Experiments" 'Breakthrough scientific evidence of life after death'
    Gary E. Schwartz. Ph.D.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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    Quote Originally posted by BeastOfBologna View Post
    "The Afterlife Experiments" 'Breakthrough scientific evidence of life after death'
    Gary E. Schwartz. Ph.D.
    My beloved sister Kelly gave me all the scientific evidence I need.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    My beloved sister Kelly gave me all the scientific evidence I need.
    There you go, another compelling example. Amen.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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    His TedX banned vid, really got him more noticed and viewed and learned from by many more sciency and spiritsy folks, bless them.

    Will see if i can find it, imo was actualllly a very detailed interconnection wise, noosepheric starting template, though not said at the time.

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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    His TedX banned vid, really got him more noticed and viewed and learned from by many more sciency and spiritsy folks, bless them.

    Will see if i can find it, imo was actualllly a very detailed interconnection wise, noosepheric starting template, though not said at the time.
    Scratch that, his books are actually easier to decipher than Aianawese...


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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    I have listened to two of his audiobooks which he narrates himself, the ones about the spiritual practices and why they work. I would recommend them. Interesting stuff even though not really anything new. I'm about to delve into the Science Delusion book soon too, he named the book like that to poke at Richard Dawkins who wrote the book called "God Delusion". In that book of his Shedrake indeed explains how modern scientific and academic world functions, with it's rigid and dogmatic materialistic worldview. I think the whole point for science is to find out the objective truth about the nature of reality, but if science too becomes just a dogmatic religion - scientism, then that's a problem. A true scientist is supposed to think outside the box too, challenging the status quo shouldn't be something bad. People like him won't really fit in and are thrown out as heretics. He used to be friends with Terence McKenna and Jiddu Krishnamurti.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZGShv8-x0o
    I've read the science delusion years ago. Not his best book, but thought-provoking nevertheless. You really need to be into the minutiae of how science works to appreciate it. Apparently, a lot of the supposedly unshakable assumptions about the universe are not as "constant" as people think and are somewhat malleable, with a prime example of his being the speed of light, which has actually changed since the first time it was measured and thus defined. In fact some of the supposed universal constants change so much, that they just stopped measuring them and now just use a centrally defined median figure that everyone must adhere to, because it apparently really upsets scientists when they find out that constants aren't as constant as they were brought up to believe...

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    I have listened to two of his audiobooks which he narrates himself, the ones about the spiritual practices and why they work. I would recommend them. Interesting stuff even though not really anything new. I'm about to delve into the Science Delusion book soon too, he named the book like that to poke at Richard Dawkins who wrote the book called "God Delusion". In that book of his Shedrake indeed explains how modern scientific and academic world functions, with it's rigid and dogmatic materialistic worldview. I think the whole point for science is to find out the objective truth about the nature of reality, but if science too becomes just a dogmatic religion - scientism, then that's a problem. A true scientist is supposed to think outside the box too, challenging the status quo shouldn't be something bad. People like him won't really fit in and are thrown out as heretics. He used to be friends with Terence McKenna and Jiddu Krishnamurti.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZGShv8-x0o
    Just for kicks ... When my daughter was in grade school, I was going to coach her through one of his (Sheldrake) experiments for the science fair, but the motivation got nixed by her mother and stepdad (meaning her mother). They did an experiment on the penetration level of bullet projectiles. They had to hide her face on the video. Very nice and illuminating experiment for a highly sensitive youngster.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    I've read the science delusion years ago. Not his best book, but thought-provoking nevertheless. You really need to be into the minutiae of how science works to appreciate it. Apparently, a lot of the supposedly unshakable assumptions about the universe are not as "constant" as people think and are somewhat malleable, with a prime example of his being the speed of light, which has actually changed since the first time it was measured and thus defined. In fact some of the supposed universal constants change so much, that they just stopped measuring them and now just use a centrally defined median figure that everyone must adhere to, because it apparently really upsets scientists when they find out that constants aren't as constant as they were brought up to believe...
    Some sceptic claiming that the Bible was inconsistent and contradictory used the Biblical explanation of the age of the Universe as a prime example citing how calculations have changed. They failed to notice that 'changes' are inherently built into the explanation and throughout Biblical history the explanation still works. The sceptic failed to interpret the passages correctly. The fundamental aspect of time, cosmic age, and distance remained untouched by any adjustments made by science.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    His TedX banned vid, really got him more noticed and viewed and learned from by many more sciency and spiritsy folks, bless them.

