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Thread: World War Three

  1. #1096
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Hell man it's already over, just a matter of time. The only big question is will the US neocons allow that to happen without taking the stakes all the way up to WW3.
    Perhaps you are correct because I just don't know and let's assume that you are.

    Then what would happen if Ukraine really loses? This is a dangerous game.

    Quote Originally posted by Lord Sidious View Post
    WHEN it collapses, it will be because of finances, not any other single reason.
    The rest is a distraction for the nuggets............
    Would that be a controlled collapse or a natural one?

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    Lol. Yes they will. We have a shite military. And then there won't be any resources to prop it up.
    Oh really? The last time I checked the US military industrial complex was far superior compared to anything else. That's the only really "great" thing about the United Corporations of America. The US military could wipe the floor with both the Russian and Chinese armies, although China has the numbers. Not much else, maybe some chemical agents too. There could be smaller conflicts, but there is always the nuclear deterrence. What is going to stop the potential escalation? There can be only proxy wars between these countries, because otherwise they are going to increase the risk of a global war too much.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpJLFiCj6Jc
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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  3. #1097
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    If other nations don't have resources to fill the void why is the US always pilfering in other nations for their resources?
    Partially to prop up the crumbling empire, partially to deny resources to anyone else.

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    The biggest resource America has right now is the cooperation of the West. The British Empire began to collapse when nations began pulling out of the empire. India, etc. The days of old nobility running the show in the UK came in the advance of that. By design or accident. It seems like the fastest way to end the American empire would for the UK, Poland, Australia to retract from the empire? If history serves as a primer.
    The empire didn't collapse, it had a political restructuring. Instead of being one entity, it's now like a franchise arrangement.

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    It sounds like a confidence game. Like the US dollar. The western alliance has no monetary value, just the confidence invested in it. A con game. They are called proxy nations for a reason. Did we get there because we were already part of the Empire before we became the Empire? I know our military installations in Europe are not because of an invasion--that would have hit the news some, somewhere. I find it hard to believe we invaded Poland militarily and no one objected. They are joint operations. We are there with the agreement of the host nation. The leases are hugely profitable to the host nation. That's the only value I see. Having an American army in your nation ready to defend it may have had some value decades back but not now.
    You were always part of the anglo saxon empire, trapped in debt from the day of the declaration of independance.

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    We can blame America the geographic location when America is all over the place in the West; just not within the confines of the fifty states. I guess that could be a distraction for nuggets too. And admitting you live in America while inhabiting a flat on a cobbled street in a 400-year-old building with a pub in the lobby, and having with tea, scones, blood pudding for brekkie might be a little hard to swallow but isn't that is that is what is being said when referring to proxy nations of the west? Without actually coming out and saying it. You live in America now.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8ljRgcJNM


    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    I know the UK and Germany are mirroring the economic collapse America the geographic location is . I haven't heard much about Australia situation is like.
    Trying to stay afloat, like most.

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    I know other nations in the west are mirroring the economic fall the US has. But they aren't undergoing some sort of sociological collapse as well?
    It all follows the ''money'' and/or the lack of............

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    And we could have all the toys that money and technology can buy.
    You could also have top grade medical, transport and every other form of tech a nation needs, but not both. It's either the war machine, or not...........

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    We might be fooling some of the world, but we aren't fooling China or Russia or even the Ukraine. Our military is in shambles. We could build all the toys needed but who is going to man them if I may be so politically incorrect to say so.
    The only people fooled are the fools watching tv/movies thinking it's real.

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    We haven't built a carrier since 2017.
    I believe there are 2 being built right now

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    Russia knows how woeful our military is. So does China. Especially since it's degraded drastically over the last two years due to vaccine mandates and wokeness. China and Russia haven't experienced a sudden decay of its military mores or hardware. Discipline, battle readiness, physically and mentally fit to serve. Standards have fallen here. Those able and battle ready don't want to enlist with people who aren't mentally able or battle ready. Our military is aware of how woeful it is. Battle ready means mean toxic masculinity now.
    Bearing in mind the level of toughness needed to live in the old USSR, todays Russia and China, their infantry is way tougher than any western equivilant and have been for many years. In hand to hand combat, any of us would get our arses handed to us.

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    Russia would hand our ass to us. There is no doubt China would. But seasoned veterans make more sense because they are battle ready in a way our military now is not.
    I think any conflict between the west and the east will be short and decisive.

