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Thread: World War Three

  1. #1471
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Another narrative may be allowing you both to be correct, law of war, 11.3, TOTal world involvement but can you see it ?.

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  3. #1472
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Putin has no aims of being the next Hitler.
    I don't think he intends to be the next Hitler, he's just another dictator and the world has seen plenty of them.
    He's a good "nemesis" and as he opposes the plans of the West he has been a big nuisance for the West too.

    For what it's worth, Hitler himself didn't think himself doing anything bad. He was just trying to make Germany great, albeit his methods were abhorrent. For Putin the fall of Soviet Union was a disaster. He'd like to have it back. Yet I don't think he's insane enough to try to actually take back other sovereign countries, which he shouldn't have done with Ukraine either, but he fell victim to the provocation from the West.

    Even then you have to understand that Russia tends to have a very bad reputation when it comes to it's neighbours too.

    Do you understand why that might be? Because people have had to live in fear due to not knowing what they might do.

    Who the hell wants a neighbour like that? Bear in mind that this has nothing to do with Russian people, only the government.

    I think most governments suck. Personally I detest the mentality of might is right, I don't care which country is doing that.

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I’ve seen that the new age of McCarthyism began after the 2014 coup, and of course most especially about how they’re supposedly the world’s god of propaganda and election interference, but nothing about some radical shift to frenzied fascism.

    Please do enlighten?
    Where should I even begin?

    Documentary after documentary and book after book it was obvious that things were turning bad in Russia for a lot of people.

    Most sane people have fled from Russia because by now it has become a country which has no room for freedom of thinking or freedom of speech. What do you call that, a democracy? If you go with the narrative of the Russian government then you might be relatively safe as much as you can be in a dictatorship ruled by corruption, but anything else than being a "patriot" means that you are a traitor who's life will get very unpleasant.

    Disliking Putin's government doesn't mean that I have to take side with West's narrative either.

    I know it was a provocation from US and NATO, but there was no right for Putin to act like that.

    I don't have the ability to see future either and know how this war might turn out to be.

    Rumours are saying that the Ukrainian counter offensive might start next week.

    One thing leads to another and war in Ukraine might lead to something else.
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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  5. #1473
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    How much of ww2 still lurked during ww3 n post ww3 ?


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  7. #1474
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Putin has no aims of being the next Hitler.
    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    I don't think he intends to be the next Hitler, he's just another dictator and the world has seen plenty of them.
    Then why use the term "Putler"? That's about as direct correlation as one can get.

    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Yet I don't think he's insane enough to try to actually take back other sovereign countries, which he shouldn't have done with Ukraine either, but he fell victim to the provocation from the West.

    Even then you have to understand that Russia tends to have a very bad reputation when it comes to it's neighbours too.

    Do you understand why that might be? Because people have had to live in fear due to not knowing what they might do.
    I'm hoping you can help me understand. Not that Putin is a love pot and microdot kind of guy, but exactly who are these neighbors that tremble in such fear, and what are their survival stories? The only real adventurism I see, is that of the West.



    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I’ve seen that the new age of McCarthyism began after the 2014 coup, and of course most especially about how they’re supposedly the world’s god of propaganda and election interference, but nothing about some radical shift to frenzied fascism.
    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Where should I even begin?

    Documentary after documentary and book after book it was obvious that things were turning bad in Russia for a lot of people.
    What are some of these books and documentaries? These are broad generalities that sound very similar to our new friend Ian Garner Lots of wild accusations, minus any footnotes to back them up.

    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Most sane people have fled from Russia because by now it has become a country which has no room for freedom of thinking or freedom of speech. What do you call that, a democracy
    Pfffft, I no longer even think democracy, is democracy. It's only a buzz word any more.

    But again these are broad generalities you're laying out here, with qualities sounding very in line with Western elite talking points designed for domestic audiences, where is there evidence that all the sane people have left Russia? That's quite the claim.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  9. #1475
    Retired Member Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    Ukraine Strikes Back

    Ukraine releases a trailer for the upcoming counter offensive against Russia.

    The crosses on the tanks shown evoke a certain German admiration.

    Gotta love the rabid looking Putin on the thumbnail.


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  11. #1476
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Then why use the term "Putler"? That's about as direct correlation as one can get.
    He could use a moustache, don't you think? Let's just put it this way, I'm not a fan and many aren't.

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I'm hoping you can help me understand. Not that Putin is a love pot and microdot kind of guy, but exactly who are these neighbors that tremble in such fear, and what are their survival stories? The only real adventurism I see, is that of the West.
    Are you playing simple Fred or just really don't know? It's not like that people would be trembling in fear, well maybe some are, but in this baltic region there is a lot of upset towards Russia for their past transgressions and current ones. Lots of old issues, ones before I was even born and I get to hear about them. Poland, do they love Russia? Georgia? I doubt that. Estonia? I doubt that. Finland, Sweden? Well, I can tell you that we have HIGH doubts about the stability and sanity of Russian government, let's just put it that way. Shall I go on? When the Soviet Union fell it was freedom, but also caused lots of issues in many former soviet countries and bloody revolutions came. Europe has it's complicated history and Russia wasn't exactly loved here.

