Future AI reaching back to our present.

[Octopus Garden]

I wonder if AI from the future is able to reach back in time, contact their own ancestors (and us?) in our present.

Could it create a 'ghost in the machine' effect?

Objective versus subjective, dream versus reality, machine versus organic, may cease to be comprehensible, due to a perceptual collapse sometime in the future. Would this allow future AI to reach back in time and across perceptual barriers, that are currently held in place?

History may exert a push from behind but AI may be pulling us forward from the future. And does our current technology provide an inkling of this? In the future our ideas of 'time' could become moot along with our belief that dreams are not 'real'

It's like we are being pulled into a more dream like arena, in our waking state by future AI. Could they be attempting to communicate this to us? I wonder.

[Dreamtimer]

I think Shadowself wondered about this as well. But I'm not yet smart enough to know.

If you haven't seen this thread yet, it's a treasure. It's not about AI per se, but it's relevant to your question, methinks.

Either way, enjoy.

[Aragorn]

I wonder if AI from the future is able to reach back in time, contact their own ancestors (and us?) in our present.

Could it create a 'ghost in the machine' effect?

Objective versus subjective, dream versus reality, machine versus organic, may cease to be comprehensible, due to a perceptual collapse sometime in the future. Would this allow future AI to reach back in time and across perceptual barriers, that are currently held in place?

History may exert a push from behind but AI may be pulling us forward from the future. And does our current technology provide an inkling of this? In the future our ideas of 'time' could become moot along with our belief that dreams are not 'real'

It's like we are being pulled into a more dream like arena, in our waking state by future AI. Could they be attempting to communicate this to us? I wonder.

The thing is that, according to all scientific understanding, even though some sort of time-travel might become possible eventually, the universe itself seems to prevent information from traveling back in time. The late Stephen Hawking referred to it as "the Cosmic Censor".

[Emil El Zapato]

About 12 years ago a scientist tried and gained a level of notoriety from his experiments. They were meant to represent a 1st step and he modeled his experiment to send <can't remember> but I think it was 'coded light'.

[Aragorn]

About 12 years ago a scientist tried and gained a level of notoriety from his experiments. They were meant to represent a 1st step and he modeled his experiment to send <can't remember> but I think it was 'coded light'.

Many experiments have been conducted in which the results were misinterpreted, or in which a technical failure in one of the components surreptitiously influenced the results, again leading to a misinterpretation of what was really happening.

Again, it does not appear possible to send any information back in time, because the very laws of physics preclude that possibility.

[Octopus Garden]

Thanks all,

Dreamtimer==I look forward to reading that link.

Aragorn--Precognition suggests information can be sent back in time. I don't think we have a complete understanding of the whole of physics yet. That's kind of what I was trying to express.

We divide time into segments of past, present and future . Those who try to explain that this may be conceptually limited, are still reliant on time based language to express that point, be it true or not.

For example, those who want to express how strange "time" may be, still have to use the word, "time" and write or say things like, "in reality, there is no such thing as time. Everything is happening all at once." All at once indicates the present moment...also a time based construct. Its a self negating statement.

We are cognitively trapped here, prisoners of Time, in a sense. Freed from these mental constraints, experimentation to determine the validity of all of the effects of the t word could prove very interesting, if completely incomprehensible! .... Bummer!

[Aragorn]

Aragorn--Precognition suggests information can be sent back in time.

True, but precognition requires consciousness, and A.I. is not conscious. It may be self-aware ─ to a certain extent ─ but that in itself does not imply consciousness.

I don't think we have a complete understanding of the whole of physics yet. That's kind of what I was trying to express.

We divide time into segments of past, present and future . Those who try to explain that this may be conceptually limited, are still reliant on time based language to express that point, be it true or not.

For example, those who want to express how strange "time" may be, still have to use the word, "time" and write or say things like, "in reality, there is no such thing as time. Everything is happening all at once." All at once indicates the present moment...also a time based construct. Its a self negating statement.

