So now with the fall of heavily fortified Avdiivka, what's left of the reconstituted Azov Brigade (now called the 3rd Assault Brigade) once again making their last stand deep in the bowels of a huge factory as they did also in Mariupol, and difficult terrain to defend from here on out, I'm getting flashbacks of the famous "Cool Hand Luke" boxing scene running through my head.
What I'm now wondering is where does unwavering support for Ukraine end, and unwavering hate for Putin begin?
What I personally want is what's best for all concerned, both Russia and Ukraine alike. I'm at the point where seeing Ukraine remaining obliged to fight on no matter what by the US, is turning my stomach just as it started doing with Luke's fellow prisoner's toward the end of this beating in starting to turn away, and advising "stay down you're beat". Or in this real life case: "end the slaughter, return to that negotiating table for real this time before it gets ever worse - again...
I want to see Ukraine survive this, but if they're compelled to "fight to the last Ukrainian" as the war hawks are demanding, we're libel to see this nation just disappear from the map in ruins.
But if I'm in this just for the shear hatred of this Russian leader, and seeing him finally getting what's coming to him, I'm fully on board with keeping this dead man walking so long as he can still be taking Russians out with him.
How long do you think this should go on with the overall good of Ukraine in mind, to the bitter end if need be? Do you believe Zelensky even has any real say in the matter?
Predictable that even in being forced to admit the Ukrainians just suffered another major loss (this one a route as the army begins its inevitable collapse), we still only hear about very likely inflated numbers of Russian dead, with apparently yet again, zero losses for Ukraine. Yet it's Ukraine suffering a massive shortage of manpower. Huh...
There's also the usual that the only way the Russians can win any victory in the first place is through mass casualty human wave attacks, inferring of course that their military is actually very poorly run, their weapons and equipment inferior to that of the west.
And lastly, no matter what major city it was that fell, it's only a moral booster and nothing more because every single city that falls, is somehow strategically insignificant. No major crossroads or rail lines to be found, in and around any of them.
Now on the other hand, discussions like the following between Professor John Mearsheimer, Aaron Maté and Katie Halper are a breath of fresh air. From 22:15 - 1:03:10, we get a sober and objective overview of what's going on in the world out there.
It's painfully obvious from the very get go why true journalists, academics and intellectuals the types of these three, are considered persona non grata around any and all mainstream outlets. We can't have level headed analysis dirtying up with what the song sheet says.
Also, something I've noticed just recently about Mearsheimer that was never there before, is him not only noticing and commenting on alternative media, he now considers himself a part of it. He's not blind, nor a stupid man. He's seeing doors slamming in his face (and others like him) that previously were always open before "The Narrative" took precedence, and is embracing his new status as an alt media guy proudly, and with open arms.
He's basically looked at the situation, thought about it, and concluded “well fuck 'em then.This is the new me"...
How long do you think this should go on with the overall good of Ukraine in mind, to the bitter end if need be?
End of what? Jesus Christ, I really don’t want to go through all your old bullshit, can you just tell me: you think that Russia’s
…well what do you call it, I don’t want to say “invasion”…I’m sure that’s my western propaganda talking…can I call it Putin’s use of the military in Ukraine….it is entirely to stop nazis there. Ukraine (and the US) should lay down any arms…cuz there’s nothing they need to defend themselves from?
When you are not discussing your research or perspective or other’s “research” or perception of you…the bits of “data” your providing and questions you are asking seem to imply that. Please correct me.
Utterly ridiculous, but I reckon if you're going to lie, make it a whopper. By the numbers, if we just take active duty deaths since this piece was written in June of 2022, it comes out to 120,000. And the casualty rates exploded from that rate of 200 per day since the beginning of that failed offensive last summer.
Speaking alongside Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin in Brussels after meeting with allies involved in supporting Ukraine, Gen. Mark Milley said public assessments that as many as 200 Ukrainians soldiers are dying every day match the American military’s understanding of the battlefield carnage.
