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  1. #226
    Super Moderator Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Plenty of dirt to go around, and the Bidens own their fair share of it, but it didn't take Sherlock Holmes to discover that the guy screaming about election fraud, has himself been found guilty of election fraud.

    What was it about "2000 Mules" that you found so convincing Vern?
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

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  3. #227
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Plenty of dirt to go around, and the Bidens own their fair share of it, but it didn't take Sherlock Holmes to discover that the guy screaming about election fraud, has himself been found guilty of election fraud.

    What was it about "2000 Mules" that you found so convincing Vern?
    Probably the same thing as what's convincing to all those other people who buy into it, namely that it was an electoral victory for the Democrats. Had it been an electoral victory for the Republicans — and specifically, for The Orange Messiah™ — then there wouldn't have been any outrage at all. Nobody would have said a thing, and then in fact, this documentary would never even have been made.

    Furthermore, it isn't even a new tactic, because there was already similar footage going round on YouTube in 2016, when it was Hillary Clinton running against Orange Jesus™. The alt-right knew that the tactic already worked back then, so now they've simply re-implemented it in a more professionally edited form. Hook, line and sinker, because people no longer posses any metacognition.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: to the far-right, it's not about justice, the truth or ethics, but about winning, whatever the cost. That's all that matters to them, and they will scheme, plot, lie and cheat from here to eternity to attain that objective. This has already been clear for decades, but if anything, the last six years have highlighted this even more, starting with those idiots who perpetrated the Q hoax and who are still not being held accountable for all the mayhem and loss of life they've caused.
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  5. #228
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Plenty of dirt to go around, and the Bidens own their fair share of it, but it didn't take Sherlock Holmes to discover that the guy screaming about election fraud, has himself been found guilty of election fraud.

    What was it about "2000 Mules" that you found so convincing Vern?
    Wow you said you watched but okay, the truth was convincing, data was massive and true, um is this still the one truth ?.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Probably the same thing as what's convincing to all those other people who buy into it, namely that it was an electoral victory for the Democrats. Had it been an electoral victory for the Republicans — and specifically, for The Orange Messiah™ — then there wouldn't have been any outrage at all. Nobody would have said a thing, and then in fact, this documentary would never even have been made.

    Furthermore, it isn't even a new tactic, because there was already similar footage going round on YouTube in 2016, when it was Hillary Clinton running against Orange Jesus™. The alt-right knew that the tactic already worked back then, so now they've simply re-implemented it in a more professionally edited form. Hook, line and sinker, because people no longer posses any metacognition.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: to the far-right, it's not about justice, the truth or ethics, but about winning, whatever the cost. That's all that matters to them, and they will scheme, plot, lie and cheat from here to eternity to attain that objective. This has already been clear for decades, but if anything, the last six years have highlighted this even more, starting with those idiots who perpetrated the Q hoax and who are still not being held accountable for all the mayhem and loss of life they've caused.
    It's like my brother taught me. (and I've written here before) I was naive if I thought it was about the truth. You say something over and over, get people to believe it. That's how you get the votes, that's where the power is. It's not about the truth. Those were Gingrich talking points and they became embedded in the mentality of the right. My brother has become conditioned and believes some of the stuff he used to know was just political talking points.

    A person can condition (even brainwash) their own self. I've watched it happen.

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  9. #231
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Wow you said you watched but okay, the truth was convincing, data was massive and true, um is this still the one truth ?.
    No, the truth is never convincing, Vern, because you don't want to hear the truth. What you want to hear is whatever confirms your biases. You have a number of beliefs — 95% of them all as false as the proverbial USD $3 bill — and then you go looking for information that appears to support your belief, and you accept it "hook, line and sinker".

    It's called confirmation bias, and it is not the first time that I'm telling you this either. But you're just too hardheaded to want to listen to what I'm saying — or for that matter, anyone who doesn't agree with your prejudices and your beliefs.

    Fact: The year is 2022. Anyone can collect video footage, and just as anyone can collect it, anyone can — with the proper tools — also edit and/or falsify their footage. There has been more than one "convincing documentary" over the past two decades that presented a completely false picture about any given situation, and many such false pictures have then of course been brought to the attention of the members here in the past, and they too would all buy into it "hook, line and sinker". Because it was "alternative", and "mainstream is bad". That's not truth-seeking, that's confirmation bias coupled with hubris, and it's no different from a political bias.