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    Maybe we can struggle along with technological and digital remote wars or biological wars but our conventional boots on the ground, ships at sea military is shit. It's riding on its laurels and Top Gun propaganda apparently. And every honest veteran in the US will tell you the same. The American war machine seems to be convincing propaganda, but it hasn't convinced Russia or even the Ukraine.
    There is no alternative to infantry as they are the only ones that can hold ground, if it is that type of war. Long range wars may come, but conquest wars can't be long range.
    Much of the prowess of your forces is holywood invention with some help from the propogandists.

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    I don't know they will inform the world. The world will know well before the US admits they can't honor the bonds. It will still be churning out pro US propaganda and claim that its inability to honor bonds are lies made up by other nations. People who hate our freedoms!
    That's possible, but I think the shockwaves will buffet the world economy too much for it to be hidden.

    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Would that be a controlled collapse or a natural one?
    None of this is natural, it's all controlled to a degree.

    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Oh really? The last time I checked the US military industrial complex was far superior compared to anything else.
    The capacity is, however, don't forget that publicly listed companies are usually not 100% owned by the nations of origin.

    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    That's the only really "great" thing about the United Corporations of America. The US military could wipe the floor with both the Russian and Chinese armies, although China has the numbers.
    Turn off the tv. In reality, the us forces would not last long against their combined enemies.
    Who do you think makes a lot of the tech for the us forces?
    China.

    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Not much else, maybe some chemical agents too. There could be smaller conflicts, but there is always the nuclear deterrence. What is going to stop the potential escalation? There can be only proxy wars between these countries, because otherwise they are going to increase the risk of a global war too much.
    They have many things the us doesn't.
    Hypersonic missiles that can't be intercepted.
    Anti sub drones.
    Potentially on the verge of deployment, mobile rail guns.
    Stealth aircraft that can actually fly!
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  5. #1098
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Hell man it's already over, just a matter of time. The only big question is will the US neocons allow that to happen without taking the stakes all the way up to WW3.
    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Perhaps you are correct because I just don't know and let's assume that you are.

    Then what would happen if Ukraine really loses? This is a dangerous game.
    You're darn tootin it's a dangerous game, IMO this is the most dangerous game ever played.

    So here's the thing. Until you fully understand that this is nothing about Ukraine, and everything about using them as a battering ram to try and destroy Russia in a great power power play, the people from the "The Guardian" and such are going to keep on making sense. The neocons of the West, and of course especially those of their master the United States, could not give less of a shit about the people of Ukraine. They're the sacrificial lamb, same as the people of Taiwan who are planned to be the next sacrificial lamb because China's next, and sometimes they're feeling arrogant enough to just come on out and say it.

    Like it's a good thing:

    -"They will fight to the last person" -

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkbwZCqn7BY


    Unless the neocons just can't help themselves and continue with the escalation escalator, nothing will happen when Ukraine loses except that a bunch of little wormy neocons will have lost a whole lot of face before the entire world. It never had to come to this that the country had to be wrecked, but Zelensky the puppet was never allowed to compromise, and Putin will have done what he had to do to keep it from going NATO.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    You're darn tootin it's a dangerous game, IMO this is the most dangerous game ever played.

    So here's the thing. Until you fully understand that this is nothing about Ukraine, and everything about using them as a battering ram to try and destroy Russia in a great power power play, the people from the "The Guardian" and such are going to keep on making sense.
    There it is, all boiled down into a simple precis.
    Well done nugg, this is exactly correct................
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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    If Russia in the lead makes you feel blue,
    Denys Davydov has good news for you.

    He says Russia can't win.

    His view goes well with Western media. Enjoy.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    You're darn tootin it's a dangerous game, IMO this is the most dangerous game ever played.

    So here's the thing. Until you fully understand that this is nothing about Ukraine, and everything about using them as a battering ram to try and destroy Russia in a great power power play, the people from the "The Guardian" and such are going to keep on making sense. The neocons of the West, and of course especially those of their master the United States, could not give less of a shit about the people of Ukraine. They're the sacrificial lamb, same as the people of Taiwan who are planned to be the next sacrificial lamb because China's next, and sometimes they're feeling arrogant enough to just come on out and say it.

    Like it's a good thing:

    -"They will fight to the last person" -

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkbwZCqn7BY


    Unless the neocons just can't help themselves and continue with the escalation escalator, nothing will happen when Ukraine loses except that a bunch of little wormy neocons will have lost a whole lot of face before the entire world. It never had to come to this that the country had to be wrecked, but Zelensky the puppet was never allowed to compromise, and Putin will have done what he had to do to keep it from going NATO.
    What in your opinion is the battering ram? Or will be the battering ram, Fred?

