I'm starting to think that people fail to grasp nuance these days. Russia has brought misery and so has USA.
That's apples and oranges there brother. The US pulled off a coup on Russia's southern doorstep, rapidly built up a Nazi riddled army there for the sole purpose of taking on Russia, that same military ignited a civil war by shelling for 8 years areas of the Donbass region that didn't want to go along with this killing 14,000 people in the process, and all the while the US and NATO essentially told Putin to go fuck himself with his security concerns.
There comes a certain point where one can either be compelled to come out swinging, or just keep sitting there as an attack ensues. One doesn't need consider Putin a "good guy", in order to see and understand the position he had been forced into. Under twisted Western logic, Tommy was the "bad guy aggressor", the Gatlin Boys the "good guys" in this old Kenny Rogers classic:
I see that Ukraine is just a pawn in the chessboard,
Then you should also see what Ukraine had been groomed to be, and groomed to do.
Originally posted by Wind
Shouldn't the people have anything to say about being invaded? It's going to cause a reaction naturally.
The people have no say in any of this. A responsible small power government, sharing a border with a great power, does everything within its power to not piss off that great power. The Ukraine government did the exact opposite of that, to the point of bitch slapping that great power neighbor, not a good idea. Although there is that superior Nazi element baked into all of this, so...
But even then, this was called a "Special Military Operation" for a reason. Putin never had any aims of going to all out war with his Slavic brethren, not with less than 200,000 men; the aim was to scare the bejesus out of Kiev to get some cooperation, same as in Georgia, and that was it let's call it a day. With the US and NATO pushing all the chips to the middle of the table, Putin's choice was then to either retreat in the face of an existential threat, or go all in himself.
As usual, this all could have been avoided, Ukraine could have lost a little territory but remained a viable nation. Now? We're very likely witnessing the death of a nation, and the West, the ones Ukraine thought were their friends, will abandon them like a cheap used up whore.
On to Taiwan, if it takes the death of that nation as well to set the Chinese back a bit, well, it sucks to be them says the neocons.
They'll be no neocon tears for anyone in this lunacy. So long as they themselves don't get so much as a scratch, the scope of death and destruction is irrelevant. Russia isn't run by neocons, that's another big difference. That they only go to war when they have to is another.
The people have no say in any of this. A responsible small power government, sharing a border with a great power, does everything within its power to not piss off that great power. The Ukraine government did the exact opposite of that, to the point of bitch slapping that great power neighbor, not a good idea. Although there is that superior Nazi element baked into all of this, so...
And let's not forget that the current Ukrainian government came to power after a western-backed coup, in which the democratically elected (but pro-Russian) president Viktor Yanukovych was ousted. So much for the legitimacy of Volodomir Zelenskyy and his ragtag team of moderates and Nazis.
Originally posted by Fred Steeves
As usual, this all could have been avoided, Ukraine could have lost a little territory but remained a viable nation. Now? We're very likely witnessing the death of a nation, and the West, the ones Ukraine thought were their friends, will abandon them like a cheap used up whore.
That's exactly what I myself am expecting the outcome to be as well, if Putin loses this war. And if he doesn't, then there'll be nothing left of Ukraine anyway. "Aww, such a shame. Now let's go and liberate Taiwan from their dirty communist overlords in Beijing, now that we still have some ammunition left."
So it would be acceptable that Ukraine fell under the invading cruel oppressor and then what?
Shouldn't the people have anything to say about being invaded? It's going to cause a reaction naturally.
I see that Ukraine is just a pawn in the chessboard, but it doesn't mean Putin is a good guy. He's not.
I'm starting to think that people fail to grasp nuance these days. Russia has brought misery and so has USA.
See?
All of this is feelings again.
There's a time and place for that, this isn't it.
What about the people that the Ukrainian government shelled for 8 years before this?
Do they count?