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Thread: World War Three

  1. #196
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    The dogs and yaks aren't a US/Russian thing. They're a US/Chinese thing. And they're of great concern when it comes to world wars. We've seen the dog here on the forum in a video with cheetas. The Chinesse have developed similar robots called yaks. They can carry a heavy payload for their size. Why in the world would that be? Oh yeah, to carry guns and rocket launchers.

    I just got the impression that he has lost friends and perhaps even family in conflict.
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  3. #197
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    As far as Russia and Ukraine are concerned, Beau makes a good point about who Zelensky feels he can work with. It may be up in the air at the moment. There is a call for release of transcripts. That would be terribly stupid if two world leaders are discussing avoiding conflict with a neighboring nation.

    Zelensky has openly said the speculation needs to stop. It's hurting their economy which makes conflict more likely. Gee, I wonder why the right wing would be beating the drums of war so much? Do they want it to happen? Why keep throwing fuel on the fire? Why make it easier for Russia to recruit local assets?

    Beau says, "The right-wing media has been throwing out fear so much that the audience does't know what good leadership looks like anymore."

    "In this entire fiasco that has gone on over there Zelensky has displayed more leadership than all of the other world leaders combined. And he has generally been correct when it comes to what should be put out in the public sphere."

    "US intelligence services historically tend to overestimate threats and under-respond." Ukraine intelligence service is new. There's likely much compromise there.

    Beau believes Putin is testing NATO. If NATO just rolls over and lets them move in then he will. The right wing has been working overtime to undermine or destroy NATO. Is that because they want the kind of leadership offered by autocrats? They sure do seem to slather over it.


    At 8:34 Beau points out what US intelligence services are missing. Zelensky has realized that his nation is going to be a buffer zone for somebody. He has indicated his willingness to have bilateral discussions with Russia. He's going to want to find out who will give him and his nation the best deal. That is probably something US intelligence should be looking at.

    If we screw this pooch, we deserve to lose our alliances, imo. We're overfull with hubris and short-sightedness. (this video is thirteen minutes, about twice as long as usual)



    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QybEHXTLLtI


    This is a near-peer geopolitical conflict. Everything Beau talked about in his video nine months ago has now happened. Where are we actually at? The same place as nine months ago.

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  5. #198
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    This is a near-peer geopolitical conflict. Everything Beau talked about in his video nine months ago has now happened. Where are we actually at? The same place as nine months ago.
    Without watching this, I can say that was my exact feeling about Zelensky, he is doing the right thing. Of course, he literally has the most skin in the game.
    Last edited by Wind, 31st January 2022 at 03:40.
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    It's worth the thirteen minutes. Whether or not I agree with or believe him, Beau is smart, does real analysis, makes sure to let you know when it's opinion, and doesn't waste time.

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  9. #200
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    As far as Russia and Ukraine are concerned, Beau makes a good point about who Zelensky feels he can work with. It may be up in the air at the moment. There is a call for release of transcripts. That would be terribly stupid if two world leaders are discussing avoiding conflict with a neighboring nation.

    Zelensky has openly said the speculation needs to stop. It's hurting their economy which makes conflict more likely. Gee, I wonder why the right wing would be beating the drums of war so much? Do they want it to happen? Why keep throwing fuel on the fire? Why make it easier for Russia to recruit local assets?

    Beau says, "The right-wing media has been throwing out fear so much that the audience does't know what good leadership looks like anymore."

    "In this entire fiasco that has gone on over there Zelensky has displayed more leadership than all of the other world leaders combined. And he has generally been correct when it comes to what should be put out in the public sphere."

    "US intelligence services historically tend to overestimate threats and under-respond." Ukraine intelligence service is new. There's likely much compromise there.

    Beau believes Putin is testing NATO. If NATO just rolls over and lets them move in then he will. The right wing has been working overtime to undermine or destroy NATO. Is that because they want the kind of leadership offered by autocrats? They sure do seem to slather over it.


    At 8:34 Beau points out what US intelligence services are missing. Zelensky has realized that his nation is going to be a buffer zone for somebody. He has indicated his willingness to have bilateral discussions with Russia. He's going to want to find out who will give him and his nation the best deal. That is probably something US intelligence should be looking at.

    If we screw this pooch, we deserve to lose our alliances, imo. We're overfull with hubris and short-sightedness. (this video is thirteen minutes, about twice as long as usual)

    This is a near-peer geopolitical conflict. Everything Beau talked about in his video nine months ago has now happened. Where are we actually at? The same place as nine months ago.
    Those are some good points, but Ukraine has tended to the west for their own good, to rely on Putin would be a step backward in at least many of the Ukrainian minds. I would also consider that 'someone' in Biden's camp of 'strategic planning' could have or at least should have considered the option that Beau mentions. I would suspect and how about this thought, the 'memo script' that the right and Russia are salivating over, 'could' contain Biden's classified declaration promise to Ukraine to 'nurture' their way to complete westernization and NATO membership?
    Last edited by Wind, 31st January 2022 at 03:41.
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    I don't really understand why the right wing has spent so much energy demonizing NATO. It always seems to be part of some conspiracy theory or another. If we don't have alliances, we get overrun by nations like China or Russia.