    Will see if i can find it, imo was actualllly a very detailed interconnection wise, noosepheric starting template, though not said at the time.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg


    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Apparently, a lot of the supposedly unshakable assumptions about the universe are not as "constant" as people think and are somewhat malleable, with a prime example of his being the speed of light, which has actually changed since the first time it was measured and thus defined. In fact some of the supposed universal constants change so much, that they just stopped measuring them and now just use a centrally defined median figure that everyone must adhere to, because it apparently really upsets scientists when they find out that constants aren't as constant as they were brought up to believe...

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjH9TnX9F64


    Quote Originally posted by BeastOfBologna View Post
    Some sceptic claiming that the Bible was inconsistent and contradictory used the Biblical explanation of the age of the Universe as a prime example citing how calculations have changed. They failed to notice that 'changes' are inherently built into the explanation and throughout Biblical history the explanation still works. The sceptic failed to interpret the passages correctly. The fundamental aspect of time, cosmic age, and distance remained untouched by any adjustments made by science.
    Quite interestingly the calculations according to Hinduism are similar what science these days understands it to be.

    Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita:

    By human calculation, a thousand ages taken together form the duration of Brahma's one day (4,32 billion years). And such also is the duration of his night. (Bg. 8.17)

    At the beginning of Brahma's day, all living entities become manifest from the unmanifest state, and thereafter, when the night falls, they are merged into the unmanifest again. (Bg. 8.18)

    Again and again, when Brahma's day arrives, all living entities come into being, and with the arrival of Brahma's night they are helplessly annihilated. (Bg. 8.19)

    Yet there is another unmanifest nature, which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is. (Bg. 8.20)

    That which the Vedantists describe as unmanifest and infallible, that which is known as the supreme destination, that place from which, having attained it, one never returns—that is My supreme abode. (Bg. 8.21)
    Age of Universe according to Vedas

    I wrote this article long back so putting it here without much modifications. It talks about the current age (and total age) of universe as described by Vedas (sacred books of Hinduism). According to modern science, there are two theories:

    a. The Steady State theory, which says the universe is never born, never dies, and is always like what it is.
    b. The Big bang theory, which says the universe began with a point of energy exploding in a "big-bang".

    Since the universe is expanding and evolving, 1st theory is not 100% correct automatically. Big Bang theory says that the current age of universe is 11-20 billion years. But according to new observations, i.e. clusters of galaxies, super-clusters, Great Wall (Tully's complexes), it is quite evident that our universe is much much older than that. Lots of cosmologist believe that big-bang theory is not correct although it is most widely accepted. In short, modern man is not aware of forces and science which are needed to expain the creation of universe.

    Lets look at vedic science and what it says. Right now I am quoting only what it says:
    a. Total age of universe is 311.04 trillion years (human years).
    b. Current age is around 155.521972944 trillion years.

    How it is calculated:
    -> There are 4 ages on earth which keeps circulating:
    Satya Yuga - 1.728 million years
    Treta Yuga - 1.296 million years
    Dwapara Yuga - 0.864 million years
    Kali Yuga - 0.432 million years

    Total: 4.32 million human years.