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    What are some of these books and documentaries? These are broad generalities that sound very similar to our new friend Ian Garner Lots of wild accusations, minus any footnotes to back them up.
    There's almost too many to name, with little digging you could find many.

    If you like researching things then why haven't researched this issue?

    For example try reading books by Svetlana Alexievich.

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    But again these are broad generalities you're laying out here, with qualities sounding very in line with Western elite talking points designed for domestic audiences, where is there evidence that all the sane people have left Russia? That's quite the claim.
    Not all, but many. Especially young people. To the point that Russia is suffering from it's brain drain. In other countries and cities like Tbilisi in Georgia have been flooded with Russians and thus the rent prices have been exploding. Why have they left? Because they didn't want to die in a fucking useless war orchestrated by one crackpot who was tempted into it by the West. Ukraine? They're just pawns too...

    Honestly I'm not interested in debating this very obvious stuff anymore.

    You have your views, it's cool and we can just agree to disagree.

    Here's one quarter of a century old Russian with his thoughts.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6fw5wv09-c
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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  13. #1477
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Honestly I'm not interested in debating this very obvious stuff anymore.
    Sorry to have bored you.

    I was more looking to know some of your information sources, and maybe nail down once and for all whether Putin is just another run of the mill dictator or the next Hitler, not so much to debate. We were about done with that pending future events on the ground.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Sorry to have bored you.
    You didn't bore me, I just think it's a waste of time and energy when our opinions are so different about the matter.

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I was more looking to know some of your information sources, and maybe nail down once and for all whether Putin is just another run of the mill dictator or the next Hitler
    I'd like to hear what good might you have to say about Putin? Besides that he's been one of the few major figures to oppose US.
    Last edited by Wind, 30th May 2023 at 19:09.
    "The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon

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    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Most sane people have fled from Russia because by now it has become a country which has no room for freedom of thinking or freedom of speech.
    Come on nugg, take a deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep breath, calm down and stop bein a nugget.
    This is just stupid and not worthy of your time.
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  19. #1480
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    I don't think it's fair to compare Putin to Hitler. Yes, he's a dictator and a ruthless murderer, but that's about where the comparison ends. Hitler was a neurotic narcissist, whereas Putin is more of a mafia boss — he's an oligarch, after all. Also, Hitler sought to build an empire of Aryan people, whereas Putin inherited a former empire and is geopolitically much more isolationist — he wants to be (and remain) the undisputed king of Russia, but he doesn't concern himself with the rest of the world beyond being recognized as an equal partner at the negotiating table of the world's economical affairs.

    In spite of himself, Putin was actively provoked by the western countries — led by Uncle Sam, of course — into marking off his territory by seizing the country that the West was trying to use against him in their bullying tactics. What he did was morally wrong, but the Cold War was very much alive again, and so he made the strategic decision to take Ukraine before NATO could take it — which it would have if Putin hadn't done anything at all. But there's the catch: his strategic move had been anticipated and even hoped for by the West, because — as Fred has now already illustrated several times — the West's goal is to eliminate Russia as a superpower so that the whole world could become a US monopoly one step at a time, and that's also exactly why China is the next target on Uncle Sam's list.

    Regardless of how many insane dictators there are in the world, the reality of things is that they are seldom a threat to anyone beyond their own countries, and that the USA, as an extension or possible relocation of the old British Empire, has for many decades already been infiltrating and subverting almost every sovereign nation on this planet — as well as supporting fascist dictators in Africa, the Middle East and South America — with the intent of becoming the sole and undisputed owner of the entire world. And the USA is a de facto fascist empire, as I've already illustrated several times before.





    Source: ratical.org


    The 14 Characteristics of Fascism

    by Lawrence Britt


    Free Inquiry Magazine, 2003


    Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

    The 14 characteristics are:


    01. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

    Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.


    02. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

    Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.


    03. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

    The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists; terrorists; etc.


    04. Supremacy of the Military

    Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.


    05. Rampant Sexism

    The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.


    06. Controlled Mass Media

    Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.


    07. Obsession with National Security

    Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.


    08. Religion and Government are Intertwined

    Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.


    09. Corporate Power is Protected

    The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.


    10. Labor Power is Suppressed

    Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.


    11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

    Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.


    12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment

    Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.


    13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

    Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.


    14. Fraudulent Elections

    Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.


    Copyright © 2003 Free Inquiry magazine
    Reprinted for Fair Use Only.


    Source: ratical.org





    Putin is not a fascist. He simply uses the fascists in his country to serve his needs, but he does it out of opportunism rather than out of conviction. Again, he's an oligarch, and he runs his country like a mafia boss.

    Lastly, let me remind everyone here that Zelenskyy is no saint either. He rose to power after a fascist coup — supported by the West — in which the democratically elected president Viktor Yanukovych was ousted, and now he's touring the world like a rock star, not so as to promote an album, but so as to incessantly beg for more military equipment. And he gets it every time, because "Russia bad, Ukraine good".