    I can't see much success for the West as the war stands with Ukrainians and vols. being used up like Kleenex. It sounds deliberate in many cases. Certainly, they can't expect to win with Ukraine ground forces and its seems the US is arming and undermining them as the same time. Under federal contract, a gun manufacturer in FL sent AR 15s to the Ukraine. Everyone cheered. Yay! The people who hate guns here in the US cheered then resumed crying AR 15s.

    AR 15s against Russian military grade weapon? It sounds great because a lot of idiots think a glorified .22 is military grade. But that's a really good politic way to hike up a body count and sound all patriotic, duty doing, and blah de blah.

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  13. #1102
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    AR 15s against Russian military grade weapon? It sounds great because a lot of idiots think a glorified .22 is military grade. But that's a really good politic way to hike up a body count and sound all patriotic, duty doing, and blah de blah.
    If you get an AR 15 and an M16, the only difference is the M16 is full auto. It even has AR 15 stamped on the magazine housing.
    M16 is the military designation.
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Lord Sidious;
    The empire didn't collapse, it had a political restructuring. Instead of being one entity, it's now like a franchise arrangement.
    I know that. You know that. But that's the accepted history. People don't want to think of it another way. It's an uncomfortable truth.




    Trying to stay afloat, like most.
    I'll take that as a no. Setting aside the military conflicts abroad, here American citizens are at war with each other, culturally. That's what I mean by societal collapse. That is by design. Cooler heads say that at no time in our history have we had more opportunity for peace and tolerance, yet someone is always stirring the caca. The government outright trolls the people today. I have never seen a time when the government was obviously contemptuous of its people.





    I believe there are 2 being built right now
    As of 2018 four were under build, but the regime change and Covid halted or delayed the build for the ones slated for the US. The one's that were at 50 percent might make it but they will be replacing elderly Nimitz class. So we'll still have 10 carriers and 1 in reserve. I didn't look to see if any of these were slated for other western nations.

    Bearing in mind the level of toughness needed to live in the old USSR, todays Russia and China, their infantry is way tougher than any western equivilant and have been for many years. In hand to hand combat, any of us would get our arses handed to us.
    When people are weeping over doughnuts in America we sure don't have that toughness now. I can't verify this precisely, but I am told by ex-pats living in China that Chinese children are taught martial exercises from an early age in school. Martial arts I presume, I'm not sure if handling weapons is part of the curriculum at any point in their schooling. And serving in the military is a requirement after leaving school?

    We, on the other hand, removed gun safety classes from schools years back because it promoted "violence." It caused more accidental gun deaths. Safety promotes violence is obviously Orwellian.

    So yeah 10 year olds Chinese children could beat our asses. Here in America anyway. I won't speak for other nations.





    Turn off the tv. In reality, the us forces would not last long against their combined enemies.
    Who do you think makes a lot of the tech for the us forces?
    China.
    That. And everything else. Antibiotics, medicine--if China pulled the plug on the West, well there goes our rampant consumerism. Everyone is dependent on China now.



    They have many things the us doesn't.
    Hypersonic missiles that can't be intercepted.
    Anti sub drones.
    Potentially on the verge of deployment, mobile rail guns.
    Stealth aircraft that can actually fly!
    And that.

    Currently the US has an alleged Chinese weather balloon floating over the nation. It's being called a spy balloon. I can't believe it's a spy balloon. When did anyone last use those? China doesn't have anything more sophisticated to spy with? Well then, we shouldn't worry about China at all.

    But the point is fifty years ago something or someone would have intercepted it to find out what it was, what it might contain, or if it's really a weather balloon or not. Or if it really isn't. But somehow, we can't intercept it today. That is what the Gov says. I don't believe that exactly either. But it serves a better purpose getting people stirred up. For a reason.

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/02/asia/...-ml/index.html

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  17. #1104
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    You're darn tootin it's a dangerous game, IMO this is the most dangerous game ever played.

    So here's the thing. Until you fully understand that this is nothing about Ukraine, and everything about using them as a battering ram to try and destroy Russia in a great power power play, the people from the "The Guardian" and such are going to keep on making sense. The neocons of the West, and of course especially those of their master the United States, could not give less of a shit about the people of Ukraine. They're the sacrificial lamb, same as the people of Taiwan who are planned to be the next sacrificial lamb because China's next, and sometimes they're feeling arrogant enough to just come on out and say it.

