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Thread: World War Three

  1. #121
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Well, I think there's plenty of other possible scenarios besides the aggressive Putin one. Like I wonder how sick and tired he must be of the West constantly inching closer and closer to his actual borders, and from many directions? I wonder how he feels about this ongoing, Nazi like coup in Ukraine backed by the U.S.?

    How might Western leaders feel were the roles reversed? (Hint: Hair on fire.)

    Maybe he does have eyes on taking back Ukraine, from his point of view that wouldn't at all be an evil, warmongering type of interest that the West just loves to portray his every thought and move as. What if he just took back Ukraine and called it a day, then what?

    Or maybe he's just looking for a little respect, flexing a little muscle as if to warn "hey, back the fuck off, you can only push me so far. I can be a force to be reckoned with as well, maybe this will get your attention."

    So yeah. Catastrophism seems to be all in vogue these days, every blip on the world radar screen picked up and run with like the sun may not rise tomorrow. I think it's right up the ally of Western propaganda to give a pass to any and all cases of U.S. aggressions, while screaming bloody murder that the sky is falling whenever an adversary farts too loudly. A bit of exaggeration there, but quite possibly not by all that much.

    Anyway, my 2 cents there. Time always tells of course. But my prediction is no start to WW3 here.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  3. #122
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    Whether Putin is acting defensively, or offensively, is a matter of perspective. But it seems the timing for some kind of action, from a Russian perspective, would be right now. The president is weakened by gridlock and old age and the U.S is embroiled in a domestic cold war between the right and left that could become a hot civil war...and soon. A major war in Europe would certainly be a distraction. It would be funny, in a tragic way, if the tried and true, 'wag the dog' formula of the military industrial complex, made the domestic political situation worse rather than better.

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  5. #123
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Well, I think there's plenty of other possible scenarios besides the aggressive Putin one. Like I wonder how sick and tired he must be of the West constantly inching closer and closer to his actual borders, and from many directions? I wonder how he feels about this ongoing, Nazi like coup in Ukraine backed by the U.S.?

    How might Western leaders feel were the roles reversed? (Hint: Hair on fire.)

    Maybe he does have eyes on taking back Ukraine, from his point of view that wouldn't at all be an evil, warmongering type of interest that the West just loves to portray his every thought and move as. What if he just took back Ukraine and called it a day, then what?

    Or maybe he's just looking for a little respect, flexing a little muscle as if to warn "hey, back the fuck off, you can only push me so far. I can be a force to be reckoned with as well, maybe this will get your attention."

    So yeah. Catastrophism seems to be all in vogue these days, every blip on the world radar screen picked up and run with like the sun may not rise tomorrow. I think it's right up the ally of Western propaganda to give a pass to any and all cases of U.S. aggressions, while screaming bloody murder that the sky is falling whenever an adversary farts too loudly. A bit of exaggeration there, but quite possibly not by all that much.

    Anyway, my 2 cents there. Time always tells of course. But my prediction is no start to WW3 here.
    Just shows you how effective Russian propaganda really is.

    A typical tactic they use is to label any opponent to Russian oppression as Nazi or Fascist. They did that effectively in 2014 as well, even though it was the Russian-backed puppet government and Russian mercenaries that fired into the crowd and killed 50 innocent protesters. These are the so-called "Nazis" that supposedly led a western-led coup.

    What nobody seems to take into account is that the Ukrainians had had enough of being lorded over by the Russians and would much rather become a Western democracy. They rebelled against Russian oppression in 2014 and that's when this whole chain of events was set into motion. Sure, they received Western backing, but the desire to be free is genuine. Keep in mind, Western Ukraine didn't become a part of the Soviet Union until WW2. Before WW1 it was part of Austria-Hungary and it was shared between Czechoslovakia and Poland in the interwar period. The Soviets induced an artificial famine during this period in the part of Ukraine that they controlled, which killed 5 million Ukrainians. Very few people are aware of these facts and are playing into Russia's hands by swallowing the propaganda about Ukrainian nationalists being Nazis. Sure, there are some neo-Nazi factions among the paramilitaries that fought against Russian influence, but that's hardly surprising and they're rather insignificant overall.

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  7. #124
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    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    Well, that's where i beg to differ.

    Little point to that ...
    Tell that to those Submarine Captains (who have sworn to obey their standing orders in such a situation).

    But trying to make any logical sense of such dangerous and volatile scenarios is also of little point here as well.
    I worked with a nuke sub officer, he was a pretty straight guy when it came to discussing secret information. He was a great guy and warned me off about my secret clearance and 'knowing' the rules about even asking. He was a great guy. But he 'scared me' in truth.

    We all have a choice, authoritarianism or sanity. Putin is the center of world uncertainty (and he likes it as any narcissistic wannabe emperor would).

    The U.S. is not vulnerable in this scenario, We are very familiar with World War II. This is lived history for Biden... He won't falter in this scenario and not all of his people are sleepy.

    Something is very very wrong with Tucker Carlson. He thinks other people's lives are a game, in the end he is going to lose it in a very bad way. He may end up in the same hell as Ross Limbo as one of my co-workers used to call him. He loved him.
    Last edited by Chuckie, 25th January 2022 at 12:19.