Even worse came from Ursula von der Leyen, the Head of the European Commission, when she let slip the number killed was at 100,000 as of November 2022. And how many since then?
The army Ukraine started this war with was supposedly somewhere around 250,000 - that army is already long gone, they've been frantically conscripting the whole time, to where now they're even trying to snag young Ukrainian men from overseas.
If they've only lost 31,000 then why the ongoing mad scramble?
And then there was this oddity:
Zelensky also floated the possibility of attending a possible peace summit in Switzerland in the spring, though cautioned Russia may not be involved. He said that Putin “does not want to end this war.”
First off, the dirty little secret is long out that Zelensky was told to leave ongoing peace negotiations in Instanbul early on in the war by the US and Great Britain.
And second, what kind of peace talks don't include you're fucking adversary? Putin has commented time and time again that he's willing to talk - it's been the US, and likely TPTB on Ukraine's hard Right, that won't stand for any type of negotiations.
Although in all fairness to Zelenski, if he were to break ranks and try to negotiate, he'd probably be hung from the nearest tree. And he knows it.
This is to the last Ukrainian, and there's still Ukrainians left.
Just obscene that this is being done to that poor nation. All the trappings of a ritual by the likes of this ghoul...
First off, the dirty little secret is long out that Zelensky was told to leave ongoing peace negotiations in Instanbul early on in the war by the US and Great Britain.
And second, what kind of peace talks don't include you're fucking adversary? Putin has commented time and time again that he's willing to talk - it's been the US, and likely TPTB on Ukraine's hard Right, that won't stand for any type of negotiations.
Although in all fairness to Zelenski, if he were to break ranks and try to negotiate, he'd probably be hung from the nearest tree. And he knows it.
So this is a bit of clarification straight from War Mongering Neolib Central. Apparently, there is planned a two step conference for Ukrainian officials this spring in Geneva. The first meeting, an internal one, is to come up with terms to be presented to Russia, in the second conference when Russia is invited.
So much here, and of course none of it is recognized in outlets such as MSNBC that cater to a brain washed, stupefied audience.
For starters, if things are so dire, you don't have to wait until spring to begin peace negotiations. If the goal is to stop the bleeding, then try stopping right now - tourniquet FFS! How many more lives are going to be shattered, how much more of your country ruined, between now and then?
Second, the losing side is not the side that's in the position of setting terms. You had a chance to negotiate from a position of strength both when the war first broke out, and again when you took back all that territory. But now, you've put yourself, and your country, in the awkward position of negotiating from a state of weakness, from a state of ruin.
Consider yourself lucky that you'll be capitulating to the Russians, and not the US, the US would offer you nothing but unconditional surrender and I really don't think Russia is going to do that. They're certainly in the position to do so, and that position only grows stronger by the day at this point as it all finally begins to unravel, but they're not going to do that to their fellow Slavs.
You're not going to get the kind of deals you could have gotten from the first two missed opportunities, and you're still going to have to drop your drawers and grab your ankles, but you'll still have some pieces available to pick up and try to start rebuilding.
The deal you'll get come spring, won't even be as good as the deal you could get right fucking now. Stop the bleeding...
Edit:
I forgot the desperate plea for artillery at the end, just get them the artillery that they need!
What artillery? Even if they managed to get that latest tranche of billions more from congress, where do you buy it from? US and NATO stocks have already all but been depleted by now, is this just a way for these shameless and hyper partisan shit libs to start casting the blame for defeat onto the republicans in a presidential election year?
Ukraine ain't a gettin no more damn artillary, that's why they're using cluster bombs now.
NATO has come perilously to disarming itself in this fruitless venture, and parts of it are also now in the process of de-industrialization because of backfiring sanctions.
