World War Three

[Emil El Zapato]

The false-flag planters-in-chief are accusing Russia of planning a false flag operation to justify the invasion of Ukraine.

read://https_www.independent.co.uk/?...-b2007205.html

On the other hand, US is no longer calling the Russian invasion of Ukraine "imminent", so what gives.

If you ask me, we are down to playground level politics at this point.

If there was to be an invasion, after the Beijing Olympics (again ?!?) would be the best time for it.

The Hungarian mini-Putin has concluded his visit to Moscow, where he was rewarded with a further 1 billion cm of cheap Russian gas annually. Putin used the opportunity to grandstand as a friend of the EU and NATO (since Hungary is a member of both), that is being unfairly maligned and baselessly accused of aggression. In a few weeks, we will know what's what.

With any amount of luck, the saber-rattling got a nick too close to the skin. I wondered about the false flag thingy... hard to tell what's what.

[Emil El Zapato]

With any amount of luck, the saber-rattling got a nick too close to the skin. I wondered about the false flag thingy... hard to tell what's what.

I watched the state department guy answer the question from an Associated Press reporter, Matt Lee. My takeaway was that it surely was a disinformation ploy. The false flag gambit has probably been used before, so 'they' wanted to forestall an attempt by Russia to use it again or to even consider it. Bear in mind, that disinformation was an attempt to 'stop' open warfare.

[Wind]

Here's an interesting statement from Russia's liberal intelligentsia. Try to guess how Kreml's propaganda machine reacted to it.

Peace proponents' statement against the War Party in the Russian leadership

The flow of alarming information about a possible Russian invasion of Ukraine is intensifying. There are reports of intensive recruitment of mercenaries in Russia and the transfer of fuel and military equipment to the territory of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine. In response, Ukraine is intensively arming, NATO is sending additional forces to Eastern Europe. The tension does not subside, but on the contrary, it only grows.

Citizens of Russia are actually becoming hostages of criminal adventurism, which is turning Russia's foreign policy line. They not only live in uncertainty - whether a big war will begin, but also observe a sharp rise in prices and a fall in the national currency. Do Russians need such a policy? Do they want war, and are they ready to bear its burden? Did they give the authorities the right to play such a game with their destinies?

But no one asks the citizens of Russia. There is no public discussion. Only one point of view is presented on state television, and that is the point of view of the supporters of the war. Direct military threats are heard from there, aggression and hatred towards Ukraine, America and Western countries are exuded. But the most dangerous thing is that the war is presented as an acceptable and inevitable course of events. People are trying to deceive, corrupt, impose on them the idea of ​​a holy war with the West instead of developing the country and raising the standard of living of its citizens. The question of price is not discussed, but it is ordinary people who will have to pay this price - a huge and bloody price.

We, responsible citizens of Russia and patriots of our country, appeal to the political leadership of Russia, and throw down an open and public challenge to the War Party, which has been formed within the government.

We express the point of view of that part of Russian society that hates war and considers even the use of a military threat and criminal style in foreign policy rhetoric a crime.

We hate war, and you think it is acceptable. We stand up for peace and prosperity for all citizens of Russia, and you put their lives and destinies on the line in your political game. You are deceiving and using people, and we are telling them the truth. We are speaking on behalf of Russia, and not you, because the peoples of Russia, having lost millions of people in the wars of the past, for many decades live by the proverb "if only there was no war." Have you forgotten about it?

Our position is extremely simple: Russia does not need a war with Ukraine and the West. Nobody threatens us, nobody attacks us. A policy based on promoting the idea of ​​such a war is immoral, irresponsible and criminal, and cannot be carried out on behalf of the peoples of Russia. Such a war can have neither legitimate nor moral goals. The diplomacy of the country cannot take any other position than the categorical rejection of such a war.

The war not only does not correspond to the interests of Russia, but also carries a threat to its very existence. The insane actions of the political leadership of the country, pushing us to this point, will inevitably lead to the formation of a mass anti-war movement in Russia. Each of us naturally becomes a part of it.

We will do everything possible to prevent, and if necessary, stop the war.

[Emil El Zapato]

Here's an interesting statement from Russia's liberal intelligentsia. Try guessing how Kreml's propaganda machine reacted to it.

Production is likely on Putin's word going up in the poison factories.

