World War Three

[Lord Sidious]

Why do you keep saying the F-35 is inferior, I've never had the impression that it was ... A plane's capabilities are designed for 'scenarios'. It isn't all about what it does against another that might have different design objectives?

They never got the best of the F-16's capabilities either...that's counterproductive to internal security. Especially when sold to countries in 'volatile' areas.

Go read up on all the issues with it

[Aragorn]

Why do you keep saying the F-35 is inferior, I've never had the impression that it was ... A plane's capabilities are designed for 'scenarios'. It isn't all about what it does against another that might have different design objectives?

They never got the best of the F-16's capabilities either...that's counterproductive to internal security. Especially when sold to countries in 'volatile' areas.

The F-22 ran rings around the F-35 during the latter's development. That's why Uncle Sam didn't want to share the goodies with his NATO partners.

[Emil El Zapato]

The F-22 ran rings around the F-35 during the latter's development. That's why Uncle Sam didn't want to share the goodies with his NATO partners.

Perhaps, but I won't swallow just anything... . Colin Powell felt betrayed by the intelligence services. Accident or by design but Powell was 'very' instrumental in going to war. That has happened throughout American history, as stated before 'power brokers' make mistakes especially in the interest of doing something to preserve their own interests and those of people that are dependent upon them. It's not an easy tightrope to walk.

Go read up on all the issues with it

Now that is a thought I'm familiar with and I have never done it while looking for flaws.

[Chris]

The F-22 ran rings around the F-35 during the latter's development. That's why Uncle Sam didn't want to share the goodies with his NATO partners.

Those two fighters have very different use cases. The F22 is an air superiority fighter and very good at that, it was peerless for decades with some Russian and Chinese jets now supposedly matching it.

The F 35 is a Multirole fighter and most of its issues stem from the fact that it was meant to replace too many different types of aircraft and it wasn't very good at any of its intended roles.

However, I wouldn't write it off just yet as the VTOL version should replace the Harrier, which was the unsung "hero" of every war the US has fought since 1991, especially in service of the Marine Corps as a ground attack aircraft. It also proved to be rather good against French Rafales in the Falkland wars.

The F 35 is far superior to the 1960s era Harrier and it is in this role that it really shines. No other nation makes a comparable VTOL aircraft and it should give the US marine corps and US allies (Britain, Spain, Italy, Thailand, South Korea, Japan, etc...) significant power projection capabilities as they procure F35s to replace their trusty harriers on small aircraft carriers, which are usually labelled Amphibious Assault Ships, Helicopter Carriers or even Helicopter Destroyers. Most major US allies have a couple of these ships and will therefore be able to assist the US in its overseas operations. Australia for instance is already part of the US command structure and Britain is well integrated as well.

[Emil El Zapato]

Those two fighters have very different use cases. The F22 is an air superiority fighter and very good at that, it was peerless for decades with some Russian and Chinese jets now supposedly matching it.

The F 35 is a Multirole fighter and most of its issues stem from the fact that it was meant to replace too many different types of aircraft and it wasn't very good at any of its intended roles.

However, I wouldn't write it off just yet as the VTOL version should replace the Harrier, which was the unsung "hero" of every war the US has fought since 1991, especially in service of the Marine Corps as a ground attack aircraft. It also proved to be rather good against French Rafales in the Falkland wars.

The F 35 is far superior to the 1960s era Harrier and it is in this role that it really shines. No other nation makes a comparable VTOL aircraft and it should give the US marine corps and US allies (Britain, Spain, Italy, Thailand, South Korea, Japan, etc...) significant power projection capabilities as they procure F35s to replace their trusty harriers on small aircraft carriers, which are usually labelled Amphibious Assault Ships, Helicopter Carriers or even Helicopter Destroyers. Most major US allies have a couple of these ships and will therefore be able to assist the US in its overseas operations. Australia for instance is already part of the US command structure and Britain is well integrated as well.

That is the way I remember as the design objective of the F-35 ... the next generation F-16 but it did have many problems getting to production. Of course, that was after I was gone. Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk!

[Wind]

Here in Finland we have had 57 McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornets since the mid 90's and our government just decided that we will be buying 65 F-35's, because "they were the best choice", but the deal costs a fortune. Estimation is that it will cost over 10 billion euros. We are transitioning to using them before 2030, the first planes will arrive here in 2025-2026 and at first they will train 18 pilots to fly them.

Some people heavily criticized that deal because they thought that money could be used more reasonably. Then again, some people here are still afraid of Russia, want to join NATO and want to keep our military in good condition. I don't think that Russia poses a threat to us, all of this is just a show between those big superpowers meaning USA, China and Russia. USA has had a nearly complete domination over the world during the past 30 years, but now China has been catching up and Russia wants to have it's slice of the pie too once again.

[Aragorn]

Here in Finland we have had 57 McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornets since the mid 90's and our government just decided that we will be buying 65 F-35's, because "they were the best choice", but the deal costs a fortune.

Belgium has ordered 34 of them. There was an initial interest in acquiring the Eurofighter Typhoon, with the other contenders being the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet, the SAAB Gripen, the Dassault Rafale and the Lockheed-Martin F-35. Dassault was pushing really hard by making lots of concessions, but the Belgian government decided on the F-35, initially claiming that it was the financially best offer, and later claiming that "it offered the best performance in all required criteria".

