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Thread: Fallout Following Attempted Coup in US

  1. #46
    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Coups won't make the world a better place.

    Are folks really jonesing for coups? Is the world so upside-down that people think that's good?


    For those who haven't noticed, I'm not singing Biden's praises. I haven't posted anything positive about him.

    I don't care who is the target, throwing around grave accusations diminished everyone's spirit.

    It's ugly and I see no reason to condone it.


    Perhaps others simply cannot see the awful effects of the Trump Presidency on the US.

    Just because it was different does not make it better or preferable.

    There are many things, like the kinds of things which follow coups, which would be way worse than the current Presidency.


    Change without thought to consequences is profoundly foolish.
    True, but people tend to get what they ask for. If the numbers are big enough. If the U.S. tries it ... lots of dead bodies and no different government will result.

    I had a friend in high school that once made the comment on something read that the days of 'revolution' were over because institutions were too powerful.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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  3. #47
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    From the Bulwark.

    On January 6, 2021, members of the Oath Keepers, high on conspiracies and disinformation, went to Washington, D.C. to support then-President Donald Trump. They anticipated that they would be providing “security” for “patriots” attending his Stop the Steal rally and, should the need present itself, that they would put down an insurrection.

    In reality, their group, which explicitly recruits former military service members and law enforcement officers, helped spur an insurrection of its own. And today, some of the Oath Keepers are defendants at the center of the largest criminal investigation in U.S. history.


    What were they thinking? And who came up with this deranged plan in the first place? Why didn’t anyone stop them?

    The only way to answer those questions to the public’s satisfaction would be via an independent commission empowered to conduct a full investigation of what happened on January 6—as well as of the lies and incitement that led up to that day. But short of that, Department of Justice court filings for the various arrestees offer crucial insights into what the participants in the insurrection hoped would happen. Read in conjunction with contemporaneous public statements from Trump and his allies, as well as comments from Pentagon officials, it is possible to assemble a rough timeline of what the various players on January 6 had in mind.

    As it turns out, they were all talking and thinking quite a lot about insurrection long before it happened.[/SIZE]




    To understand January 6, 2021, we must first look back to June 1, 2020.

    That was the day Donald Trump delivered a terse Rose Garden speech threatening to deploy the U.S. military to any city or state that “refuses to take the actions that are necessary to defend the life and property of their residents.”

    Trump’s staff argued that the threatened military deployment would have been permitted under the Insurrection Act of 1807, which empowers the president to deploy federal troops for domestic law enforcement under certain circumstances.

    As Trump spoke, federal law enforcement officers, joined by officers from other local jurisdictions, clashed with protesters near Lafayette Square, just north of the White House. Officers outfitted in riot gear pushed protesters away from the square, firing rubber bullets at them. Tear gas was used. Army helicopters buzzed the crowds.

    The message was clear. Trump had a military and was willing to use it. But the backlash from the military community came quickly. Admiral Mike Mullen, a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs, said he was “sickened” to “see security personnel—including members of the National Guard—forcibly and violently clear a path through Lafayette Square to accommodate the president’s visit outside St. John’s Church.” Gen. James Mattis, the respected Marine general who had preceded Esper as Trump’s defense secretary, said he was “angry and appalled.”

    Secretary Esper soon distanced himself from Trump, albeit after the fact. He told reporters at a June 3 Pentagon briefing, “The option to use active-duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort, and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations now. I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act.” Gen. Milley later reportedly got into a “heated discussion” with Trump over whether to send active-duty troops to the streets, and in July he publicly apologized, saying, “I should not have been there” for Trump’s photo op.

    But Republican politicians and conservative commentators supported Trump’s move. Sen. Tom Cotton wrote an op-ed for the New York Times titled “Send in the Troops”; it was so controversial that the paper later said it should never have been published and one of the responsible editors resigned.



    After the press called the election for Joe Biden on November 7, Trump quickly fired Esper, who had openly opposed invoking the Insurrection Act, and installed Christopher Miller as acting defense secretary. And, as “Stop the Steal” efforts gained steam through November and December, Trump’s allies Sidney Powell, Lin Wood, and Michael Flynn often advocated using the Insurrection Act as a catch-all solution to any number of problems Trump faced. One disturbing Politico headline makes the point: “MAGA leaders call for the troops to keep Trump in office.”


    Through it all, Trump never let go of the idea. And as summer changed into fall, talk on the right of an “insurrection” that might be met with a military response shifted from the George Floyd protests and civil unrest to the 2020 election. The same terms and the same proposed action, just a new target.