Ouch, that's harsh. Incidentally, whenever I comment about Russia, I mean specifically Putin. I've worked with many Russians and they are like anyone else ... Jolly fellows and gals. I was in lust with a Russian mission controller once upon a time ...

[Wind]

Production is likely on Putin's word going up in the poison factories.

Didn't you hear that windows are "in fashion" these days in Russia? I don't mean the OS.

[Emil El Zapato]

yeeouch!

[Wind]

yeeouch!

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6LZlhJf54Q

[Emil El Zapato]

Family Guy

lol, that was great ...

[Aragorn]

Did you happen to catch what Steve Judd said about the possible timing of the attack, Aragorn?

Gosh, I may have, but I don't remember. I was listening and doing other stuff at the same time.

[Wind]

Gosh, I may have, but I don't remember. I was listening and doing other stuff at the same time.

It was the forecast for February where he said that astrologically speaking this is the most intense time of the year and if Russia were to launch an invasion then it would probably happen before mid February. After that the intensity of these times will start to dissipate even though March might have some surprises in store too.

[Chris]

So, my views on the likelihood and the background of the likely Ukraine-Russia war have shifted somewhat these past few days.

What made me change my mind was watching the shirtless one pose and preen with various world leaders just soaking up the attention, like a rotten kid or the schoolyard bully, who is clearly just thirsting for attention.

I'm starting to think that Putin never really intended to invade the Ukraine, but has gotten himself into a situation, where he is finding it impossible to de-escalate without losing face. He wanted all that attention and for Russia to be taken seriously again on the world stage, but his posturing has only backfired on him. NATO has really pulled together against him and its expansion now looks like a real certainty, with the likes of Sweden and Finland reportedly wanting to join and Ukraine and Georgia already being on its doorstep.

So, the question now is this: Can he de-escalate without losing face, or will he actually be forced into some sort of military action due to circumstances out of his control and accidentally start a war?

I think Putin doesn't actually want a war with a West, he just wants Russia to be respected and left alone, but he might still get a war, without him really intending it. Kinda like how Hitler really didn't want to go to war with Britain and the US, but ultimately had no choice in the matter. On the other hand, I still think that China does want a war with the West, at least to the extent of taking Taiwan back and removing US bases from China's immediate neighbourhood. It simply cannot be a strategic superpower without access to the world oceans and its own blue water navy. The US stands in the way of that.

The interplay, of what China wants and how Putin's bumbling and mishandling of the Ukraine crisis could play into their hands is the big open question here. I noticed that China and Russia are again making big noises about the closeness of their alliance, their friendship and all that.

So, we still don't know what's going to happen, neither does Putin, but we might still get a war that nobody actually wants, which is not uncommon in history.

[Dreamtimer]

We certainly had a 'look, shiny!' thing going on and then we took out the leader of ISIS. You may be right, Chris. Putin may really want Ukraine, I have no doubt, but he likely wants war less.

China will continue to position itself to take Taiwan, and build it's silk road, and try to hack us and mess up our systems, and on and on.

[Wind]

So, the question now is this: Can he de-escalate without losing face, or will he actually be forced into some sort of military action due to circumstances out of his control and accidentally start a war?

I think Putin doesn't actually want a war with a West, he just wants Russia to be respected and left alone, but he might still get a war, without him really intending it. Kinda like how Hitler really didn't want to go to war with Britain and the US, but ultimately had no choice in the matter.

Putin is a smart man, he isn't stupid. I think he is still considering his options. He doesn't want to lose either.

On the other hand, I still think that China does want a war with the West, at least to the extent of taking Taiwan back and removing US bases from China's immediate neighbourhood. It simply cannot be a strategic superpower without access to the world oceans and its own blue water navy. The US stands in the way of that.

But why get into war with West if they can buy West? The biggest downfall of West is it's corruption and it's unregulated capitalism.

So, we still don't know what's going to happen, neither does Putin, but we might still get a war that nobody actually wants, which is not uncommon in history.

If you read history then you'll see that there were precursors to both world wars and many things were boiling under the surface, there were just some catalysts which in turn created certain chain reactions. Such as the the assassination of Austrian archduke Franz Ferdinand and of course it was the beginning of the end when Hitler invaded Poland. Of course you could say that WWII was a direct cause of WWI because so many things were left unfinished and some unpleasant things were born after it. Hitler was "created" in the trenches of WWI too even though the origins of his madness started in his childhood too. Did you know by the way that Hitler served in France and Belgium in the Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment 16 during WWI?