    Like it's a good thing:

    -"They will fight to the last person" -

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkbwZCqn7BY


    Unless the neocons just can't help themselves and continue with the escalation escalator, nothing will happen when Ukraine loses except that a bunch of little wormy neocons will have lost a whole lot of face before the entire world. It never had to come to this that the country had to be wrecked, but Zelensky the puppet was never allowed to compromise, and Putin will have done what he had to do to keep it from going NATO.

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    What in your opinion is the battering ram? Or will be the battering ram, Fred?
    The country of Ukraine itself is the battering ram, namely the well armed/well trained army the US and her vassal states spent from 2014-2022 nurturing and developing. You know, using tools such as "Minsk Agreements" to buy as much time as possible toward the end of having a well trained Rooskie killer to satisfy the blood thirsty McCarthyites. That was our attack dog to help in bleeding Russia dry along with the sanctions.


    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    I can't see much success for the West as the war stands with Ukrainians and vols. being used up like Kleenex. It sounds deliberate in many cases. Certainly, they can't expect to win with Ukraine ground forces and its seems the US is arming and undermining them as the same time.
    Well now I didn't say their little pet regime change tool was working, because obviously it's about to splinter out into unmitigated disaster, just that that was the plan and there was no plan b besides running around in circles trying to fill shopping carts full of whatever else can be scrounged.

    Sure the Ukrainian people are being undermined, but I don't at all think that's intentional, it's just an unfortunate side effect of them being seen as cannon fodder for "The Plan" (kind of like the Kurds). If the plan works the people assume official vassal state status, if the plan doesn't work, them and their once beautiful country are ground into dust. Makes no matter either way for the war pigs.

    Taiwan is the next bludgeoning tool now in the on deck circle, Japan is also being sharpened, South Korea is in the mix, etc...

    You'd think at some point these "tools" might start waking up and thinking "ummmmm, I don't think I want to be this front line tool for you any longer". That's what needs to happen anyway...
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    The slur known as "China", is soon to be competing with the slur known as "Russia", for WW3 news as "The Narrative" broadens in scope towards the big prize (which is taking down China before it gets too strong to handle).

    I couldn't agree more with Gonzalo Lira on this one, they're going to milk this ridiculous story for all it's worth. It's embarrassing...

    But once you get the hang of recognizing what's really going on here, the big picture and how these neocons operate hand in hand with their partners in establishment media, the tactics and protocols are so easy to spot they appear child like in nature. They are child like in nature, and it works, we're already being primed for "China Bad!" day in, day out. Don't forget Taiwan is the next Ukraine, war with China by 2025 baby!

    Bizarro World continues.

    (11:43 long)
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Lord Sidious View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    Under federal contract, a gun manufacturer in FL sent AR 15s to the Ukraine. Everyone cheered. Yay! The people who hate guns here in the US cheered then resumed crying AR 15s.

    AR 15s against Russian military grade weapon? It sounds great because a lot of idiots think a glorified .22 is military grade. But that's a really good politic way to hike up a body count and sound all patriotic, duty doing, and blah de blah.
    If you get an AR 15 and an M16, the only difference is the M16 is full auto. It even has AR 15 stamped on the magazine housing.
    M16 is the military designation.
    Correctamundo, Sidinugget, although to be more precise, one would have to say that the M16 and its carbine variant, the M4, are select-fire weapons; they can fire both in semi-auto mode and either in full-auto or in 3-round-burst mode, depending on the variant in use — the original Vietnam-era M16, the improved M16A1 and the newer M16A3 all have a full-auto mode, but the M16A2 has a 3-round-burst mode instead. And even though the civilian-grade AR15s are commonly said (in the USA) to be chambered in .223 Remington — which is actually a .222 in diameter — they are actually chambered for the full-power 5.56 x 45 mm NATO round.

    5.56 x 45 mm NATO is in essence the same thing as .223 Remington but more powerful, and as such, slight changes were made to the shape of the neck of the 5.56 mm NATO cartridge, because it holds a lot more propellant than the civilian .223 Remington, and thus loading a 5.56 mm NATO cartridge into a rifle chambered for .223 Remington would be catastrophic for the shooter. The gas pressure of a 5.56 mm NATO is so high that a weapon chambered for the civilian-grade .223 Remington hunting cartridge — e.g. a .223 bolt-action rifle — would explode. The changes to the neck of the round prevent the military-grade ammo from being loaded in a rifle that was truly chambered for .223 Remington.