However, the only criterion that really did make a difference was its capability for delivering nuclear payloads, and the only nuclear bombs we have here belong to the US Air Force, not to the Belgian military. They are bombs ─ not missiles ─ and they are kept at a USAF base that is itself an enclave within the Belgian Air Component^(*) base of Kleine-Brogel, near Brussels.

So it's obvious how obsequious the Belgian government is to the USA, and this was especially ostensible when the Christian-democrat career politician Pieter De Crem was the Federal Minister of Defense; it was under his watch that Belgium sent troops ─ including from the secret Special Forces unit ─ and fighter planes into both Afghanistan and Iraq.

For a country of roughly only about 30'000 km² that has been torn by linguistic and cultural differences ever since its inception, Belgium has always had a staggering delusion of grandeur and self-importance on the international stage, although personally I think this would rather be a Freudian consequence of exactly the fact that Belgium is so small that you can hardly find it on the world map.

	(*) Yes, we no longer have an Army, an Air Force or a Navy, but we now have a Land Component, an Air Component and a Sea Component.

[Chris]

On a side note, anything with a Chinese chip in it is going to be worse than useless in a real world war. This has been a major concern for modern weapons systems and has led to major delays and cost overruns, including with the F-35. The problem is, all commercially available chips are made in a couple of foundries in China (or Taiwan) and it has been proven that the Red Army (the Chinese one) has surreptitiously placed backdoors into them. This is how they were able to commandeer US military drones over Iranian airspace a few years ago for instance. This is another area where China could just send the West back into the stone age, or the 1980s, which in computer terms is pretty much the same thing...

[Dreamtimer]

For me, the loss of the F-35 is more important as to the topic of this thread, as opposed to it's capabilities or the retrieval storyline. Once again we have a carrier group prancing around in the South China Sea, same as they just love to do in other places like the Black Sea. The U.S. refers to it as policing the world's oceans to ensure freedom of navigation, the countries they continuously encroach upon would call it needless provocation.

After all, how would the U.S. react to regular such incursions into the Gulf of Mexico by say, Russia or China? Would the U.S. buy that kind of a reason, or would they be screaming foul?

I don't see that as any different to NATO's (U.S.) constant inching closer and closer to Russia, which of course breaks a promise that this would never happen.

I wonder how the U.S. might react to Russia or China creating military alliances with Mexico's northern states?

I wonder about that kind of thing often. We're going to end up getting bitten in the ass.

On a side note, anything with a Chinese chip in it is going to be worse than useless in a real world war. This has been a major concern for modern weapons systems and has led to major delays and cost overruns, including with the F-35. The problem is, all commercially available chips are made in a couple of foundries in China (or Taiwan) and it has been proven that the Red Army (the Chinese one) has surreptitiously placed backdoors into them. This is how they were able to commandeer US military drones over Iranian airspace a few years ago for instance. This is another area where China could just send the West back into the stone age, or the 1980s, which in computer terms is pretty much the same thing...

So many fun things to look forward to.

[Octopus Garden]

War on the Rocks


"Either way, Washington should be worried. If the United States were to be deprived of access to these foundries, the U.S. defense and consumer electronics industries would be set back for at least five years. Moreover, because China is investing in its own chip foundries, it could become the world leader in technology for the next decade or more. That’s why it was encouraging to see Republicans and Democrats in the House and Senate propose $25 billion to help America’s semiconductor industry. But this should only be the start."

https://warontherocks.com/2020/06/th...-21st-century/

[Octopus Garden]

For me, the loss of the F-35 is more important as to the topic of this thread, as opposed to it's capabilities or the retrieval storyline. Once again we have a carrier group prancing around in the South China Sea, same as they just love to do in other places like the Black Sea. The U.S. refers to it as policing the world's oceans to ensure freedom of navigation, the countries they continuously encroach upon would call it needless provocation.

After all, how would the U.S. react to regular such incursions into the Gulf of Mexico by say, Russia or China? Would the U.S. buy that kind of a reason, or would they be screaming foul?

I don't see that as any different to NATO's (U.S.) constant inching closer and closer to Russia, which of course breaks a promise that this would never happen.

I wonder how the U.S. might react to Russia or China creating military alliances with Mexico's northern states?

Well, we all know how the U.S treats Middle Eastern countries who hide American oil under their soil, right? So not pretty!

[Dreamtimer]

What was that about getting neighbors to rat each other out? What was that about vigilante justice? Where was that happening before....?

"Once people start suing teachers, nobody's safe."

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty5cpRWAkkU

[Chris]

The false-flag planters-in-chief are accusing Russia of planning a false flag operation to justify the invasion of Ukraine.

read://https_www.independent.co.uk/?...-b2007205.html

On the other hand, US is no longer calling the Russian invasion of Ukraine "imminent", so what gives.

If you ask me, we are down to playground level politics at this point.

If there was to be an invasion, after the Beijing Olympics (again ?!?) would be the best time for it.

The Hungarian mini-Putin has concluded his visit to Moscow, where he was rewarded with a further 1 billion cm of cheap Russian gas annually. Putin used the opportunity to grandstand as a friend of the EU and NATO (since Hungary is a member of both), that is being unfairly maligned and baselessly accused of aggression. In a few weeks, we will know what's what.

[Lord Sidious]

In a few weeks, we will know what's what.

That we can agree on, Ungarnugget.............

[Wind]

If you ask me, we are down to playground level politics at this point.

If there was to be an invasion, after the Beijing Olympics (again ?!?) would be the best time for it.

Did you happen to catch what Steve Judd said about the possible timing of the attack, Aragorn?