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  9. #125
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    Some breaking news from UK media. There are intelligence reports out that the invasion of Ukraine might have already begun. There are advance forces behind Ukrainian lines already, preparing the ground for the main invasion. British intelligence believes a lightning strike to take Kyiv is likely, at which point a pre-selected puppet government would be installed and proclaimed to be the official government of Ukraine. Ukrainians themselves are preparing for Guerilla warfare.

    More here:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2000054.html

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  11. #126
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    It's going to get bloody because Ukrainians are more prepared now.

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  13. #127
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Just shows you how effective Russian propaganda really is.

    A typical tactic they use is to label any opponent to Russian oppression as Nazi or Fascist. They did that effectively in 2014 as well, even though it was the Russian-backed puppet government and Russian mercenaries that fired into the crowd and killed 50 innocent protesters.
    Then you must know something I don't, because to the best of my knowledge, they were western mercenaries. There's even a video of an identified Canadian mercenary in Ukraine, telling the person with the camera to "Get outta my face! Get outta my face!"

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    These are the so-called "Nazis" that supposedly led a western-led coup.
    Not "so-called", Chris; they are neo-Nazis. Just ask Malisa, and just ask the Sidinugget about the brownshirts with their Waffen SS logos.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  15. #128
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    Does anyone consider that he/she might be under the influence of 'propaganda'. Lately, I've been doing that a lot. But at the same time, I firmly believe and have long believed that despite all the 'positive' propaganda about Putin he was a disturbed personality. Nothing in the last 5-10 years has happened that makes me think otherwise.

    Consider that in the U.S. the pro-Russian ambiance has been strong since the breakup of the Soviet Union. Yet, here we are, wondering if the world is going back to war. It's crazy. If an individual stokes crazy-making then that individual is HIGHLY suspect.
    Last edited by Chuckie, 25th January 2022 at 13:19.

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  17. #129
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by BeastOfBologna View Post
    Consider that in the U.S. the pro-Russian ambiance has been strong since the breakup of the Soviet Union.
    Yes, and all that progress was wound back again by the George W. Bush administration first ─ with the expansion of NATO and the new east-facing American missile installations in Europe ─ and was then later further destroyed by the Obama administration.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  19. #130
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    Quote Originally posted by BeastOfBologna View Post
    Does anyone consider that he/she might be under the influence of 'propaganda'. Lately, I've been doing that a lot. But at the same time, I firmly believe and have long believed that despite all the 'positive' propaganda about Putin he was a disturbed personality. Nothing in the last 5-10 years has happened that makes me think otherwise.

    Consider that in the U.S. the pro-Russian ambiance has been strong since the breakup of the Soviet Union. Yet, here we are, wondering if the world is going back to war. It's crazy. If an individual stokes crazy-making then that individual is HIGHLY suspect.
    I personally think the entire alternative media space is infested with Russian propaganda, and yes, there are paid trolls and troll farms that do a lot of the work. The end result is that the alternative community has basically adopted a point of view that sympathises with Putin, the Kremlin and Russia's geopolitical goals in general. Even though Russia is clearly the aggressor in this story, I hear a lot of apologetics. Russia has no more right to keep NATO out of its immediate neighbourhood than any other country, these are sovereign states that managed to escape the Prison of Nations after centuries of oppression and genocide. Now Putin wants to put them back into their cage, which is understandable from his perspective, but we at the very least shouldn't cheerlead him or make up excuses as to why it's ok for Russia to act like this, but not others.

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  21. #131
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Russia has no more right to keep NATO out of its immediate neighbourhood than any other country [...]
    True, but neither does NATO have the right to start rattling Russia's cage by putting a missile fence around it.

    Let's face it. The USA started this saber-rattling game with the Russians under Bush Jr., and Obama carried on with it. Putin didn't start this game, but he's not going to have his buttons pushed any longer, which is why he's now preparing to reclaim some territory. If you were in his shoes, you'd do the same.

    This is not about good versus evil. Putin is just as evil as NATO. This is merely the Cold War version 2.0. It's a game of chess, and the players are themselves not even close enough to the trenches to get any blood splatters all over their clothes, let alone spill their own blood.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Yes, and all that progress was wound back again by the George W. Bush administration first ─ with the expansion of NATO and the new east-facing American missile installations in Europe ─ and was then later further destroyed by the Obama administration.
    Good points but perhaps the undercurrents were obvious?

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  25. #133
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    Quote Originally posted by BeastOfBologna View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Yes, and all that progress was wound back again by the George W. Bush administration first ─ with the expansion of NATO and the new east-facing American missile installations in Europe ─ and was then later further destroyed by the Obama administration.
    Good points but perhaps the undercurrents were obvious?
    Yes, it was obvious. Two wars weren't enough yet for Bush Jr. The military-industrial complex needed more action. And the same was true under Obama. It's all about the expansion of the US Empire.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Yes, it was obvious. Two wars weren't enough yet for Bush Jr. The military-industrial complex needed more action. And the same was true under Obama. It's all about the expansion of the US Empire.
    A nuke must have hit somewhere in Texas, my power just went out and worst of all I lost my post.


    I was laughing because that isn't exactly what I meant. Junior was a cold warrior but Obama was an economic warrior which is not surprising given the global economic quagmire that he walked into. Obama's gravest sin was insulting Putin by maintaining that Russia was a minor player.

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    Obama liked to bomb people with those drones.

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