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Thread: World War Three

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Err, no, my government is actually quite pro-Russia, especially now that Biden and the EU are on our ass.
    The point where you feel worried and think about that situation happening, means you can be controlled, regardless of what position your government has about Russia. That's what i meant

    They allow that false crap about what's truly going on, and people believe it, do you see any news from your government telling you it's all fake? Or how did you figure that it's truly about to happen somehow?

    I'm not sure what you mean, but there is a well-documented military buildup around the Ukrainian border, I believe this is real and not one of those WMDs in Iraq kind of hoaxes.
    I have only see the one from Ukraine around Donbas, did you hear that just recently they, once again, shelled villages and killed hundreds of civilians and that they are actually starting to act again the same as in 2014? They hope to run people out of their homes and into Russia or kill them otherwise. But you probably already know that. It's never going to be news on the west, since all/most killed are ethnic Russians

    Yes, they're US intelligence analysts, but that doesn't mean they're wrong,
    Well they for sure keep repeating the same talking points, without ever showing any hard evidence, but the time they did with those pictures showing some tanks and rocket launchers, they had to go around 300 km and into the Belorussian/Russia border to get them, then lied about it being at the border with Ukraine, then from there they just keep talking and talking, but i have not seen any hard evidence like that one time. The drones are not cooperating, neither the satellites?

    They have just kept repeating non stop the same idiotic narrative and talking points, building on it. I supposed that if there were by now 300 thousand soldiers at the Ukraine border, we would be seeing video and pictures, and satellite tracking plus tons of other stuff, since they are at the border... But where is it? They just kept building on the original narrative that even Ukraine at some point had to dismiss before someone called them and told them to toe the line or else

    There's some truth to that, but on the flipside, two parts of the country are now under Russian military occupation. Crimea officially, Novorossiya unofficially. It's not a huge stretch to imagine Putin would want to take the rest, especially since (rump) Ukraine wants to become a Nato member. That might put US troops a few hundred miles from Moscow, an unacceptable situation to the Kremlin, which I can frankly understand.
    The current Ukraine government was put there by a coup, the country that was called/named Ukraine, stopped existing in 2014 after the coup, somehow, after these people stole control of the country, they expect everyone to pretend they are "official". Some regions didn't want to belong anymore.

    If you see this, the same is happening with Taiwan and HongKong, right? Yet there's no "China First" support from the western world, but there is for Ukraine, it's a bit hypocritical, don't you think? Since it's the exact same situation

    Ukraine is a Nazi state, they have Nazi symbols, they kill Russians, they forbid speaking Russian, they have the "night watch" and a list of undesirables that can be killed without repercussions. Who on their right mind would say "I'm a Russian and want to live on Ukraine". Didn't one of the coup leaders just some months ago invited all the people in Donbas to gently get the hell out from their homes and go into Russia, so that Ukrainians could go take over the land?

    That one is completely wrong from my understanding. The official government of China is still the one in Taipei. The one in Beijing is illegitimate, a communist plant. Granted, most countries don't acknowledge this any more, due to the power disparity between Beijing and Taipei, but it may not stay like that forever.
    I thought that's what i said That the official/original/real government is the one on Taiwan, but it had to go there because the US planned and supported a coup that enabled the current fake government to take control of China. So back then, the US took down the real government, put a puppet in place and then officially acknowledged it in front of the world. Now that they see this 'puppet' lost the strings and walks on its own, they suddenly feel the need to talk to the people in Taiwan, the same ones they betrayed way back

    Also, there is the complete absolute lack of will of the Ukrainian government to do anything for real but to kill or make the people in Donbas suffer the most

    They shell the towns, kill people, then claim that because of the violence there, they can't get help or even allow people to come in/out the zone, then the elders there can't get their pension and have nothing to eat, and they have to walk through dangerous territory just to try to get access to food, and then get shelled somewhere around the trip, or mugged or abused because they can't defend themselves. They this is displayed as "poor people, look at them, but this would not be happening if these invaders were not there"

    There are no invaders, the "invaders" are the people of Donbas that don't want to belong to Ukraine. That's why there is such a violent, rabid, nasty war against them

