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Thread: World War Three

  1. #1351
    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Hmm, Roman politics isn't my ideal.
    Besides a 2 power system (if that's what's happening. (Brics /us dollar) is also not very inclusive.
    If we can get some political system that would be preferable by me. I'd go for the anarchism that prevailed in Paris after the french revolution.
    Some form of social anarchist syndicalism.

    Ah well.
    Have a great day today

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    Quote Originally posted by Catsquotl View Post
    Hmm, Roman politics isn't my ideal.
    Besides a 2 power system (if that's what's happening. (Brics /us dollar) is also not very inclusive.
    If we can get some political system that would be preferable by me. I'd go for the anarchism that prevailed in Paris after the french revolution.
    Some form of social anarchist syndicalism.

    Ah well.
    Well, between you and I, I tend to live my life as an anarchist but as Sir Anduril has pointed out in the past, 'responsible anarchy' is an ideal. The obvious failure of that social experiment is the responsible part.

    In terms of Romulus and Remus, that experiment notably ended in the usual failure. People that are spritually generous in nature don't crave power, thus in most cases never attain it. Truly, hierarchy based on power is doomed. (There is always somebody else that wants it) In short, we is totally f*cked up.

    Nature, of course, played its part. I've maintained this stance since high school...nature is greedy where it should be utilitarian.

    Example Given:
    According to the endosymbiotic theory, the first eukaryotic cells evolved from a symbiotic relationship between two or more prokaryotic cells. Smaller prokaryotic cells were engulfed by (or invaded) larger prokaryotic cells. The small cells (now called endosymbionts) benefited from the relationship by getting a safe home and nutrients. The large cells (now called hosts) benefited by getting some of the organic molecules or energy released by the endosymbionts. Eventually, the endosymbionts evolved into organelles of the host cells. After that, neither could live without the other.

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    That's why to be human we have to rise above our earthly nature.
    There's something spiritual there, but yeah. Those that want power are the least likely to be any good at it.

    That said though.. there are some examples of good leaders who practice what they preach. But not that many sadly.
    Have a great day today

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    Quote Originally posted by Catsquotl View Post
    That's why to be human we have to rise above our earthly nature.
    There's something spiritual there, but yeah. Those that want power are the least likely to be any good at it.

    That said though.. there are some examples of good leaders who practice what they preach. But not that many sadly.
    yes very true... I think Biden is at least in that mold. He gets ripped apart because he does try to satisfy both sides...which happens to most people that do that.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    In terms of Romulus and Remus, that experiment notably ended in the usual failure.
    Well, to be fair, the Romulans were treating the Remans as second-rate citizens at best, and then Shinzon had the Romulan senate assassinated, but then Picard discovered that Shinzon was really a genocidal maniac and killed him. And then a supernova destroyed both Romulus and Remus, and the evacuated survivors and colonists then created the Romulan Free State.

    But... No, wait... You're not talking about Star Trek, are you?



    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    People that are spritually generous in nature don't crave power, thus in most cases never attain it.
    True, that. Genuine spiritual awareness on the one hand and a lust for power, fame and fortune on the other hand are mutually exclusive.

    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    Truly, hierarchy based on power is doomed. (There is always somebody else that wants it) In short, we is totally f*cked up.
    Unfortunately, yes, and that is why I don't have any hope for the human species anymore.





    Quote Originally posted by Catsquotl View Post
    That's why to be human we have to rise above our earthly nature.
    There's something spiritual there, but yeah. Those that want power are the least likely to be any good at it.

    “The most improper job of any man, even saints (who at any rate were at least unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.”

    (J.R.R. Tolkien)
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Well, to be fair, the Romulans were treating the Remans as second-rate citizens at best, and then Shinzon had the Romulan senate assassinated, but then Picard discovered that Shinzon was really a genocidal maniac and killed him. And then a supernova destroyed both Romulus and Remus, and the evacuated survivors and colonists then created the Romulan Free State.

    But... No, wait... You're not talking about Star Trek, are you?





    True, that. Genuine spiritual awareness on the one hand and a lust for power, fame and fortune on the other hand are mutually exclusive.



    Unfortunately, yes, and that is why I don't have any hope for the human species anymore.








    “The most improper job of any man, even saints (who at any rate were at least unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.”

    (J.R.R. Tolkien)
    yeah, wrong planet Aragorn, life does get confusing.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    So true, but do you think the below entity would be so motivated by political machinations?