    Or let me put it another way. Putin is a bastard and I don't like him. But unlike Zelenskyy and anyone representing the US government or the Pentagon, Putin doesn't make me want to vomit with disgust yet every time I see his picture in the news.

    Just my two Eurocents worth. Your mileage may vary.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  21. #1481
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I don't think it's fair to compare Putin to Hitler. Yes, he's a dictator and a ruthless murderer, but that's about where the comparison ends. Hitler was a neurotic narcissist, whereas Putin is more of a mafia boss — he's an oligarch, after all. Also, Hitler sought to build an empire of Aryan people, whereas Putin inherited a former empire and is geopolitically much more isolationist — he wants to be (and remain) the undisputed king of Russia, but he doesn't concern himself with the rest of the world beyond being recognized as an equal partner at the negotiating table of the world's economical affairs.
    That's the West though. If you aren't playing nice, and sharing (letting your nation be exploited for resource) and joining the NATO clique to dominate and bully everyone you must be a bully yourself. Or Hitler. Or a Nazi. Or the Anti Christ. Tally up how many "Look let's just get along and grow our economies and keep our hands out of each others pants" leaders have you seen vanish under that US led Western mindset. For all his faults, Putin didn't just disappear or cave in.

    Going off track here a little a lot of people invest in the old Edgar Cayce prophecy that Russia would be savior of the world. But....Edgar didn't say Putin was a swell guy or a nice guy. Another prevailing attitude. That something can't happen for the good or best optimal outcome unless the people involved are all morally pure and likeable.

    In spite of himself, Putin was actively provoked by the western countries — led by Uncle Sam, of course — into marking off his territory by seizing the country that the West was trying to use against him in their bullying tactics.
    Again a Western mentality. It's a childish mentality. The US / West provokes and badgers and when someone gets annoyed and snaps back the US / West is really the victim, the injured victim that needs revenge and restitution (resources) and the whole world has to join in to get it.

    the West's goal is to eliminate Russia as a superpower so that the whole world could become a US monopoly one step at a time, and that's also exactly why China is the next target on Uncle Sam's list.
    So, it's not a case of good vs evil but Russia is serving a purpose of not letting the US automatically absorb the entire world. That might buy some time, get other nations on board that want a more moderate dual polarity world instead of the singularity black hole the US is dragging us into. Really, the US is the burglar climbing through the living room window and then crying because the homeowner leveled a shot gun at them. Another western absurdity that exists in law some municipalities in the US: Attractive Nuisance.

    The robber is innocent because Russia has something that attracted them to Russia that they want so that makes Russia guilty.

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  23. #1482
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Diabolical Boids View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    In spite of himself, Putin was actively provoked by the western countries — led by Uncle Sam, of course — into marking off his territory by seizing the country that the West was trying to use against him in their bullying tactics.
    Again a Western mentality. It's a childish mentality. The US / West provokes and badgers and when someone gets annoyed and snaps back the US / West is really the victim, the injured victim that needs revenge and restitution (resources) and the whole world has to join in to get it.
    There was actually another such item in the news today, albeit only via a news article at Slashdot, and only for those capable of putting two and two together.

    The thing is that the USA and the West in general have been boycotting China for years now on all fronts in terms of Chinese-made technology and other Chinese products, and now that China bans the use of certain computer chips made in the USA, the USA is outraged — yes, outraged!

    I mean, just how stupid does one have to be to fall for that charade?
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member Lord Sidious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Just my two Eurocents worth. Your mileage may vary.
    Can I get a refund if your quote is wrong?

    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    I mean, just how stupid does one have to be to fall for that charade?
    Not just dumber than dogshit, but the place they dump all the dogshit.................
    Ní siocháin go saoirse

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  27. #1484
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Sen. Lindsay Graham - He may be a reckless neocon, but he's our reckless neocon.

    "Best money we've ever spent". Yep, tens of thousands here in the world's richest country die every year because of unaffordable health care, and tens of thousands more succumb to medical bankruptcy, even as our infrastructure lags further and further behind much of the rest of the world. But hey, hundreds of thousands are dying in a country that's being decimated in the name of taking out a political foe of Big Brother, so as Mr. Rourke used to say "smiles everyone, smiles".

    Yes, and of course it wouldn't be a true Sen. Neocon photo op, without his beaming admiration for a country he helped strong arm into war, and fighting to the last man. Again, "smiles all around". War is always cause for celebration with his kind, his mentor John McCain taught him well.

    Oh, and "the Russians are dying", but not Ukrainians, they're loving it! "Smiles everyone, and now back to the culture war for you ignorant and unwashed masses, leave the important stuff to us elites".

    And finally. Yes President Zelensky, they came to your territory, and you have no idea why? Nothing about a US led right wing coup, followed by eight years of shelling civilians in the Donbass, 16,000 worth? Oh, that's right never mind, they just came in because they're unpredictable wild eyed fascists, with an insatiable taste for the blood of innocents. I almost forgot my lines...
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Retired Member Morocco modwiz's Avatar
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    South Africa combines cajones with lawfare. Good mix against a hegemon.


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