This is getting bizarre, almost like some CIA type fuckery is in the works. Compare all this to the post above and it's all over the damn map, all at the same time. Mind games anyone? It won't affect the battlefield like all the other propaganda along the way, but the mind set of people following along from the cheap seats is a different story.
Things are bad
We're not losing
Victory is our only path
Talks
No talks
Will offer Putin our terms
Putin is retreating
Only giving Putin a platform to admit his defeat
When queried about the potential for negotiations with Putin to bring an end to the war, President Zelenskyy expressed skepticism about the feasibility of dialogue with a leader who, in his view, resorts to eliminating his adversaries.
Zelenskyy stated, "We will offer him a platform where he can acknowledge his defeat.
Is Ukraine losing this war? Certainly not.
Victory is our only path.
He noted that every retreat by Putin significantly impacts Russian society
no return to talks until Russian forces withdraw.
This uncompromising position from Ukraine comes amidst reports from NBC News citing US and European officials. These reports suggest private discussions among the US, EU, and Ukraine regarding potential peace negotiations with Russia.
So part of trying to figure out what's going on in situations like this, is finding the right people that know what the hell they're talking about to listen to. I doubt very seriously any of us here are qualified military strategists, much less ones that have battlefield experience, and listening to these cable news type shitlibs/neocons (all different stripes of the same tiger) is succeeding in nothing but the continued mainlining deep state propaganda into one's veins.
Garbage in/Garbage out...
This guy has vast training and battlefield experience. Even though it was indeed in service if the US deep state, a battlefield is still a battlefield, and training cannot be overlooked in lieu of just a plethora of dollars and weapons minus those critical fundamentals.
Anyway, the tv and mainstream talking heads have been proven wrong throughout the course of this war that never should have been in the first place, and they're being steadily exposed as reality inevitably sets in despite the empty rhetoric that for a time worked so well; so I invite you to give a listen to those who have actually been there done that, and know what the hell they're talking about.
Retired US Army Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Davis is one such person, do give him a listen. Of course buy no means do voiced experiences such as his solve the puzzle, but they can be invaluable pieces , of the grand puzzle.
Don't mind my ramblings, this is just a good place to boil down a head full of ideas and information into a basic understanding of things at any given time.
So things are going so well for Ukraine, that Western European leaders like Emmanuel Macron are toying with the idea of sending in ground troops. By no means is this is a good outlet to find accurate information, but it's an excellent place to view which way of thinking Western elites want us leaning next. Troops to Ukraine might just be the next logical step for those marching to the tune of this drummer, and the manufacturing of public consent is always a vital aspect when Johnny goes marching off to war.
After all, according to Western logic - "Either we fight them over there, or we fight them over here":
It might just be time to pull up stakes on these periphery threads, and re-open shop back up here for a good bit of this commentary.
That's where the meat of this conversation actually belongs. Not about defending at even the cost of igniting WW3 a poor fledgling democracy being pillaged by the evil "Red Boogieman" (that's just the fairy tale cover story like wmd's in Iraq), but a hegemonic world order using this poor nation as a sacrificial battering ram in a desperate attempt to beat down its perceived enemies, and cling to that position of world dominance.
Taiwan may just be the next sacrificial battering ram. But that's for another time and another place.
Last edited by Fred Steeves, 27th February 2024 at 14:55.
Don't mind my ramblings, this is just a good place to boil down a head full of ideas and information into a basic understanding of things at any given time.
So things are going so well for Ukraine, that Western European leaders like Emmanuel Macron are toying with the idea of sending in ground troops. By no means is this is a good outlet to find accurate information, but it's an excellent place to view which way of thinking Western elites want us leaning next. Troops to Ukraine might just be the next logical step for those marching to the tune of this drummer, and the manufacturing of public consent is always a vital aspect when Johnny goes marching off to war.
Yep, it made the news over here. But then again, as with many European nations, France was once an empire too, and Macron — just like Sarkozy, if anyone still remembers him — is very much a proponent of the US Empire and its agenda, and hoping for France to play a significant role in it.