    And over at Project Avalon, they are still doing that, every single day of the year. But not here, Vern. Most of us here have truly woken up to the fact that there's a media game being played out, whether it's by the mainstream media or by the so-called alternative media — who, when push comes to shove, aren't quite all that alternative. But in order to be able to see that, you have to have discernment skills, and I am sorry to have to say it to your face like that — really, I am — but you don't appear to be particularly blessed in that area.

    I'm sure you'll disagree, but the facts speak for themselves. For the last six years, you have been the unbeaten champion of misinformation and disinformation over here at The One Truth. And yet you refuse to listen to reason. It boggles the mind. Or at least, ours, that is; yours doesn't appear to be boggled by it at all, exactly because you don't live in the same universe as the rest of us do, and unfortunately, the one you live in only exists in your own mind.
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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Look Aragorn, i have had to stop replying to you because doing so with my truth would create the soil for my departure, you continue to tell me who i am, what i think, why you are correct, that i cannot think for myself etc etc, stop it please, just give your truth n please be not afraid of mine, like that meme of a 6 nor nine between us dear friend.

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  13. #233
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Look Aragorn, i have had to stop replying to you because doing so with my truth would create the soil for my departure, you continue to tell me who i am, what i think, why you are correct, that i cannot think for myself etc etc, stop it please, just give your truth n please be not afraid of mine, like that meme of a 6 nor nine between us dear friend.
    Vern, there is no such thing as "your truth" or "my truth". There is only the truth, and how one interprets it. The truth never changes. The interpretations of the truth on the other hand do, because they are subjective.
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  15. #234
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Vern, there is no such thing as "your truth" or "my truth". There is only the truth, and how one interprets it. The truth never changes. The interpretations of the truth on the other hand do, because they are subjective.
    Duress is the energy felt from your reply, unsure why, i dont know the truth and neither do you, full stop, do we rename this forum the Only Truth ?, the One's Truth, Aragorn's Truth, my truth constantly changes so leave me out.
    I was excited when the 2000 mules movie came out and quickly went to movie trailer thread with the trailer, gets removed and am accused of trolling and usual threats banning etc, ffs lets just get along with our differences please.

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Vern, there is no such thing as "your truth" or "my truth". There is only the truth, and how one interprets it. The truth never changes. The interpretations of the truth on the other hand do, because they are subjective.
    Duress is the energy felt from your reply, unsure why,
    It's because we're just not getting through to you, Vern, as much as we keep on trying. You remain stuck in your ways and exclusively wedded to your alt-right information sources, as well as your obsession with finding dirt on the US Democrats, and your rejection of science.

    Nothing we say ever gets through to you, ever. We'd get farther on a carousel pulled by a tortoise.

    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    i dont know the truth and neither do you, full stop, do we rename this forum the Only Truth ?, the One's Truth, Aragorn's Truth, my truth constantly changes so leave me out.
    And here is where you prove the point from my above paragraph.

    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    I was excited when the 2000 mules movie came out and quickly went to movie trailer thread with the trailer, gets removed and am accused of trolling and usual threats banning etc, ffs lets just get along with our differences please.
    It's a movie trailer thread, Vern, not a political propaganda thread. As for the threat of banning, that's a default message built into the system when someone gets an infraction. We didn't write that. It's a warning that if your infraction points reach a certain threshold, then the forum engine will automatically temp-ban you.

    The infraction you got contained only a single line that was written by a moderator. The rest of that text was just the stock vBulletin warning.
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  18. #236
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    It's because we're just not getting through to you, Vern, as much as we keep on trying. You remain stuck in your ways and exclusively wedded to your alt-right information sources, as well as your obsession with finding dirt on the US Democrats, and your rejection of science.

    Nothing we say ever gets through to you, ever. We'd get farther on a carousel pulled by a tortoise.



    And here is where you prove the point from my above paragraph.



    It's a movie trailer thread, Vern, not a political propaganda thread. As for the threat of banning, that's a default message built into the system when someone gets an infraction. We didn't write that. It's a warning that if your infraction points reach a certain threshold, then the forum engine will automatically temp-ban you.

    The infraction you got contained only a single line that was written by a moderator. The rest of that text was just the stock vBulletin warning.
    Ye gads Aragorn, remember blue chickens ? , there's more yes, i have faith and can change my mind when faith proven incorrect, i do not need to say anything really, regards present train wreck compared to previous trainwrecks ( repubs or dems ) ( Trump even now is a ? though, especialllly in comparison ), you really ( please please ) need to stop telling me who i am n how i think etc, maybe we can mirror work ?.

