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Thread: Fallout Following Attempted Coup in US

  1. #76
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    Bill is a libertarian. That sums it up pretty much, I think. But being your own man or own women ignores the fact that we have to get along in a community, in the meat world. Online communities aren't real relationships with real people, bumping up against physical barriers, etc... So the libertarian philosophy,(right leaning) isn't realistic. Now left leaning libertarianism, seems to be more in the middle and rational to me. And I think that is a more European understanding of the term.

    I am so with you Aragorn. I would love to see a currency free world where your worked at something you loved just for the sheer joy of it. Even farm produce would be picked by people who lived nearby, instead of working out in a gym. That kind of world.

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  3. #77
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Beau addresses the first conviction and how it's the floor, not the ceiling. And he addresses the long-term goals of justice.


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  5. #78
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I saw these orders back in January. I wonder who was paying attention?

    "Now the question is, why did this guidance go out like this?"

    Good question. Needs answering.

    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 25th July 2021 at 15:39.

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  7. #79
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    "This guidance came from the acting Sec Def based on an order from the Commander in Chief."

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  9. #80
    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I saw these orders back in January. I wonder who was paying attention?

    "Now the question is, why did this guidance go out like this?"

    Good question. Needs answering.

    I was ... I was glad that someone saw the obvious as I did. People got no sense ...
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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  11. #81
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    Marcy Wheeler of Empty Wheel (most recently linked here with skepticism over the Guardian article) has been analyzing Glen Greenwald.

    You’ve no doubt seen the conspiracy theory championed by Tucker Carlson and Glenn Greenwald claiming that the unnamed Oath Keeper associates described in those indictments are actually FBI informants.
    As happened with earlier propaganda campaigns (notably the one downplaying Brian Sicknick’s death), the conspiracy theory started with Revolver News, got magnified by Tucker Carlson, and got normalized by Glenn Greenwald (the latter of whose central role largely escaped attention because commentators don’t identify him, yet, as a right wing propagandist).
    Parts of this campaign are pathetic, even for the men involved, and may reflect a desperate attempt to repackage their own past claims.

    For example, after parroting a bunch of obviously self-serving PR from Parler in the days after the attack (such as that the insurrectionists organized on Facebook, not Parler), Glenn now shows that Parler was actually sharing threats of violence with the FBI in advance, without noting that that undermines several things he said in the past, such as that the insurrectionists didn’t plan on Parler. This must be dizzying and embarrassing for Glenn.
    And because Glenn has to package this — like he did his never-ending obsession with Hunter Biden’s laptop — as a failure of Democrats and liberal media, he remarkably claims that the left — which has so relentlessly asked why the FBI was caught unawares that Glenn even screen caps an example of Ryan Goodman linking to Carolyn Maloney doing so — is resistant to questioning the FBI’s role in the riot.

    "What accounts for this furious liberal #Resistance to questioning the FBI’s role in the January 6 riot and asking whether there are vital facts that are being concealed?"
    Maybe Glenn has a harder time getting CSPAN in Brazil than I do in Ireland, because when I’ve watched the multiple hearings Democratic Chairs of various committees (including Maloney) have had with FBI Director Chris Wray or now-National Security Branch EAD Jill Sanborn, they question the FBI about it over and over and over.
    The absurdity of accusing Sharon Caldwell of entrapping her spouse has, justifiably, gotten all the attention from this campaign.

    But there’s a piece of propaganda that it incorporates — one parroted by Members of Congress — that deserves focus of its own: in framing his piece, Glenn not only claims that the plot leaders have been shielded from charges, he also states as fact that, “low-level protesters have been aggressively charged with major felonies and held without bail.”
    In making this claim, Glenn is mindlessly parroting something that appears in the original Revolver piece.
    The men detained pre-trial are accused of leading the insurrection, precisely the people that this conspiracy theory falsely claims have been shielded from charges. Among the Proud Boys, Ethan Nordean, Joe Biggs, Charles Donohoe, Zack Rehl, and Kansas City cell leader Billy Chrestman remain jailed. Among the Oath Keepers, Kelly Meggs, Kenneth Harrelson, and Jessica Watkins remain jailed. All are accused of playing key leadership roles in the insurrection.

    There were some questionable detention decisions early on. At this stage, however, there are no cases where people still detained are simply protestors on the wrong side of the law.

    And yet even Glenn makes that false claim without any evidence.
    Christopher Wray — the FBI Director chosen by Donald Trump — has, from day one, called this a terrorist attack.

    More importantly, the person leading this investigation for the first two months was the US Attorney Bill Barr installed with no input from Congress, Michael Sherwin. If Sherwin had his way, these people would be charged with seditious conspiracy. Under Sherwin, Proud Boy Dominic Pezzola’s crimes were labeled terrorism. Under Michael Sherwin, Jessica Watkins’ crimes were labeled terrorism. And while the Jon Schaffer cooperation agreement that McCarthy disdains was finalized after Sherwin left, signs of it were already evident before Sherwin left
    More at Empty Wheel.