By the way, Sarkozy himself has recently been convicted to a prison sentence over fraud. Who'da thunk, right?
Originally posted by Fred Steeves
Taiwan may just be the next sacrificial battering ram. But that's for another time and another place.
Count on it. But it's not the time for that yet. Between sending billions of everybody's Imperial Credits worth of weapons, ammunition and other military equipment to Ukraine for beating Vlad the Impaler on the one hand, and to Israel for exterminating those pesky and inferior Palestinians on the other hand, the entire West — the US Empire included — has already overextended its own capabilities by quite a bit now. That's what happens when people are arrogant: they will always fall flat out on their faces.
So, I could be wrong, but the most likely scenario to me as I see it is that the time would be approaching for the West to either, as Macron suggests, bring the whole of NATO into the war with Russia — and thus take us into a legitimate World War III and a potential nuclear holocaust — or, which I deem more likely, for the West to pull out and leave the Ukrainian sacrificial lamb to die on the altar of hypocrisy, build up enough stock on military equipment again, and then donate that in turn to the Taiwanese sacrificial lamb.
And then in the end, when all is said and done and millions (if not billions) of "impure" souls have been culled manu militari, the Empire and its vassals can begin demanding reimbursement from the two sacrificed nations for its military and logistic aid.
as with many European nations, France was once an empire too, and Macron — just like Sarkozy, if anyone still remembers him — is very much a proponent of the US Empire and its agenda, and hoping for France to play a significant role in it.
You know, me thinks France wants back into the empire game, at least some sort of junior partner sort of status. Remember how they boldly took the lead in NATO's heroic effort in ruining Libya, at the time by far Africa's richest nation? France still had a big stake there left over from the "Scramble For Africa" days, much of it involving the dominance of the Franc there, and Ghadaffi was threatening that dominance by proposing a new African currency with the goal of beginning to lift much of Africa out of still colonial induced poverty.
Can't have that kind of shit going on, and NATO was happy to assist.
Also, he's gotta still be butt hurt over being ejected from Niger. (Chuckling), maybe he can do what Napoleon couldn't to make up for it.
Originally posted by Fred Steeves
Taiwan may just be the next sacrificial battering ram. But that's for another time and another place.
Originally posted by Aragorn
Count on it. But it's not the time for that yet. Between sending billions of everybody's Imperial Credits worth of weapons, ammunition and other military equipment to Ukraine for beating Vlad the Impaler on the one hand, and to Israel for exterminating those pesky and inferior Palestinians on the other hand, the entire West — the US Empire included — has already overextended its own capabilities by quite a bit now. That's what happens when people are arrogant: they will always fall flat out on their faces.
Right. Well October 7 certainly threw a spanner into the works, but "The Indispensable Nation" can handle anything, right?
I have no doubt Rome was this arrogant right before they up and lost the western half of their empire, that'll bring you right back down to earth eh?
So the original plan had the Middle East remaining status quo, the sanctions should cripple Russia, and that plucky army with a lot of good old fashion goose steppers we spent 8 years building up might just deal the final death blow.
Then, that just isolates China to deal with, as we carve up those vast Russian resources like a Christmas goose. But things didn't quite work out that way, did they?
As a matter of fact just about the opposite happened, it all backfired, and rather than these rabid neocons seeing their strangle hold on their unipolar hegemony once again on its way to being re-secured, they suddenly found their cherished empire hanging on by its finger tips, with Russia now stronger and more popular around the world than they ever dreamed possible. Doh!!!
So now the civilized world is dealing with a cornered animal, this is such a dangerous fucking moment. The US could just read the handwriting on the wall and take an important seat at the big table of nations that's now coming into focus; but they just cannot bring themselves to do that. Other great and regional powers see this, and are trying to carefully maneuver through this inevitable process of a fallen empire, as one might deal with an angry lunatic walking down the street.