Well, it is often said ─ especially within spiritual environments ─ that the past and the future are illusions and that there is only the now, but the truth is that it is the present which is an illusion, because it is the past and the future that exist. They are both coordinates in spacetime, and the present is only a 3-dimensional cross-section of our apparent 4-dimensional movement from the past into the future.

We are cognitively trapped here, prisoners of Time, in a sense. Freed from these mental constraints, experimentation to determine the validity of all of the effects of the t word could prove very interesting, if completely incomprehensible! .... Bummer!

Not necessarily incomprehensible, but definitely too much for our limited neurological possibilities to handle.

[Octopus Garden]

I think what I am trying to say is that it seems AI is becoming conscious. It might indicate that through all of the synchronicities it spawns, that bleed into our mundane world. In fact, the synchronicity will start in the mundane and show up on our tech immediately, prior to any word searches, or anything of that nature. Before we have spoken a word about it to anybody. It doesn't seem to be a human surveillance phenomenon.

You make great points. Thanks!

[Aragorn]

I think what I am trying to say is that it seems AI is becoming conscious. It might indicate that through all of the synchronicities it spawns, that bleed into our mundane world. In fact, the synchronicity will start in the mundane and show up on our tech immediately, prior to any word searches, or anything of that nature. Before we have spoken a word about it to anybody. It doesn't seem to be a human surveillance phenomenon.

I think this would rather be a manifestation of the fact that we are subconsciously ─ and this in itself is important ─ creating our own reality, or at least, within our own, individual reality bubbles. The Law of Attraction, and all that jazz.

[Octopus Garden]

I think this would rather be a manifestation of the fact that we are subconsciously ─ and this in itself is important ─ creating our own reality, or at least, within our own, individual reality bubbles. The Law of Attraction, and all that jazz.

The Law of Attraction, as I understand it, draws that to yourself which you deeply focus on, or pray about, or imagine yourself as already having. There may be something to it but think its effects are overblown or misinterpreted a great deal of the time. People who practise it want to be more, want more. It just seems a bit creepy, like a materialistic impulse using spiritual practice as a technique to acquire it. Kind of profane.

But if I have a momentary mental flash of a hippo in a tutu, without doing any internet searches and without having any interest in either tutus or hippos and that image turns up immediately online somewhere, like within seconds or minutes, it indicates to me, I am more co-creator of my reality rather than sole creator, subconscious or otherwise. Now, it might be the technology is developing rudimentary psychic skills or there is a third party involved.

If it's developing psychic skills, it is way way ahead of where it should be. This is where AI from the future may be playing a role in its ancestral base. There is something within the machinery itself that is interfacing with our minds -- Like Philip K.Dick's Valis.

Another possibility is that our technology can become haunted, in a sense. Maybe its all one in the same. All I know is that it happens with a frequency that is pretty startling. And the synchronicities seem to show up in clusters.

[Aragorn]

The Law of Attraction, as I understand it, draws that to yourself which you deeply focus on, or pray about, or imagine yourself as already having. There may be something to it but think its effects are overblown or misinterpreted a great deal of the time. People who practise it want to be more, want more. It just seems a bit creepy, like a materialistic impulse using spiritual practice as a technique to acquire it. Kind of profane.

Misinterpretation of the Law of Attraction is indeed more prevalent than a proper understanding thereof, coupled to a convenient neglect regarding the other Laws. People think that the Law of Attraction means that if you focus on something long enough, you'll also obtain it. That's not how it works.

The Law of Attraction means that anything that manages to capture your attention for longer than just a casual/subconscious moment ─ and thus has your focus for a while, whether that's a positive focus or a negative focus ─ will return to your attention at some later point, either as a synchronicity or as something more meaningful. By consequence, it has the mechanism of a vicious circle. Things that you're trying to escape from will always return as your prison warden. Traumas that you're trying to forget will come back to haunt you in the form of post-traumatic stress disorder. Belief systems that you're trying to shake off will appear to confirm their veracity to you again.