The thing about wars and especially world wars is that there really are no winners, even though we like to remember how USA and the Soviets saved the world from Nazis. There is no doubt that the Nazis were a force of evil in human form, but after that the world was divided and it wasn't good either. The peace which came was artificial at best and there was always the looming threat of nuclear warfare. At least until recent decades. Nuclear weapons changed the course of world-wide warfare forever.

[Fred Steeves]

I'm starting to think that Putin never really intended to invade the Ukraine, but has gotten himself into a situation, where he is finding it impossible to de-escalate without losing face. He wanted all that attention and for Russia to be taken seriously again on the world stage, but his posturing has only backfired on him.

I still do think it's possible he wants Ukraine back, or at least a good chunk of it. And from his perspective why wouldn't he? It's human nature to want back what has been lost after all, same as Hitler wanting back what had been lost through the Treaty of Versailles.

I can fully envision how an American leader might look at a state that had been lost, let's say the peninsula portion of Florida for instance, and be thinking "I'd sure like to have you back in the fold again". They would surely want some of that lost prestige back as well. Even if actually taking back the prize might ultimately prove too costly to be worth it, a display of military power might still be in the offing in order to remind the "offenders" that you're still a force to be reckoned with.

I think Putin doesn't actually want a war with a West, he just wants Russia to be respected and left alone, but he might still get a war, without him really intending it. Kinda like how Hitler really didn't want to go to war with Britain and the US, but ultimately had no choice in the matter.

No he doesn't actually want a war with a West, but certainly he wants to be respected and left alone, we all do. You know truthfully Chris? I think Putin is smarter than Hitler was. I'll bet he has a very good sense of knowing when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em so to speak, a very good idea of just what his capabilities really are, and a bluff would not be an empty bluff.

On the other hand, I still think that China does want a war with the West, at least to the extent of taking Taiwan back and removing US bases from China's immediate neighbourhood. It simply cannot be a strategic superpower without access to the world oceans and its own blue water navy. The US stands in the way of that.

But why get into war with West if they can buy West? The biggest downfall of West is it's corruption and it's unregulated capitalism.

Yes, I think that is a much more likely. There's more than one way to make a dog bark.

I can't help but keep noticing how odd it seems, this constant barrage of "Russia wants war/China wants war", when all along it's the 900 and some U.S. military bases all around the world, with many up them right up close and personal to these two countries. Like I can see them saying "FFS can you give me just a bit of breathing room?"

The U.S. trampled all over Iraq and Libya, and still has it's boot on Syria's throat as they continue to jack their oil, but it's these other two that countries that are the aggressors and want blood? I think not.

The thing about wars and especially world wars is that there really are no winners, even though we like to remember how USA and the Soviets saved the world from Nazis.

The way I've come to view the two world wars over the years, is not who the good guys and the bad guys are because that's entirely subjective. What I see is some major nations that had varying and/or conflicting interests. And who was really in charge of these nations? Was it the leaders we see in the old newsreels, or were they more the major pieces being moved about the chess board?

So the Nazis were evil, right? Well, yes, they did some horrific things for sure. And the U.S. was the knight in shining armor come to save the day we're repeatedly told. Here's how I look at that one. When Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, it had only been 49 years since the "Wounded Knee Massacre" in 1890 that finally brought on the bitter end of that terrible genocide. That's a mighty fast remaking of an image. Public Relations is not a new thing!

The world will never be allowed to forget atrocities committed the Russians, Germans and Japanese; but U.S. atrocities (Hiroshima and Nagasaki anyone?) is never a part of that conversation. For that matter, imagine if a guy named Stalin or Hitler had been overseer of the "Wounded Knee Massacre" and all that entailed. Hell, we'd still not be hearing the end of it...

[Emil El Zapato]

The world will never be allowed to forget atrocities committed the Russians, Germans and Japanese; but U.S. atrocities (Hiroshima and Nagasaki anyone?) is never a part of that conversation. For that matter, imagine if a guy named Stalin or Hitler had been overseer of the "Wounded Knee Massacre" and all that entailed. Hell, we'd still not be hearing the end of it...

One might talk to the Japanese about that one. In the West, the Westerners want to be canonized as Saints, In the East, the Easterners want to be seen as Samurais and Ninjas, and the occasional Bodhisattva and lama.