    The opposite is doable, though; one can easily fire civilian-grade .223 Remington ammo from a rifle chambered for 5.56 mm NATO, albeit that one would probably have to adjust the gas valve — if the weapon has one; most AR15-based rifles do not because they don't have a gas piston and use direct impingement instead — in order to send more gas onto the piston for the weapon to cycle reliably with the less powerful ammo.

    The bottom line is that you only need to replace the fire selector — which is also the safety — on a civilian AR15 to turn it into a fully militarized version. There might be some other small differences — e.g. a cartridge deflector behind the ejection port, which the civilian AR15 normally does not have (although this depends on the manufacturer) — but they are essentially the same weapon.





    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    Currently the US has an alleged Chinese weather balloon floating over the nation. It's being called a spy balloon. I can't believe it's a spy balloon. When did anyone last use those? China doesn't have anything more sophisticated to spy with? Well then, we shouldn't worry about China at all.
    That's also what the US military said, but they still decided to shoot it down, because Uncle Sam's an exhibitionist, and he has yet to meet a Dirty Commie™ that he doesn't feel compelled to show his dick to.



    Allegedly there's another one floating around over South America as well, but ain't nuffin' Uncle Sam can do 'bout that.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Lord Sidious View Post
    If you get an AR 15 and an M16, the only difference is the M16 is full auto. It even has AR 15 stamped on the magazine housing.
    M16 is the military designation.
    In America media an AR can blast through walls and blow-up people....except they can't.

    My point exactly, thank you. The M 16 is another not-impressive weapon which is probably why our military stopped using it. The weapon that lost the Vietnam war. While it's true the AR was modified from the M 16 and comparable too it, it still doesn't make it a choice military weapon or civil defense weapon. It's popular in America for home defense not civilian defense. The effect the AR 15 has with that is just an affect. They were sent to the Ukraine for that reason. Just an affect, not effectiveness.

    https://www.alloutdoor.com/2020/08/1...cable%20things.

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    Senior Member United States Diabolical Boids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    The slur known as "China", is soon to be competing with the slur known as "Russia", for WW3 news as "The Narrative" broadens in scope towards the big prize which is taking down China before it gets too strong to handle).
    A bit late to the game for that, aren't we?

    we're already being primed for "China Bad!" day in, day out. Don't forget Taiwan is the next Ukraine, war with China by 2025 baby!
    I suspect that's what the Chinese weather/ spy balloon hysteria was about. It was floating around in US airspace for ye so many days before anyone made mention of it. Then it was all shrill hysteria how the Chinese were staring at our nuclear installations. Or cows. A shot thrown across the bow. Not at the Chinese but at the American people to get them primed and on board with a war we can't win. And probably could have been handled diplomatically.

    It's like watching a one player tennis game. Is the US is trying to destroy itself and the West or trying to maintain it's now imaginary supremacy. Are you serving Russia or trying to pick a war with it?
    Last edited by Wind, 6th February 2023 at 20:58.

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  27. #1109
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    In America media an AR can blast through walls and blow-up people....except they can't.
    It cannot blow up people, but it most certainly can shoot through walls, depending on what those walls are made of.

    The 5.56 x 45 mm NATO round may be small, but it's a high-velocity round. The bullet leaves the barrel at approximately 900 to 990 meter per second — which is about 2.5 to 2.7 times the speed of sound — depending on the barrel length. The higher velocities are achieved with a full-size barrel, while the lower ones are achieved when the barrel has been shortened due to the incomplete pressure buildup of the ignited propellant, as in the case of the M4 carbine with its 14" barrel.

    The bullet is also highly tapered and designed for penetration rather than stopping power. The sheer velocity is what gives the 5.56 mm NATO round its power. It can still penetrate a 3-mm-thick steel helmet at 500 meters, and a single well-placed round can cleanly decapitate an adult human.

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    My point exactly, thank you. The M 16 is another not-impressive weapon which is probably why our military stopped using it.
    I don't know where you get your information from, but the A2, A3 and A4 versions of the M16 rifle and M4 carbine are still the standard-issue assault rifle in all branches of the US military.

    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    While it's true the AR was modified from the M 16 and comparable too it, it still doesn't make it a choice military weapon or civil defense weapon.
    Wrong again. The AR was not modified from the M16, but rather the other way around.