    If someone in Hong Kong fights for their freedom, or in Taiwan, then it's awesome and they must be helped. If someone in Donbas does the same, they must be punished

    Is that the right way to go around this? Anyone can go into Crimea these days, why not go there and ask the people in the streets what they think? Or ask them why Ukraine punished them by closing access to water so there are severe issues with the region? Oh but most people in Crimea consider themselves Russians, there's the problem

    Any country in the world has issues and defects, and governments are no good most of the time. But let's not pretend that what's happening out there is not happening at all. Ukraine is a Nazi state, there is way more than plenty of evidence of it since years and years ago, and the UN and the world knows it, they just pretend they don't because it serves their purposes right now

    They will let another 14,000 die, if it serves the global need of control and power
    Last edited by Malisa, 18th December 2021 at 12:01.

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    Quote Originally posted by BeastOfBologna View Post
    lol ... Air superiority of the U.S. Russia has that one plane that is clearly better than the American models. The air maneuver capability of the older Russian plane is still better than what the U.S. was able to demonstrate.

    In my opinion the one leading hypothesis of the why and what for of the Alien presence is that they are trying to stave off a catastrophic World War Three. The One posted that idea about a year ago and I discounted it. The theory proffered the notion that the Greys are us from the future. That Australian dude who struck me as highly credible says the scuttlebutt is that that in fact is the explanation.

    Current Russian Air and Navy Forces ideology/strategy is: "You don't need wings/ships to follow and take down a bird or sink a ship.. if you can throw a stone fast enough the bird/ship won't be able to skip it"

    Surprisingly enough, it works very very well. Ships are slow and have slow/obsolete defence systems, and birds can only do so much if the rock comes flying at 10 times the speed the bird can maneuver


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    Quote Originally posted by Malisa View Post
    Ukraine is a Nazi state, they have Nazi symbols,
    Exactly, and that is why the USA loves them so much. The USA is itself a crypto-fascist nation, as I've already stated many times, but apparently, nobody wants to take that seriously because of the glamorous image of the USA sold in the media and via Hollywood.





    Source: ratical.org


    The 14 Characteristics of Fascism

    by Lawrence Britt


    Free Inquiry Magazine, 2003


    Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

    The 14 characteristics are:


    01. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

    Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.


    02. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

    Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.


    03. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

    The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists; terrorists; etc.


    04. Supremacy of the Military

    Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.


    05. Rampant Sexism

    The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.


    06. Controlled Mass Media

    Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.


    07. Obsession with National Security

    Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.


    08. Religion and Government are Intertwined

    Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.


    09. Corporate Power is Protected

    The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.


    10. Labor Power is Suppressed

    Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.


    11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

    Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.


    12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment

    Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.


    13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

    Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.


    14. Fraudulent Elections

    Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.


    Copyright © 2003 Free Inquiry magazine
    Reprinted for Fair Use Only.


    Source: ratical.org





    I would very much like to see anyone here make an attempt at refuting that all of the above is applicable to the USA as a nation, and to US American culture itself. Now that should be amusing.

    As for the European Union, it had the potential for overtaking the USA as so-called leader of "the free world", and if so, then "the free world" would have been fraught with the typical bureaucracy that rules and plagues the EU right now, but at least it would have been a far more civilized international landscape, with far fewer wars, and with the EU ordaining sanctions against the USA over its imperialist and militarily aggressive behavior.

    Unfortunately, the EU is so in love with the USA that it already automatically lowers its pants whenever it even thinks the USA would be wanting to fuck.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Lots of good points made by both of you, far too many for me to address all of them, unless we want to collaborate on an actual book...

    As to Aragorn's point regarding the characteristics of fascism and how it applies to the USA, I fully agree. I have made that same point a few times recently.

    However, as to Malisa's assertion that Ukraine would be a Nazi state, I'm not so sure. Certainly, there are neo-Nazi elements near the corridors of power, but I don't believe they actually run the show. It cannot be disputed however, that the US state department engineered a coup there and this is a mortal danger to Russian national security and ethnic minorities living there. The treatment of minorities is the main reason Hungary keeps blocking Ukraine's Nato accession, until they change tact.