    -> This yuga cycle is called maha (in english, it means great/big) or divya (divine) yuga. One thousand such cycles forms one day of Brahma (a demigod in hindu religion which governs the universe). So one day of Brahma is 4.32 million * 1000 = 4.32 billion human years. Each such day of Brahma is called a "kalpa". His night also constitutes 4.32 billion human years. During his day, life exists in universe. In nighttime, no form of life exists. So one complete day and night has 8.64 billion human years.

    -> Age of Brahma is 100 years. Each year of Brahma has 360 days and same number of nights. Thus, total age of Brahma is 360 * 100 * 8.64 billion = 311,040 billion human years. i.e. 311.04 trillion years. This period is called "maha kalpa".

    -> The life span of the universe is one "maha kalpa". i.e. 311.04 trillion human years. This time span is also the duration of one breath of "Vishnu" (the ultimate god in hindu religion). When he exhales, thousands of universes emerges and one "Brahma" is born in each universe. When "Vishnu" inhales, all universes get sucked and Brahma dies.

    -> This cycle is non-ending and eternal. Thats why "Vishnu" is considered eternal in Vedic Science (or religion).
    How much old is our universe:

    -> Note that the period of Satya Yuga is 0.4x, Treta Yuga is 0.3x, Dwapara Yuga is 0.2x and Kali Yuga is 0.1x where x is the time-span of one maha-yuga cycle. I will use 'x' as 1 maha-yuga cycle subsequently.

    -> In 1 day of Brahma, there are 14 "manvantara". Each "manvantara" is divided into 71 "maha-yuga" cycles. So total make 14*71 = 994x (mahayuga cycles).

    -> Remaining cycles (1 day of Brahma contains 1000 maha-yuga cycles) are used to fill gaps between manvantara. Before and after each manvantara (called as "sandhya" and "sandhyamsa" respectively), there is a junction of 1.728 million (age of Satya Yuga, or 0.4x) human years. Total number of junctions are 15 (since there are 14 manvantaras). So total gap period is = 0.4 * 15 = 6x. Hence total makes 1000 maha-yuga cycles or 1 brahma day.

    -> According to the Vedic texts, current age of Brahma is 50 Brahma years and 1 brahma day (we are in the 1st day of 2nd half of brahma)and we are in the seventh "manvantara", in the 28th turnover of its 71 yuga cycles. In this cycle, we are in the start Kali Yuga. Age of kali yuga is not known perfectly but it is around 5000-10000 years. For calculation, lets assume 8000 human years.

    -> So current age of our universe (in terms of maha-yuga cycles) =
    (50 * 720 * 1000) -- 50 years * (360 days + 360 nights) * total no. of cycles in one day/night
    + (6 * 71) -- 6 manvantara each of 71 maha-yuga cycle
    + (7 * 0.4) -- 7 junctions or gaps for 6 manvantara
    + (27 * 1) -- we are in 28th cycle of 71
    + (0.4+0.3+0.2) -- In this cycle, we are in Kali Yuga. Satya Yuga, Treat Yuga and Dwapara yuga are 0.4x, 0.3x and 0.2x respectively.
    + around 8000 human years -- very small, so ignoring it.

    Thus total age = (36,000,000 + 456.7)x = 36,000,456.7 * 4.32 million = 155,521,972.944 million years = 155.521972944 trillion human years. Now add the age of Kali yuga. i.e. around 8000 human years. One we calculate the exact age of Kali yuga (the current age), we can know the exact age of universe.

    How ancient Indians (or Vedic people, more precisely) come up with these numbers, I dont have a clue.

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    [...] with a prime example of his being the speed of light, which has actually changed since the first time it was measured [...]
    No, it hasn't. What changed was the definition of the meter as a unit of length. Initially, the meter was the length of a metal rod, but because of natural wear, the rod became shorter. So they devised a new way of determining the exact length of a meter by using the speed of light in a vacuum as a constant.

    The speed of light can indeed vary when passing through a medium because of refraction, but within a vacuum, the speed of light is always constant, and for every observer, in every reference frame and in every direction.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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