    The weapon started its life as the Armalite AR-10, designed by Eugene Stoner in the early 1950s, and it looked very similar to what it looks like now, but it was chambered for the 7.62 x 51 mm NATO round, which is a more powerful version of the .308 Winchester cartridge. At the time, the US military opted to go with the Garand M14 as the successor to the World War II era Garand M1 due to Garand's promise that the same production lines could be used for the M14 as for the M1, even though this was a lie. The AR-10 did however go into production nevertheless, even though it had not been adopted by the US military. Fidel Castro even intercepted a large shipment of AR-10s that the US had supplied to Batista's troops during the Cuban revolution, and both Castro and Guevara were impressed with the AR-10's performance.

    Then the Vietnam war happened, and the Garand M14 proved a bad choice for jungle fights, because it was too big, too heavy, and the 7.62 mm NATO round had too much recoil for fully automatic fire from a shoulder-fired weapon. Eugene Stoner then adapted his AR-10 design to the smaller 5.56 x 45 mm NATO round, which meant less recoil, a higher rate of fire on full-auto, and the trooper could carry more ammunition for the same weight. This modified version became the AR-15. After some testing by the US military, the AR-15 was adopted as their standard infantry rifle and rebadged to M16.

    The reason why the first M16s did badly in Vietnam was that they didn't have a chrome-lined barrel and chamber yet, and that the three-prong flash hider was prone to catching on twigs and leaves. Also, the initial magazine capacity was only 20 rounds. This was then remedied later with the M16A1, which had a chrome-lined barrel and chamber, a different type of flash hider, 30-round magazines, an ejection port cover, a forward-assist, and a cartridge deflector behind the ejection port. For most of the Vietnam war, the US military were using the M16A1 variant, quite often also equipped with an under-barrel M203 40 mm grenade launcher.

    Still, what proved detrimental under those circumstances was that most M16s produced in those days were full-length rifles — the carbine versions were still being regarded as experimental and were produced in much smaller numbers — which made them cumbersome to use in the dense jungle of South-East Asia. And conversely, the Vietnamese were using the Russian AK-47s, which fired a bigger bullet — which had more stopping power — and which were designed and manufactured with much greater tolerances. This made the AK-47 a lot less accurate than an AR-15, but also far less prone to jamming due to the ingress of debris and dirt, and they were also more compact and thus easier to use in jungle combat. The AK-47 also has a long-stroke piston-operated gas system instead of the direct-impingement system on an AR-based rifle, which means that it's less prone to fouling up and thus requires less maintenance.

    The bottom line is that the AR-15 was the weapon that the M16 was based off, not the other way around. And nowadays, the term "AR" has become a generic word for any rifle or carbine based upon Eugene Stoner's AR-10/AR-15 design. The letters "AR" initially stood for "Armalite", the company Eugene Stoner worked for, but during the Vietnam war, the US military contracted other manufacturers — such as Colt and Remington — and allowed them to produce M16 rifles as well. And in the meantime, just about every western firearms manufacturer makes AR-style rifles.

    The M16 may not be the best of assault rifles, but it's not quite the worst either. Its current design is fairly reliable and it's relatively simple to field-strip for maintenance. There's also a huge aftermarket industry to fall back on for replacement parts and accessories. The downside however is the direct-impingement system, which causes the rifle to require more frequent and more thorough cleaning, although some of the civilian-market ARs now come with a short-stroke gas piston system instead, as is common on the newer assault rifle designs from FN, Steyr, IWI, H&K, SiG and others.

    One may think of the AR design as one wishes, but please don't make the mistake of thinking of it as a glorified .22. It has nothing in common with the .22 other than the bullet diameter, and even that isn't really the same. And while the first M16 designs performed poorly in the Vietnamese war, this was not the reason why the US lost that war. The US lost the Vietnam war for the same reason as why the Soviets lost the Afghanistan war, i.e. they were fighting a war on a type of terrain they were not sufficiently trained for, and against an enemy who already had nothing left to lose.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  29. #1110
    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    What also fucked up the original M 16 was that the recoil spring was too weak.
    So the next model had a little device on the right side of the body that you would hit with the heel of your right hand after loading and cocking the weapon, known as ''bolt assist'' to chamber the round 100%.
    In case anyone wants to know, I was a number 2 scout in an assault section within an armoured recon regt and guess what weapon I was issued while I was scout?
    You got it............
    Last edited by Lord Sidious, 5th February 2023 at 14:46. Reason: Misspellingnuggetry
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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