    As for this part:

    I thought that's what i said That the official/original/real government is the one on Taiwan, but it had to go there because the US planned and supported a coup that enabled the current fake government to take control of China. So back then, the US took down the real government, put a puppet in place and then officially acknowledged it in front of the world. Now that they see this 'puppet' lost the strings and walks on its own, they suddenly feel the need to talk to the people in Taiwan, the same ones they betrayed way back
    Maybe I misunderstood you, but you seem to have the wrong information on the Chinese civil war. The UK and US supported the nationalists against the communists. I've met a British veteran who fought the Chinese communists on the river Yangtze. They were taking supplies to the nationalists. Then again, during the Korean war, the US and China effectively fought a war against each other, which ended in a stalemate. The US very nearly nuked China. If that war was to be replayed today, I have no doubt the US would lose swiftly and badly.

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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Then again, during the Korean war, the US and China effectively fought a war against each other, which ended in a stalemate. The US very nearly nuked China. If that war was to be replayed today, I have no doubt the US would lose swiftly and badly.
    A similar thing happened with the war in Vietnam. It was a proxy war between the USA and the USSR, for the same reasons as why the USA got involved in the Korean civil war, i.e. the Russians were supporting the communist north, and thus the Americans chose to support the nationalist south. And the Americans did effectively lose that war, which is why Zbigniew Brzezinski likened his Machiavellian engineering of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan to the American defeat in Vietnam.

    It was then also cynically ironic that under G.W. Bush, the USA would itself invade Afghanistan 20 years later, and once again ─ just as in Vietnam, and just as was the case for the Soviets in Afghanistan ─ find themselves in a war they could not win, notwithstanding the asymmetrical nature of the war as provided by the USA's superior military technology.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Lots of good points made by both of you, far too many for me to address all of them, unless we want to collaborate on an actual book...

    As to Aragorn's point regarding the characteristics of fascism and how it applies to the USA, I fully agree. I have made that same point a few times recently.

    However, as to Malisa's assertion that Ukraine would be a Nazi state, I'm not so sure. Certainly, there are neo-Nazi elements near the corridors of power, but I don't believe they actually run the show. It cannot be disputed however, that the US state department engineered a coup there and this is a mortal danger to Russian national security and ethnic minorities living there. The treatment of minorities is the main reason Hungary keeps blocking Ukraine's Nato accession, until they change tact.
    Well actually they (the current government in Ukraine) have a complete battalion named after a German Nazi one, they also allow neo nazi marches. They have made it illegal to speak Russian, both on the street and in shops and media. They say "if someone speaks russia and is not ukranian, they you can speak russian to them". But they have the day and night watch, groups of nazi youth who take care of watching people around

    They also have "the list", in which someone can end up if they somehow, somewhere, look like they support or act 'russian' in any way
    https://www.euronews.com/2019/03/13/...ronews-answers

    This is not news
    https://medium.com/dfrlab/un-calls-f...t-14fec836753f

    Several people have died because of being put on "the list", even one of the founders of that page bragged that around 300 people had being killed so far, and that was years ago

    But again, "not on the news"

    And this is accepted and ignored by the Ukranian "government". After a journalist got killed because he was put on the list, some people were arrested, then the evidence "got lost" and the people involved were released as if nothing had happened, their names cleared
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oles_Buzina

    And that's just one of them because now it does seem that there's a wall of silence. No one speaks about "the list" anymore

    As for this part:

    Maybe I misunderstood you, but you seem to have the wrong information on the Chinese civil war. The UK and US supported the nationalists against the communists. I've met a British veteran who fought the Chinese communists on the river Yangtze. They were taking supplies to the nationalists. Then again, during the Korean war, the US and China effectively fought a war against each other, which ended in a stalemate. The US very nearly nuked China. If that war was to be replayed today, I have no doubt the US would lose swiftly and badly.
    I'm only talking about the specific situation as to how the official government of China ended in Taiwan and how it was lead into that, and then now it's being used as a tool to say "China bad"

    The puppet government placed on China by the US, as i said, lost the strings and started walking on its own. Maybe they played with the Americans so they could get into power, then they turned their backs on them, and whatever agreement they had behind the scenes was thrown into the trash bin. We may never know, but that's a different story by now
    Last edited by Malisa, 18th December 2021 at 12:18.