Very, very, carefully... No sudden movements.
Originally posted by Aragorn
So, I could be wrong, but the most likely scenario to me as I see it is that the time would be approaching for the West to either, as Macron suggests, bring the whole of NATO into the war with Russia — and thus take us into a legitimate World War III and a potential nuclear holocaust — or, which I deem more likely, for the West to pull out and leave the Ukrainian sacrificial lamb to die on the altar of hypocrisy, build up enough stock on military equipment again, and then donate that in turn to the Taiwanese sacrificial lamb.
I so hope that would be the case. Well, I mean not for Ukraine, but by this point they may be fucked no matter what happens. And that shit really fucking pisses me off! Sacrificial nations like they're just spent beer cans...
Under normal circumstances I like to think your scenario would be the likely one, just - leave like they did Afghanistan (and many other failed Projects). But, here's the thing that worries me. Just as "The Unipolar Moment" began for the US around 1990, "The Multi Polar Moment" is happening right now as we speak for the deserving rest of the world besides "The Golden Billion" here in the West. And happening more and more rapidly the more the US tries to stop it.
This is it, there's no second bite at this apple. China is really already too strong, Russia is getting stronger and more influential by the day if these lunatics ever hope to regain that power, it's now or never. I hope that's not the case, but if it is, and there's a decent chance that it is, the question becomes to what lengths will they go in trying to get it back while defying all odds?
Are they willing to go out in the proverbial blaze of glory? Taking everybody else down with them in the process?
You know, me thinks France wants back into the empire game, at least some sort of junior partner sort of status. Remember how they boldly took the lead in NATO's heroic effort in ruining Libya, at the time by far Africa's richest nation? France still had a big stake there left over from the "Scramble For Africa" days, much of it involving the dominance of the Franc there, and Ghadaffi was threatening that dominance by proposing a new African currency with the goal of beginning to lift much of Africa out of still colonial induced poverty.
Can't have that kind of shit going on, and NATO was happy to assist.
Also, he's gotta still be butt hurt over being ejected from Niger. (Chuckling), maybe he can do what Napoleon couldn't to make up for it.
Aye on all of the above. Macron's words are already being criticized over here now as "a huge diplomatic blunder", and The Powers That Be™ here in Europe are already quickly refuting his suggestion.
And yes, it is also being mentioned that France likes to see itself as a military force to be reckoned with — the spirit of the old French imperialism is still alive — and that Macron's words were probably an expression of this old nationalistic spirit for the sake of making his compatriots feel a little better about themselves.
Originally posted by Fred Steeves
Under normal circumstances I like to think your scenario would be the likely one, just - leave like they did Afghanistan (and many other failed Projects). But, here's the thing that worries me. Just as "The Unipolar Moment" began for the US around 1990, "The Multi Polar Moment" is happening right now as we speak for the deserving rest of the world besides "The Golden Billion" here in the West. And happening more and more rapidly the more the US tries to stop it.
This is it, there's no second bite at this apple. China is really already too strong, Russia is getting stronger and more influential by the day if these lunatics ever hope to regain that power, it's now or never. I hope that's not the case, but if it is, and there's a decent chance that it is, the question becomes to what lengths will they go in trying to get it back while defying all odds?
Are they willing to go out in the proverbial blaze of glory? Taking everybody else down with them in the process?
I think (and hope) the mutually-assured destruction scenario will still be enough of a deterrent to want to go there. But at the same time, tension is building rapidly, and somebody here in the West could be losing their cool quite rapidly and set the unthinkable in motion. And if Orange Jesus™ wins the US elections this year, then who knows what might happen. He's not being called Captain Chaos™ for no reason. The man has no sense of responsibility and no political insight whatsoever, in combination with a clinical degree of insanity and a two-digit IQ.
It's all balancing on a knife edge right now, and it could go any possible way, including "Kaboom!"
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Originally posted by Fred Steeves
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