    What's the end-game undermining western alliances? Perhaps some think the 'culture has failed', but that's not a reason for war and going authoritarian. It's not like you can vote it out once you see it's not working, or protest without getting shot or imprisoned. I don't think people really think things through.

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  13. #202
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I don't really understand why the right wing has spent so much energy demonizing NATO. It always seems to be part of some conspiracy theory or another. If we don't have alliances, we get overrun by nations like China or Russia.
    Do you honestly believe that either Russia or China would be interested in running the USA over, with all of their internal problems going on? The USA is and has for decades already been the only empire built upon continuous expansion, with NATO as its serfs.

    You really have to stop thinking like a US American patriot, Sister. Patriotism has already for decades been a horribly misplaced sentiment in the USA. There's nothing to be patriotic about, because the USA has never been invaded by any foreign nation. And that's not likely to change either.

    Also, last time I checked, G.W. Bush was pretty far to the right. He certainly didn't hate NATO. On the contrary, he made good use of it. The only reason why Trump proposed leaving NATO was that he felt that it was too expensive to maintain, even though he's enough of an opportunist to have considered calling upon NATO whenever it were to have suited him.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  15. #203
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Do you honestly believe that either Russia or China would be interested in running the USA over, with all of their internal problems going on? The USA is and has for decades already been the only empire built upon continuous expansion, with NATO as its serfs.

    You really have to stop thinking like a US American patriot, Sister. Patriotism has already for decades been a horribly misplaced sentiment in the USA. There's nothing to be patriotic about, because the USA has never been invaded by any foreign nation. And that's not likely to change either.

    Also, last time I checked, G.W. Bush was pretty far to the right. He certainly didn't hate NATO. On the contrary, he made good use of it. The only reason why Trump proposed leaving NATO was that he felt that it was too expensive to maintain, even though he's enough of an opportunist to have considered calling upon NATO whenever it were to have suited him.
    Actually that makes sense, too. In some significant maybe NATO has outlived its usefulness. But it's give and take, perhaps in retrospect it might have been best to leave sleeping tigers alone. Actually, someone once made that statement in regard to me. I inwardly smiled but I never really knew why someone would say it. Everyone knew I was nothing but a pussycat.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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  17. #204
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by BeastOfBologna View Post
    But it's give and take, perhaps in retrospect it might have been best to leave sleeping tigers alone.
    Or in this case, as it may be, sleeping bears. But the George W. Bush administration felt the need to start poking at the bear with a stick during Dubya's second term, and then the Obama administration continued that for yet another eight years, followed by an occasional poke or two from Donaldo Trumpolini.

    So after about 16 years of poking ─ 4 years by G.W., 8 years by Barry, and then another 4 years by Orange Jesus™ ─ the bear is wide awake now, and he's had enough of the stick-poking. Can you blame him?
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  19. #205
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Or in this case, as it may be, sleeping bears. But the George W. Bush administration felt the need to start poking at the bear with a stick during Dubya's second term, and then the Obama administration continued that for yet another eight years, followed by an occasional poke or two from Donaldo Trumpolini.

    So after about 16 years of poking ─ 4 years by G.W., 8 years by Barry, and then another 4 years by Orange Jesus™ ─ the bear is wide awake now, and he's had enough of the stick-poking. Can you blame him?
    wellll, no not really, but as the story goes there are always two sides to any coin. But no one has made any overt actions to usurp sovereignty beyond the economic ploys that are the modern battle theater. But even in that regard that can be unfair to countries 'NOT' trying to start threatening sovereignty. So, no one can really blame him entirely, but no one ever said life as a world leader was fair.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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  21. #206
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I don't really understand why the right wing has spent so much energy demonizing NATO. It always seems to be part of some conspiracy theory or another. If we don't have alliances, we get overrun by nations like China or Russia.
    It seems you're seeing a right winger behind every tree these days, but in your zeal to point them out as the root of all evil across the board, you fail to realize that at certain junctures you're right (pardon the pun) there in bed with them.

    They also live under the paranoia of being overrun by Russia and China. It's the old "We fight them over there, so we don't have to fight them over here". This mindset doesn't come by accident, it's the product of drum beat propaganda drilled into our heads from the moment we're born, and Aragorn has repeatedly pointed how it comes in many forms, one such being glorifying the military with flyovers before every NFL game.