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
    Reminds me of that thing in USA they call 'lobbyism', which is basically organized corruption, legalized because everyone gets a share, except the people below, they get the bones thrown at them only

    But if you put some rules around it and pretend to care, only the lower decks will have to follow, everyone else on the upper decks just eats the good stuff and throws the bones down to the lesser guys

    lol

    Every single year, the US and Ukraine governments refuse to vote against Nazism, at the UN

    Friday, 17 December 2021 (YJC)_ The United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution condemning Nazism and all forms of racism, despite opposition from the United States and Ukraine.
    https://www.yjc.news/en/news/55077/t...ism-and-racism


    I will never get tired of saying this:
    It's been a very, very veeeeery long time since the US stopped representing the US citizens, and they only do the minimal work to keep themselves in office. Otherwise they work for themselves
    Last edited by Malisa, 18th December 2021 at 13:00.

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    I think i just want to say this

    Imagine the implications, if Russia had shelled Donbas and killed 4000 civilians. Not 4, or 40, or 400, but 4000...

    How would the news would look like these days?

    Has it ever been on the news that 4000 people died since the "official Ukrainian" government took power after the coup? and that most of them were Russian, and that it happened by the non stop shelling from the Ukranian side while attempting to clear the zones?

    If you have some info about that from your side i would be glad to read it

    I have some words to describe that:

    Völkermord
    ludobójstwo
    Genocide
    Cleansing
    Last edited by Malisa, 18th December 2021 at 12:36.

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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    [...]

    I would very much like to see anyone here making an attempt at refuting that all of the above is applicable to the USA as a nation, and to US American culture itself. Now that should be amusing.

    As for the European Union, it had the potential for overtaking the USA as so-called leader of "the free world", and if so, then "the free world" would have been fraught with the typical bureaucracy that rules and plagues the EU right now, but at least it would have been a far more civilized international landscape, with far fewer wars, and with the EU ordaining sanctions against the USA over its imperialist and militarily aggressive behavior.

    Unfortunately, the EU is so in love with the USA that it already automatically lowers its pants whenever it even thinks the USA would be wanting to fuck.
    We have free and fair elections. Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk!

    Quit being such an overt European InterNATIONALIST.
    Last edited by Aragorn, 18th December 2021 at 16:05. Reason: trimmed your quotes, you lazy bum :p

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    I wonder if Putin is just flexing his military strength as a deterrent. I hope it's only that because otherwise there will be plenty of bloodshed and the west won't react too kindly to that, then again there's not much they would do besides giving sanctions. East and West are starting to have "frozen" relationships again instead of just them being cold. Then again, Russia is still different from China even if they are allies. The current government isn't only bad, it's infernal, then again their version of communism has been horrible for a long time now. Xi Jinping seems to be a man on a mission and it might not bode well for the world. North Korea is struggling badly too right now despite the fact that China is helping them. Japan, South Korea and Taiwan are allied with US, despite the cultural differences.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xcvDMDg8TY
    Last edited by Wind, 18th December 2021 at 23:35.

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    I recall bringing up both Brit and Eco. It's just depressing.

    We nearly entered the phase of folks being rounded up, put in camps and.....

    Since the days of Sarah Palin, folks have been talking about 'camps', be they FEMA or whatever. And also 'death panels'. Remember that?

    It's always projection. The folks who spew those fears are projecting what they would do.

    We would likely already have them if our 'dear leader' had been re-elected. As it is, he and his comrades did their best to overturn the election with their multi-step coup.

    Which still unfolds.

    Looks like we're all screwed, whether it's our greedy governments, the climate changing bringing droughts and extreme weather, or the pandemic which will continue to rage as more and more people resist taking protective measures.

    Fun times ahead!

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    Malisa, I don't get your interpretation of Chinese history, is this something they teach in Russian schools?

    You could perhaps say that the Nationalists were western puppets, not too much of a stretch, but the communists? I don't think so.