    Somewhat ironic name:

    The International Court of Justice (ICJ) is the principal judicial organ of the United Nations (UN). It was established in June 1945 by the Charter of the United Nations and began work in April 1946. The seat of the Court is at the Peace Palace in The Hague (Netherlands).
    Things likely haven't changed much since Bolton's tenure:

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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    Perhaps, or they are trying to make smaller countries more secure in the face of a madman. With ulterior motives, of course, the world is a chess game after all.

    The U.S. is not 'going after' China, they are just trying to keep the playing field level (after decades of letting China tilt it in their own favor). The U.S. didn't really give a 'flying' you know what about Russia until Putin decided he had to take over the world.
    The U.S is resisting multi-polarity, as it negates the reserve currency of their dollar. Nearly all international business is settled in American dollars, currently, so it keeps the U.S powerful, their dollar strong, no matter what kind of insane domestic monetary and fiscal policy they undertake. But it's a set up that is becoming more fragile by the day.

    This is a huge part of the equation, imo, and largely why the US is trying to return industrial and manufacturing capacity to North American shores. Unfortunately Biden didn't get this memo.

    There is a slow dawning in the US, that you can't keep sanctioning countries and expect the rest of the world to go along with you. The slow death of nations like Iraq, Iran and Venezuela under sanctions, doesn't blow up buildings but does blow up lives. Their actions have caused more death than Russia has, in the last two decades. It's just not as telegenic.

    Putin isn't a madman, though he may be a cruel asshole, like most politicians. He couldn't be technically crazy and do what he is doing. There is logic there and Russia is pushing back against real existential threats.
    Last edited by Octopus Garden, 23rd March 2023 at 23:45.

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    Quote Originally posted by Catsquotl View Post
    So what's with this peace deal China supposedly brokered between Saudi Arabia and Iran?
    That feels like the beginning of shift towards an eastern monetary power doesn't it?
    Yes, it certainly does, unless the US is in the mood to attempt bombing both Saudi Arabia (supplied with US arms) and Iran back into its sphere of influence, forcing them both to accept only American dollars for oil. The gig is up.

    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    That is the speculation and the fear of the west, primarily the U.S. as the de facto leader of the economic western powers. With proper behavior it could/should represent a forced 'balance of power'. The East wants it, the West wants it. To make a long story short it can be modeled by the Hegelian Dialectic...Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis. Everybody desires primacy which results in the classic Roman Triumvirate of power sharing. I personally believe that would be the ideal, as in the classic Greek perspective ...
    This is what the citizens want. But the US (and that definitely includes Democrats) want unipolar power. Don't be fooled.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    Well, between you and I, I tend to live my life as an anarchist but as Sir Anduril has pointed out in the past, 'responsible anarchy' is an ideal. The obvious failure of that social experiment is the responsible part.

    In terms of Romulus and Remus, that experiment notably ended in the usual failure. People that are spritually generous in nature don't crave power, thus in most cases never attain it. Truly, hierarchy based on power is doomed. (There is always somebody else that wants it) In short, we is totally f*cked up.

    Nature, of course, played its part. I've maintained this stance since high school...nature is greedy where it should be utilitarian.

    Example Given:
    According to the endosymbiotic theory, the first eukaryotic cells evolved from a symbiotic relationship between two or more prokaryotic cells. Smaller prokaryotic cells were engulfed by (or invaded) larger prokaryotic cells. The small cells (now called endosymbionts) benefited from the relationship by getting a safe home and nutrients. The large cells (now called hosts) benefited by getting some of the organic molecules or energy released by the endosymbionts. Eventually, the endosymbionts evolved into organelles of the host cells. After that, neither could live without the other.
    Sounds like symbiogenesis, (completes neo-Darwinism.) Lynn Margulis, former wife of Carl Sagan, and her son, Dorian Sagan developed the theory and wrote the book Acquiring Genomes, about this.

    A difficult read but it's obviously brilliant. Below is a review. The sea squirt somehow mated with another entirely different animal. May have been a sea urchin, not just from a different family but a different phyla. Offspring survived and were unlike either parent.

    It's like a petunia and rhinoceros mated and created a rhitunia. Seriously it's nuts but its happened. Acquiring genomes takes place in multi-celled organisms.

    I don't know how this might be analogous to the domestic or geo-political sphere, but it might be. Like the merging of democratic socialism with some emergent philosophical tradition, to create an entire new thing. Maybe AI involved.