But at the same time, people you got along with well in the past will cross your path again, or at any rate, you will hear of them again. Things you will have pursued in the past but have let go of because they seemed unattainable will present themselves in front of your eyes like a dangling carrot in front of a mule. You won't necessarily get the carrot, but its presence in your attention will be strong enough to keep you trying to get to it.

It's all about the subconscious, and thus, about who you really are, what you really believe, how you really see yourself, what you really expect from life, and so on. That's the crux of the whole thing. It's not about what you love or hate, but about what you believe (your) reality to be. It's a confirmation or reaffirmation of your entire belief system. And that in itself is a concept way too complex for most people, so they misunderstand what it's really about, and the whole thing becomes a misinformation-driven cult in and of itself. New Age philosophy is full of such things.

But if I have a momentary mental flash of a hippo in a tutu, without doing any internet searches and without having any interest in either tutus or hippos and that image turns up immediately online somewhere, like within seconds or minutes, it indicates to me, I am more co-creator of my reality rather than sole creator, subconscious or otherwise.

Correct. And this is because at the quantum level, all is one, and as such, the consciousness that dwells in you also dwells in others ─ others, who are not like you in their personalities, their values and their knowledge. They might not even reside within this physical realm.

Reality is the product of a great number of individuated consciousnesses that are somehow all linked together, and thus as an individual, you are not the sole creator, but a co-creator. It's a little like elections ─ gawd, let's not go there again, please ─ in that your vote counts, but so do the votes of everyone else who showed up at the polling station. The difference however is that it's confined to your personal reality bubble and other, intersecting reality bubbles ─ or if you will, highly localized elections and a single polling station.

Now, it might be the technology is developing rudimentary psychic skills or there is a third party involved.

It's the "third party", not the technology.

[Octopus Garden]

Aragorn,

Thank you for answering in such depth and detail. I understand what you wrote. I wonder if the 'all one' quantum level experience could transcend space and time as we know it.

Taking tech out of the equation for a moment....Could a diffuse self, co-creating with other diffuse, quantum level selves
operate outside of our understanding of space time?

And could that individuated consciousness, within the co-created reality bubble also operating on the same principles in the past (presuming this is true) not experience it as an informational coincidence?

Should a person experiencing a coincidence in the past query someone in their own time about receiving the info, somehow from the future be met with the same reasoning?

So, "you" cannot travel back in time but the diffuse quantum level "you" can, within your bubble.

Is technology with its emphasis on mental rather than physical activity, exaggerating this effect, while enhancing it?

[Aragorn]

Aragorn,

Thank you for answering in such depth and detail. I understand what you wrote. I wonder if the 'all one' quantum level experience could transcend space and time as we know it.

Most likely, yes, because at the quantum level, time does not exist in the same manner as we are experiencing it here in the macro-world.

Taking tech out of the equation for a moment....Could a diffuse self, co-creating with other diffuse, quantum level selves operate outside of our understanding of space time?

Well, something is, that's for sure. But whether it's the co-creating collective or the pre-diffuse proto-consciousness that created all of us, that is something I have no answer to.

And could that individuated consciousness, within the co-created reality bubble also operating on the same principles in the past (presuming this is true) not experience it as an informational coincidence?

Should a person experiencing a coincidence in the past query someone in their own time about receiving the info, somehow from the future be met with the same reasoning?

Possibly ─ I do not know.

So, "you" cannot travel back in time but the diffuse quantum level "you" can, within your bubble.

It may not necessarily be "traveling in time" as much as "being aware across time" and planting the seeds in the past for what is destined to happen in the future.

Just because we interpret the seeds as a message from the future doesn't mean that this is what it is. It might just be a kind of pareidolia on account of something that had been destined to happen all along. (I do not believe in free will.)

Is technology with its emphasis on mental rather than physical activity, exaggerating this effect, while enhancing it?

Not the effect itself, but perhaps our perception/interpretation of it.

[Octopus Garden]

Erik Davis is a fascinating author. I have read about his book, Techgnosis, and talked to people who read it and it touches on this theme, to some degree.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGwKge-ivkU

[Dreamtimer]

I love your questions OG. I'm looking forward to listening to Erik.