    Wind, I saw many videos from the South African guy, in my mind he is the best resource on what is actually going on in China. They worry me a lot more than Putin's Potemkin Regime.

    I honestly don't think the Russian government would be crazy enough to risk a war with NATO, in some ways they are very dangerous (Missiles and Nukes), but in other ways, they are a paper tiger, with a tiny economy mostly dependent on exporting raw materials. China is much more of a threat and the Communists there truly worry me.

    The way I think it is likely to play out is like this:

    NATO has already made it clear that they will not defend Ukraine, neither will they give the required guarantees that Ukraine won't join NATO. That gives Putin carte blanche to attack Ukraine, which I think he will early next year, once the ground is frozen and large scale operations can begin. He will probably occupy some choice parts of Ukraine, Novorossiya, a corridor to Crimea, maybe some parts along the Belorussian border, but he will not occupy the whole country, he will leave the EU and NATO to pick up the pieces and stick them with the bill. Ukraine might very well become a failed state at that point and will probably require humanitarian aid and some sort of EU protectorship to keep it running.

    So, this is unlikely to lead to WW3, but the danger of escalation or a miscalculation is always there.

    However, China is a much bigger worry. It has a population and economy nearly ten times that of Russia and a much larger armed forces. As referenced in the video above, they are ultra-nationalistic and genuinely aggressive, ready to go to war at any time. They are just waiting for the right time, when their opponents are at maximum weakness. This may come, when or if the US gets entangled in the Ukrainian war in some manner or perhaps in Iran.

    So, the danger here is that a local conflict might easily escalate into a world-wide war, due to the interconnected alliance structure that currently exists in the world, very much like before the two world wars.

    WW1: Central Powers vs Entente
    WW2: Axis powers vs Allied Powers
    WW3: NATO and allies (Japan, South Korea, Australia, Taiwan, India) vs SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organization) and allies (Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, Pakistan, Serbia).

    It is very easy to see how currently frozen conflicts would be reignited in a wider war pitting giants against each other.

    These are the likely areas of conflict that would Emerge:

    Asia:
    South China Sea and Taiwan, Korea
    Pakistan and China vs India
    Iran vs the US and Israel

    Americas:
    Venezuela and Cuba vs the US and allies (Colombia, etc..) - though this one is unlikely and might only come at the end of a protracted conflict.

    Russia, Belarus and Serbia vs NATO - this one's likely to have multiple fronts along the Russian and Belarussian border, as well as the Balkans.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I recall bringing up both Brit and Eco. It's just depressing.

    We nearly entered the phase of folks being rounded up, put in camps and.....

    Since the days of Sarah Palin, folks have been talking about 'camps', be they FEMA or whatever. And also 'death panels'. Remember that?

    It's always projection. The folks who spew those fears are projecting what they would do.
    Dunning-Kruger never fails.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    We would likely already have them if our 'dear leader' had been re-elected. As it is, he and his comrades did their best to overturn the election with their multi-step coup.
    Oh, but Orange Jesus™ is going to meet Lady Justice one day or the other. According to what I've read the other day, even Fox News would have pleaded with him to stop the siege of the Capitol. And of course, he refused.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Indeed, Aragorn. I haven't updated the Fallout from Coup thread mostly because there's so much coming out. I keep hearing Aianawa's phrase in my head, "it's all coming out".

    Soon...

    As for WWIII, Yikes. I just don't know.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I recall bringing up both Brit and Eco. It's just depressing.

    We nearly entered the phase of folks being rounded up, put in camps and.....

    Since the days of Sarah Palin, folks have been talking about 'camps', be they FEMA or whatever. And also 'death panels'. Remember that?

    It's always projection. The folks who spew those fears are projecting what they would do.

    We would likely already have them if our 'dear leader' had been re-elected. As it is, he and his comrades did their best to overturn the election with their multi-step coup.

    Which still unfolds.

    Looks like we're all screwed, whether it's our greedy governments, the climate changing bringing droughts and extreme weather, or the pandemic which will continue to rage as more and more people resist taking protective measures.

    Fun times ahead!
    I agree DT, ... this is just nuke rattling ... we can hope that only the most insane (and they are limited in numbers) truly want to destroy the world.

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