    An early symbiotic association of cells resulted in some cases in a merger of genomes and a whole new organism, as in the cases just mentioned. Such mergers have taken place in larger life forms and the race is now on to discover new cases, such as symbiogenesis in sea squirts, with the first laboratory-induced merger now apparently a fait accompli.

    https://www.amazon.ca/Lynn-Margulis-.../dp/1603584463

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    Quote Originally posted by Octopus Garden View Post
    Yes, it certainly does, unless the US is in the mood to attempt bombing both Saudi Arabia (supplied with US arms) and Iran back into its sphere of influence, forcing them both to accept only American dollars for oil. The gig is up.



    This is what the citizens want. But the US (and that definitely includes Democrats) want unipolar power. Don't be fooled.
    Ok, where is OG?

    Quote Originally posted by Octopus Garden View Post
    Sounds like symbiogenesis, (completes neo-Darwinism.) Lynn Margulis, former wife of Carl Sagan, and her son, Dorian Sagan developed the theory and wrote the book Acquiring Genomes, about this.

    A difficult read but it's obviously brilliant. Below is a review. The sea squirt somehow mated with another entirely different animal. May have been a sea urchin, not just from a different family but a different phyla. Offspring survived and were unlike either parent.

    It's like a petunia and rhinoceros mated and created a rhitunia. Seriously it's nuts but its happened. Acquiring genomes takes place in multi-celled organisms.

    I don't know how this might be analogous to the domestic or geo-political sphere, but it might be. Like the merging of democratic socialism with some emergent philosophical tradition, to create an entire new thing. Maybe AI involved.

    An early symbiotic association of cells resulted in some cases in a merger of genomes and a whole new organism, as in the cases just mentioned. Such mergers have taken place in larger life forms and the race is now on to discover new cases, such as symbiogenesis in sea squirts, with the first laboratory-induced merger now apparently a fait accompli.

    https://www.amazon.ca/Lynn-Margulis-.../dp/1603584463
    At some point in the process, it is referred to as 'predation'.

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    Chuckie, For sure, in many cases. It's a matter of definition. Like, being absorbed into the Borg, a la Star Trek. Is it predation, incorporation, subordination, expansion? Is it coercive, persuasive, marginalizing, elevating, diminishing, freeing, imprisoning? I could go on and on.

    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    Ok, where is OG?



    At some point in the process, it is referred to as 'predation'.

    I want what you want, btw. Freedom and fairness for all with a strong sense of responsibility.

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    In ecological terms there are 5 different kinds of symbiotic relationships and they are often dynamic. So, mutualism can become commensalism over time, and vice versa.

    mutualism - a mutually beneficial symbiotic relationship
    commensalism - a one-sided symbiotic relationship
    parasitism - one species lives on, in or with a host species
    competition - relationship in which organisms compete for resources
    predation and herbivory - symbiosis where one organism feeds on another

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    Quote Originally posted by Octopus Garden View Post
    In ecological terms there are 5 different kinds of symbiotic relationships and they are often dynamic. So, mutualism can become commensalism over time, and vice versa.

    mutualism - a mutually beneficial symbiotic relationship
    commensalism - a one-sided symbiotic relationship
    parasitism - one species lives on, in or with a host species
    competition - relationship in which organisms compete for resources
    predation and herbivory - symbiosis where one organism feeds on another
    I lost the reference but the primeval and initial cellular process is actually termed predation. And that is more indicative of my point regarding the greed of nature, the fundamental predatory quality that is intrinsic to at least Earth-based life. It's hard to imagine another way but ideas have been bandied about. Direct use of solar energy, for example. But then I suppose some would argue that sun/s are 'creatures' endowed with some manner of creational life spark, some might even call it 'spirit'.

    I hesitated to use the above example because symbiosis didn't really describe the reality.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chuckie View Post
    I lost the reference but the primeval and initial cellular process is actually termed predation. And that is more indicative of my point regarding the greed of nature, the fundamental predatory quality that is intrinsic to at least Earth-based life. It's hard to imagine another way but ideas have been bandied about. Direct use of solar energy, for example. But then I suppose some would argue that sun/s are 'creatures' endowed with some manner of creational life spark, some might even call it 'spirit'.

    I hesitated to use the above example because symbiosis didn't really describe the reality.
    That's interesting. Maybe the sun is a conscious being.

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