    In a Fox News appearance in September, host Jeanine Pirro asked Trump how he would react if he won the 2020 election and Democrats rioted. “We’ll put them down very quickly if they do that. We have the right to do that. We have the power to do that if we want,” Trump said. “Look, it’s called ‘insurrection.’ We just send in, and we do it, very easy. I mean, it’s very easy.” That same month, in an appearance on conspiracy theorist Alex Jones’s InfoWars program, Trump’s longtime ally Roger Stone—who would later be pardoned by Trump for witness tampering in the Russia investigation and lying to Congress—also talked up the idea of Trump invoking the Insurrection Act.

    Although Trump and his allies were in disagreement with the military community about the Insurrection Act, Trump seemed to have other ideas about whom he could call for backup.

    During the September 29 debate, Fox News anchor Chris Wallace asked Trump whether he was willing to “condemn white supremacists and militia groups and . . . say that they need to stand down.” Trump replied “sure” but then said the Proud Boys groups should “stand back and stand by” for the election.

    “But I’ll tell you what,” Trump continued, “somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem.”

    If anyone was primed to take marching orders about insurrection from Commander-in-Chief Trump, it was Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes. To him, it must have sounded like a bugle call directly in his ears.

    Rhodes, who founded the group in 2009, has been talking about insurrection for years. And the combination of COVID lockdowns and BLM protests apparently triggered his militant aspirations more than ever. He wrote on Facebook in August 2020 that “Civil war is here, right now” and warned there would be “open warfare with Marxist insurrectionists by Election Day.” Shortly after the media called the election for Trump, Rhodes said in a livestreamed speech that viewers should “stand up now and call on the president to suppress the insurrection.”

    He meant it.

    Court filings from the Department of Justice containing communications from Oath Keeper militants—some of whom are said to have acted as personal security for Roger Stone at “Stop the Steal” rallies, including on the eve of the January 6 insurrection—show how clear Rhodes’s thinking was about it.

    According to prosecutors, Rhodes held a planning meeting for the attack on November 9, 2020. During it, he said:

    “We’re going to defend the president, the duly elected president, and we call on him to do what needs to be done to save our country. Because if you don’t guys, you’re going to be in a bloody, bloody civil war, and a bloody—you can call it an insurrection or you can call it a war or fight.”
    He told his followers they needed to be prepared to fight Antifa, which he characterized as a group of individuals with whom “if the fight comes, let the fight come. Let Antifa—if they go kinetic on us, then we’ll go kinetic back on them. I’m willing to sacrifice myself for that. Let the fight start there. That will give President Trump what he needs, frankly. If things go kinetic, good. If they throw bombs at us and shoot us, great, because that brings the president his reason and rationale for dropping the Insurrection Act.”
    He continued, “I do want some Oath Keepers to stay on the outside, and to stay fully armed and prepared to go in armed, if they have to. . . . So our posture’s gonna be that we’re posted outside of D.C., um, awaiting the president’s orders. . . . We hope he will give us the orders. We want him to declare an insurrection, and to call us up as the militia” (emphasis added).

    Similarly, the head of the Florida Oath Keepers, Kelly Meggs claimed in a December 19 Facebook post that he had organized an “alliance between Oath Keepers, Florida 3%ers [Three Percenters], and Proud Boys. We have decided to work together and shut this shit down” on January 6.

    On December 26, Meggs told someone on Facebook that “Trumps staying in, he’s Gonna use the emergency broadcast system on cell phones to broadcast to the American people. Then he will claim the insurrection act.” Meggs’s Facebook interlocutor asked when this would take place. Meggs said “next week” and to “wait for the 6th when we are all in DC to insurrection.”

    On January 3, Meggs told another person that more than two hundred Oath Keepers were “called” to the nation’s capital because recent action taken by Vice President Mike Pence “checks all the boxes.” The January 6 event, Meggs warned, was not going to be a “rally.”


    As the Oath Keepers secretly made their pre-January 6 preparations, the military community was growing increasingly worried that Trump might use the armed forces to interfere with the certification of the election that he was claiming had been stolen.

    All ten living former defense secretaries, including Mark Esper, made a dramatic statement in a January 3 Washington Post opinion piece warning that “efforts to involve the U.S. armed forces in resolving election disputes would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory” and any civilian or military officials who helped carry out such measures could face criminal penalties.

    [T]he events...led to the violence that resulted in five deaths, 140 injured police officers, and $1.5 million in damage to the U.S. Capitol. More than 460 arrests have been made in connection to the attack, and the ensuing trials will presumably take years to complete.