  19. #237
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Sorta at the stage of unless mainstream news says so, feel, Wind.

    Frustrating to know that when i research anothers words and they have given pointers, go seek, one starts with mainstream well i do, then to known elders or wise ones in the specific knowledge facet, then both divides, extreme if needed eggysample Wind Antifa to kkk.

    What be the intelligence gathered, what be the feelings plus intuition, what be the wisdom, what be my experience n cials, nice, lovely stew, this be the fodder.
    From page one, lets say Kam Kam or biden, Gates or faucxi demand the world do a clunkers car crush up, all petrol, diesel cars n trucks pre 2015 crushed n in the bin, for the sake of the planet, of humanity, gosh lol under BBBetter this actualllly may be tried , i would do as i usualllly do, elders especially and gut n intuition very much, definately meditation of course, then opposing news outlets, social media and friends. If still unsure, asking spirit and letting it go, spirit is amazing at assisting in these types of matters.

    So maybe we are at spirits here ?, what spirits does one use here on TOT ?, for assistance etc ?

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I was curious about your answer to Fred's question, Vern.

    The problem with conditioning a population to believe that their opinion is as good as anyone else's is that when their opinion has no foundation in reality, societies become unstable. Instead of working problems out people start wanting to shoot each other.

    Because they've been conditioned.

    Take a look at the manifestos being written by very young men who get powerful guns way too easily and then go on a spree. This has nothing to do with the BS about Biden and everything to do with dangerous propaganda, i.e. white replacement theory, in this case spread most widely by Fox News, and folks believing, then acting on it.

    Grandmas are dying shopping for groceries because of enraged and grossly misinformed young men who get led down a very dangerous garden path.

    Propaganda isn't just another opinion or someone's personal truth. It's a very dangerous tool.

    And spreading it is irresponsible. People die.

    This is the distinction and it's playing out in real life.

    There is no free speech right to endanger others.

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  22. #239
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I was curious about your answer to Fred's question, Vern.

    The problem with conditioning a population to believe that their opinion is as good as anyone else's is that when their opinion has no foundation in reality, societies become unstable. Instead of working problems out people start wanting to shoot each other.

    Because they've been conditioned.

    Take a look at the manifestos being written by very young men who get powerful guns way too easily and then go on a spree. This has nothing to do with the BS about Biden and everything to do with dangerous propaganda, i.e. white replacement theory, in this case spread most widely by Fox News, and folks believing, then acting on it.

    Grandmas are dying shopping for groceries because of enraged and grossly misinformed young men who get led down a very dangerous garden path.

    Propaganda isn't just another opinion or someone's personal truth. It's a very dangerous tool.

    And spreading it is irresponsible. People die.

    This is the distinction and it's playing out in real life.

    There is no free speech right to endanger others.
    Wow, Musk said who controls the teleprompter runs the USA, some say who owns the media owns those mind not known = ?.

    Thankyou though as you keep me on me toes DT and grossly informed by whom ?, thyself ?, teleprompter ?, MSN ?, God ?, Universe ?, parents decades ago ?, Whom ?.

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    [...] grossly informed by whom ?, thyself ?, teleprompter ?, MSN ?, God ?, Universe ?, parents decades ago ?, Whom ?.
    There are several factors involved, Vern, and the biggest factor is often also the most overlooked one, i.e. the opinions of the child's/teenager's peers. Kids at school — and outside of school — are influencing each other, both willingly and unwillingly. One kid has an opinion, true or false, and shares it with other kids. And then more often than not, those other kids adopt that opinion as the truth, because they believe the kid who told them — maybe they respect that other kid, or maybe the other kid spoke with a voice of authority.

    And in this day and age, you can throw the internet on top of that. Kids' access to the internet is unfiltered — they are exposed to things their minds aren't ready for yet. Yes, adult supervision software does exist, but not many parents install that on their shared computers, and there's very little point to it if the kids have their own computer and/or their own smartphone — and these days, laptops are a mandatory requisite for middle- and high-school education, while we're now also entering a time where just about every six-year-old owns a smartphone, so to speak. Not because it's required for anything, but "because the other kids have one too."

    And just as young people are suggestible when exposed to the opinions of their peers, they are equally suggestible when exposed to the plethora of misinformation, disinformation, propaganda, hoaxes and other lies on the internet, whether intentional or unintentional. You only have to look around at the older threads here at the forum — and most notably the junk posted by Ria and her ilk — to know that adults are not exactly immune to buying into all kinds of lies, hoaxes, misinformation, disinformation and propaganda. And then I'm not even talking about venues like Project Avalon, which are endless echo chambers for falsehoods and mob (in)justice — especially when they are being led by someone with very poor discernment skills.