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  13. #82
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    CSPAN is live-airing the hearings on the insurrection and seditious attack on the nation's Capitol.

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  15. #83
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    U.S. Rep. Lt.Col. Adam Kinzinger IL-16, Energy and Commerce, Foreign Affairs made a statement after today's hearings.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y0RMdBT6yU


    Today's hearing is now available in it's entirety.


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  17. #84
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    For those who don't yet know, there is a 13 minute video of the attack from the trial in January. You can go to CSPAN on you tube but it will ask for your age.

    And there's the 40 plus minute video assembled by the New York Times which is a compilation of videos posted by the people who entered the Capitol as well as body-cam footage and security footage.

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  19. #85
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    S.E. Cupp addresses Elise Stefanik and her Pelosi claims.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44uuYQg-xuo


    Oh, the sad desperation of those trying to say it was Antifa, no wait, it was the Dems, no wait, it was the FBI, no wait, it's Pelosi, no wait, it's 'fill-in-the-blank'.

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  21. #86
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    Those who ridicule and disrespect the officers who protected the Capitol are, in my opinion, cowards and worse. Tara Setmayer reacts in a passionate and very honest way to the testimony and the denials. Tara quotes Lincoln, "Any nation that does not honor its heroes will not endure."


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  23. #87
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    I keep hearing Aianawa's phrase in my head, "It's all coming out."


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    This should go here. I haven't addressed the DOJ notes yet. It goes directly to intent and state of mind on the part of Trump. Which is key.


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    There are parameters and those parameters were met.

    'In banana republics, in … many parts of the world, when a candidate loses for president, they go after the candidate, they go after his lawyers, they go after his friends… That’s happening in America now....'

    Dershowitz got that one right, almost. It's what his buddy Rudy and their buddy Donald have been doing since the day Donald's reply to a question about peaceful transfer of power was 'we'll see.'

    'Treason shall consist of ...levying war against the United States...' Straight-up and by the book. Throw away the key.

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  29. #90
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    The election lies from the right here in America are ongoing. The Republican party seems to be making it part of their political platform. Sore losers beyond compare.

    The ensuing and very predictable violence has continued, enacted by folks who really need a bogeyman. Politically, it's the lies about election fraud and the circuses going on in Arizona and being aped in other states.

    The on-the-ground bogeyman is antifa. There needs to be a target on the streets so that a group, i.e. proud boiz, can go beat people up. The police literally stand aside.

    The same police who gassed and tazed and shot at unarmed demonstrators.

    This is what happens when a lie is given life and folks lose reason.


    There is a reality to antifa. Here are some opinions, some may see insights.

    Antifa as we know it is an example of a new mode of politics that has been called ‘leaderless resistance,’ a brand name for a set of memes (contagious ideas) to which anyone can claim allegiance.

    So even though there's no formal organization, there's a large number of individuals who claim ‘membership.’

    And, they do engage in organized group activities, mostly more-or-less spontaneous and ‘organized’ via communication among people who know each other.

    There’s a lot more to this than meets the eye, as we'll hear in coming years.
    Antifa has become a recognized 'thing' on the political scene: the 'brand' has become one of many political 'brands' with which large numbers of people identify.

    There's quite a bit more to this than what we see on the surface. For one thing, consider the benefits of a ‘brand’ with obscure in-group language and symbology that are recognizable by other adherents in social milieus where ‘just saying it' and announcing one’s politics could present one with a for-real life safety risk.

    I’ve lately been finding out more about what goes on under the Antifa umbrella, and much of what they do that isn't publicized, we would heartily approve.

    Beyond being 'thugs looking for violence' these proud boiz, are also a manifest danger to the Republic, and they (along with three or four similar groups) are at the beck & call of Michael Flynn, who is a major danger we should all be keeping a close eye on.

    There are some incredibly smart people involved with Antifa. Some of them issue calls to stand down when a bad scene is likely to occur, and they are taken seriously.

    The fact that Antifa did not show up on 06 January was one of those: the call went out to avoid DC, and people listened.

    And that choice to stay away also prevented ‘a situation' in the street that would have given Trump excuses for more & worse, and potentially distracted LE sufficiently that more & worse would have happened inside the Capitol.

    So I think we should give credit where credit is due. These folks are more politically astute than is generally recognized, and they do have operational discipline.
    This has now become a repeatable tactic, and it's great because it basically pwns the narrative. Circulate the word that Antifa will be at such-and-such place & time, and draw attention from RWE (rightwing extremist) thugs. But then Antifa is mysteriously absent and the RWE thugs go on a rampage: making quite clear to all, ‘who's what,’ and very substantially undermining the Trumpist cause.
    Increase the entropy of the enemy.

    Considering the chaos, that'll be happening a lot.

    LE means law enforcement.

    To me, 'we' means regular people who'd like to walk down the street without worrying about self-righteous folks looking for 'libs' to beat on.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 9th September 2021 at 14:38.

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