    Sixteen Oath Keepers have been charged with federal conspiracy, among other offenses, for their actions that day. Prosecutors have started discussing plea deals with some Oath Keeper members, which will presumably lead to more information about who else was involved in their activities. Absent an independent commission or the creation of a serious congressional investigation, that may be the only hope of finding out how high and wide the planning for this entire operation went.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 7th June 2021 at 16:43. Reason: incomplete with duplicate text

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  5. #48
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Pentagon officials can’t get their stories straight about the January 6th insurrection.



    Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy claimed the Pentagon hesitated to send help on January 6th because after the June 2020 events, “we had to put much tighter limits of these types of activities.”

    Then, Pentagon officials claimed their inaction during the January 6th insurrection was due to inadequate planning, blaming Capitol Police and D.C. Mayor Muriel E. Bowser (D) for not requesting assistance beforehand.

    Rep Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) countered that even though the insurrection was planned, in advance, in plain sight on social media, and the FBI and DOJ have a duty to warn of domestic terrorist threats, the Pentagon claimed to be unprepared. (which would mean they admit to incompetence?)

    Perhaps the foulest excuse came from former Acting U.S. Secretary of Defense Christopher C. Miller, (who was required to sign off on dispatching D.C. Guard members after the sudden firing of Mark Esper), when he testified in May 2021 that he wanted to avoid a deadly 1970 Kent State University style shooting.

    The Army falsely denied that three-star Army Lt. Gen. Charles Flynn attended a tense call with agencies pleading for the D.C. National Guard to intervene in the deadly attack of the Capitol. Days later, Charles Flynn himself admitted that he had, “entered the room after the call began and departed prior to the call ending,” believing a decision was imminent from the Army Secretary McCarthy.

    On January 5th Michael Flynn met with insurrectionists who were preparing to attack the U.S. Capitol on January 6th. On June 4, 2021, Charles Flynn was promoted to four-star general. (looks like a reward from Trump, along with criminal brother Michael's pardon)

    Trump’s November 2020 nomination for Charles Flynn’s promotion was confirmed by the Senate in December 2020.
    It all stinks.

    from comments:

    U.S. Vice President called on the National Guard to mobilize and clear Congress of the threat, and that request was refused for nearly 4 hours as the attack continued. Denied while Lt. General Charles Flynn was in the room considering Pence's request, and made more suspicious when the Army and Pentagon adamantly denied Flynn's presence for several days afterwards.
    I had grave concerns about right wing fascists in my town countering a BLM protest last May. I shared those concerns with the police chief and the city manager. The day of the demonstrations I had to call PD three times on the racists in racist regalia, swearing and drinking alcohol in front of my office. I was told to mind my business and I said I couldnt becuase they were violating my no tresspass order on my business entry and no client dare approach. I had a contractor finish boarding my windows and I left. To noone but an idiots surpirse two of the racist fascists are up on charges because they later attacked unprovoked two BLM protestors. Multiple cell phone video footage supports that.. at first PD attested the bloodied victims who lost teeth had a broken jaw and other major injuries. The feds assisting quickly squashed that and both fascist racists were taken into custody and charged. I moved my business from that town. Avoid Oakdale CA.

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  7. #49
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    The social media site Parler has been adopted by many supporters of former President Donald Trump as part of the boycott of sites that banned him. But now it's being revealed that Parler alerted the FBI to violence being planned on their platform ahead of the Jan. 6 attack.

    Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) revealed Tuesday in a video to the House Oversight Committee that not only did Parler out their members to the feds, they send warnings and information more than 50 times.

    It also appears the FBI was well aware of the attack being planned. It's unclear how much information they turned over to the Capitol Police or anyone in Congress on the relevant committees.
    from Rawstory

    I was going to post Don Henley's song Inside Job, but apparently it's no longer available online. I suppose it got abused.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 16th June 2021 at 11:22.

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  9. #50
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    from Rawstory

    I was going to post Don Henley's song Inside Job, but apparently it's no longer available online. I suppose it got abused.
    No, not so much abused as that anything ever released by Don Henley and/or The Eagles is strictly protected by the YouTube copyright Nazis, possibly after they had been nudged in that direction by Mr. Henley himself. There are yet other artists like that ─ e.g. Metallica.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  11. #51
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Audits still happening ?

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  13. #52
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    You mean the dog and pony, bread and circus show where ballots were compromised and machines ruined at taxpayer's expense?

    You mean the farce being enacted to lay the groundwork for only counting the ballots that they want to count? The thing that's undermining our very Democracy?

    I know you're not a fan of our Democracy. That much has been very clear.

    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    No, not so much abused as that anything ever released by Don Henley and/or The Eagles is strictly protected by the YouTube copyright Nazis, possibly after they had been nudged in that direction by Mr. Henley himself. There are yet other artists like that ─ e.g. Metallica.
    Jeez Louise. I could only find videos from a concert posted by someone Russian.

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