    In addition to the above, then there are the active rallies out in the tangible world. An example of that would be bsbray. He already had a bit of a mean streak about him from before, but he was still within possession of his faculties when he got hired as a moderator here. But then in 2016, he started attending Trump rallies, and it completely polarized him. It did away with all of his common sense and slowly but steadily turned him into a rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth, commie-hating, American-nationalist and white-supremacist bigot, who cannot even talk of anything else anymore than his obsession, and who insults everyone he doesn't like with a passionate hatred, lumping them all together as (in his mind) members of the group of people that he and others with the same political affiliation hate so much. It's the hatred that fuels him and his ilk, and they in turn feed it back. They're addicted to it, and they need their rush, in which they can give in to that hatred.

    And that is called brainwashing. It essentially pushes all that the person is or ever was into the back of their minds and obsessively fixates their attention on that one thing, and on that one thing only. Neither Dreamtimer, nor Wind, nor Fred Steeves — granted, Fred was not a member of the staff yet at that point in time — nor Malc, nor I myself are even remotely gay, but in bsbray's last message to us via the contact form, he was constantly calling us all gay and using words like "faggots" and "transgender children".

    Do you honestly think that he would have accused us of such and would have addressed us as such if he had still been within full possession of his mental faculties? No, of course not, but the truth didn't matter anymore to him. It was all about hatred, and nothing but hatred. We are not Trump supporters, and therefore, in the "either you're with us or you're against us" rhetoric that George W. Bush once used on public television, we were as such "against him", and we were "liberals", and "gays", and "communists", and whatever else there is in terms of labels that the alt-right so eagerly likes sticking onto its enemies.

    Getting back to the list of influences you cite in what I've quoted above, yes, the parents are also an influence. All of my life, I have known entire families over here to adhere to one specific party-political affiliation. Generally speaking, if you grow up with parents who adhere to the far-right — such as the Flemish-nationalists here in the Flanders — then you yourself will be voting for that party as well. And if you grow up with parents who are self-employed, then you'll vote for the Keynesian liberals. If you grow up in poverty or in a family of lesser-skilled workers, then you will most likely end up voting for the socialists. And if as a child you are a member of some scouts group, then you're very likely to end up voting for (and possibly even becoming a member of) the Christian-democrats.

    A similar thing is true with regard to religious convictions, and especially so in all three of the Abrahamic religions, although here in Europe, Christianity appears to be the weaker one of the three, given that Christians here tend to convert to either Islam or Judaism far more often than that Muslims or Jews will convert to Christianity.

    And then on top of that, there are the media. Nowadays, it's becoming more difficult to see the forest for the trees due to the bigger media corporations buying up the smaller and previously independent media companies, but just as there are so-called influencers on YouTube nowadays, the printed press has also for ages already had its own influencers, albeit that they used to call them "opinion makers" — it's just a fancier term, but it boils down to the same thing, i.e. someone who tries to sell you their opinion as being "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth."

    And yet, those are just human beings like the rest of us. So why would their opinion be worth more than anybody else's? The answer is that it isn't, but that people do nevertheless believe it to be, because the writer in question speaks with a voice of authority, and/or because people assume that the writer is better educated and/or more intelligent than they are. And so they buy into the writer's opinion. But the seed was already there from beforehand, because that writer's opinion piece is published in a newspaper or a magazine — or nowadays, on a website — that's already colorized in a certain direction, and that the reader is already subscribed to or otherwise monitoring.

    So you see, Vern, it's a whole framework of self-reinforcing structures, with echoes bouncing around between them. But I'd say that in this day and age, the internet is most likely the biggest factor in determining people's opinion regarding what is true and what is false, and especially now that the (primarily US American) alt-right and anti-science movements have successfully managed to establish a major presence on the English-speaking parts of the internet.

    Back in Nazi Germany, Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's Reich Minister of Propaganda, said "If you repeat the lie long enough, it'll become the truth." And that's exactly what the alt-right/anti-science movement is doing, Vern. They're repeating the lie over and over, until everyone has come to believe that it is the truth. But it isn't, and it won't ever be.

    Like I said, there is no such thing as your truth or my truth, or Dreamtimer's truth, or Joe Biden's truth, or Donald Trump's truth. There is only the truth. But based upon what people know, understand and believe, their interpretation of what is true varies. Not the truth itself.
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