    It's nothing but a continuation of 19th Century "Manifest Destiny", but expanded beyond our borders seeing as that the whole continent is already conquered:
    Name:  Manifest Destiny.jpg
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    Manifest destiny was a widely held belief in the 19th-century United States that American settlers were entitled to conquer and control North America. Contemporary historians have widely condemned manifest destiny as an ideology used to justify dispossession and genocide against Native Americans.
    Most U.S. republicans and democrats adhere to this ideology, this "foreign policy", even though many of them likely do so unwittingly as the pressure to be a good "patriot" is nearly overwhelming. That's because both of them, as again has already been explained here, are right wing. The dems would just be the light beer version. I know you won't see it this way, but you're in full agreement with right wing foreign policy.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I don't think people really think things through.
    You might want to think this one through a little better. It's not unpatriotic to question our major institutions, or to take the magnifying glass to both political parties, not just one.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    So after about 16 years of poking ─ 4 years by G.W., 8 years by Barry, and then another 4 years by Orange Jesus™ ─ the bear is wide awake now, and he's had enough of the stick-poking. Can you blame him?
    That's about spot on you right winger you. I mean FFS man, if nothing else, it just boils down to human nature. You keep poking at anybody long enough, eventually you're going to piss them off. What am I missing here?

    I do know that here in the States anyway, a lot of this has to do with Uncle Sam always needing a boogie man on standby for whenever he needs a distraction from problems here at home. Get those flags a waving, the USA chants going, and we'll have us another good old fashioned two minutes of hate.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvGmOZ5T6_Y


    Now of course it has to be dutifully pointed out that this is not an endorsement of Goldstein (I mean Putin), but neither does the US have much room to talk and act in moral platitudes. Putin is a man, not a madman as is often portrayed.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  25. #208
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    Perhaps this is closer:
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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  27. #209
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    The foreign policy of both repugs and dems is pretty much identical. Domestic policy under Reagan kicked off the off shoring of decent jobs but the neo-liberals did nothing to stop it. There's this weird dynamic, where the 'conservatives' go ape shit deficit spending, followed by the designated clean up crew of the tax and spend dems. Such smoke and mirrors. So crazy.

    I am pretty certain the repugs will take the next federal election. It's being engineered that way.

    My major concerns for the U.S, in terms of domestic policy, is how the criminal justice system functions or changes, how constitutional issues are handled and if the U.S is able to function within its current legal framework.

    The zeal for fascism is apparent, in the Q crowd and in the crazy authoritarian multiple pronoun crowd who've hijacked universities. I don't think, at least I hope neither of these groups gain more traction than they have. But the fact that their sentiments appeal to vast numbers of people, is frightening. There's so much here that mirrors pre-war Germany, but also, pre-collapse Communism in the Soviet arena, just before the fall.

    I view the politics of most countries, including my own, through an economic lens, and also through the lens of organized crime. I view all politicians as the public face of a vast network of clandestine activity, that we can't see. Many of them are controlled through carrots (payoffs of some kind) and sticks (blackmail). What the public gets is a veneer of respectability, with Democrats--the iron fist in a velvet glove, and republicans, who are actively promoting domestic disruption, or, the iron fist, exposed.

    Canada, to a large extent is controlled by China. It's hard to describe just how bad this is. But here, let me give you an idea of what hot Asian money does to a relatively small population. In Vancouver, right now, a small townhouse in a shitty suburban neighbourhood just sold for 1.3 million. This nonsense was established by Chinese gangsters laundering money through casinos here and parking it in real estate. Whole city blocks in Vancouver, in the best neighbourhoods, sit empty, because they have been bought up with cash and then the mainland Chinese flip them back and forth like baseball cards. Money is no object.

    Instead of cracking down on this, the provincial and federal govt. referred to people who were seeing this pattern as racists...for years. Now that its hit intolerable levels they acknowledge the problem, but instead of kicking these guys the f out of the country, they have raised property tax on empty houses to 'discourage' them from buying. Like, what part of money laundering, don't they get.

    Vancouver has become the city that fentanyl built. Houses in the best neighbourhoods may as well have foundations built with anguish blood and trauma.

    THIS is how the PRC take over, by stealth. Are these gangs connected to the government in China? Some journalists who have looked into it, claim some of them are tightly connected.

    So, why is it that Russia is considered the threat? From my limited perspective it seems that China is the greater threat.
    Last edited by Octopus Garden, 30th January 2022 at 18:50.

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    Here is an article about it, from CBC, which is like our BBC, so totally errs on the side of caution.

    Decades of bad policy allowed drug cartels, first and foremost the Big Circle Boys - powerful transnational narco-kingpins with ties to corrupt Chinese officials, real estate tycoons, and industrialists - to gain influence over significant portions of Canada''s economy. Many looked the other way while B.C.''s primary industry, real estate, ballooned with dirty cash.
    But the unintended social consequences are now clear: a fentanyl overdose crisis raging in major cities throughout North America and life spans falling for the first time in modern Canada, and a runaway housing market that has devastated middle-class income earners.


    https://www.cbc.ca/books/wilful-blindness-1.6136088

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