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Thread: Cancel Culture

  1. #61
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Catsquotl View Post
    What would you say is antifa?



    Well most of the first steps in critical thinking is learning to follow the money.
    Granted, stopping at the level of politics is hardly following a trail.

    So after making the distinction between leadership and following.
    How to proceed to acknowledge the followings outrage and putting a break on the leadership's agenda?
    This is more my point, than nitpicking a “sacred” tradition. Since the beginning of power, those ruling could “cancel” (or promote) whatever, it’s not some new phenomenon.

    US govt has hardly been “canceling” shit, they can’t seem to cancel the lies that our most recent election was somehow different than any other we have had.

    They haven’t removed the politicians that are openly opposing the democracy that they were supposedly elected to protect and administrate.

    The two monopolies on “political thought” continues to exist, making governing at the federal level into a Harlem Globetrotters production, making us a juvenile bipolar country where the loud party glories in “winning” and “owning their enemy”.

    The only canceling I’ve seen the gov not stop is removing statues of literal traitor enemies, which I guess the right embraces as that’s what they have become. DJT was pushing “patriotic” curriculum in school, basically cancelling teaching kids about anything wrong the GREAT USA, cancel slavery and genocide...that was the only gov “canceling” that was concerning to me. They sure ain’t canceling corporate profits or pipelines or ability to destroy whatever in endless consumption orgy that is that great anti-socialist view where people are demonized for wanting the government to HELP people, rather than just make money and jobs.

    I see very little new “canceling” coming from govt entities. The people whining about it most are neoliberal capitalists, decrying that their pet shitty idea is dropped by a corporation. It’s so fucking dumb. This country is so twisted in double speak and cognitive dissonance, there’s no chance for debate. Most Americans these days just twist reality into what they feel it should be. Bitching about cancel culture is the manifestation of when these children get one of their toys taken away. They wouldn’t whine about the corp’s rights to stop making something, but god forbid they choose to drop something because it is in their financial interest not to piss off a certain demographic

    So dumb
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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  3. #62
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    What is the purpose of your presence?

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  5. #63
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    So what does antifa want to cancel? They say it's fascism. Is that good? On its face, sure. In terms of execution.....not so sure.

    Why fight fascism? Here's a snippet of a conversation between a father and son before the son went to Charlottesville for the unite the right rally.

    The North Dakota newspaper The Forum published a letter from Pearce Tefft in which he recalled a chilling exchange about free speech with his son, Peter, shortly before Peter headed to the rally in Charlottesville. “The thing about us fascists is, it’s not that we don’t believe in freedom of speech,” the younger Tefft reportedly said to his father. “You can say whatever you want. We’ll just throw you in an oven.”
    I can't even imagine my own son uttering such a thing.


    [In] Germany...fascists were able to take over governments through legal rather than revolutionary means—much as the alt-right frames its activities as a defense of free speech, Fascists were able to spread their ideology under the aegis of liberal tolerance.
    Liberal tolerance. Wow. That's just like when some folks said that all the Qanon stuff should just be out in the open for all to see. Liberal tolerance, folks.

    Sure. Kind of the penultimate example of turning something on its head. "We tolerate fascism and white supremacy!!!" "We tolerate dangerous and unfounded accusations of pedophilia!" Yay freedom!

    In his Atlantic piece, Beinart notes, “When fascism withered after World War II, antifa did too.”
    I'm reading about the incidents in the Northwest now. The antifa folks were focussing on the right-wing and nazis. They were not duscccussing BLM. They weren't interested in BLM.

    They did explicitly say they wish to cancel fascism. So what's the problem?

    Methods is the first answer. Violence and destruction don't really work. (In my opinion. I didn't beat my son. My husband doesn't beat me.)

    But what does work for the right is to capitalize with propaganda. Turn the public eye away from them and onto.....BLM!

    Of course. And so they did.


    But even on the militant left, the movement didn’t occupy the spotlight. To most left-wing activists during the Clinton, Bush, and Obama years, deregulated global capitalism seemed like a greater threat than fascism.
    Trump has changed that. For antifa, the result has been explosive growth. According to NYC Antifa, the group’s Twitter following nearly quadrupled in the first three weeks of January alone. (By summer, it exceeded 15,000.)

    This is from 2017. It makes sense that Trump would spend so much time talking about antifa. He wants credit. It's huge. The biggest ever. Everybody knows it. You know it. You know it. You know it.

    Lightbulb time.



    Antifascists call such actions defensive. Hate speech against vulnerable minorities, they argue, leads to violence against vulnerable minorities. But Trump supporters and white nationalists see antifa’s attacks as an assault on their right to freely assemble, which they in turn seek to reassert. The result is a level of sustained political street warfare not seen in the U.S. since the 1960s. A few weeks after the attacks in San Jose, for instance, a white-supremacist leader announced that he would host a march in Sacramento to protest the attacks at Trump rallies. Anti-Fascist Action Sacramento called for a counterdemonstration; in the end, at least 10 people were stabbed.
    The left and the right are fighting each other and both are using violence. And it seems to have ticked up quite a bit under Trump. He likes this. Just like he liked the Capitol mob. He loved it, in fact.

    And still, it's not BLM. BLM is not doing the organizing. BLM is not the group who went to the unite the right rallies.

    BLM wants police to stop shooting women while they sleep at home. BLM wants police to stop shooting men who are on their own property with their own guns protecting their own selves according to our Constitution.

    I never rejoiced in Spencer or Yiannopoulos getting attacked. I thought it was stupid and wrong and just gave them more attention. Which it did.

    Didn't know this:

    Portland offers perhaps the clearest glimpse of where all of this can lead. The Pacific Northwest has long attracted white supremacists, who have seen it as a haven from America’s multiracial East and South. In 1857, Oregon (then a federal territory) banned African Americans from living there. By the 1920s, it boasted the highest Ku Klux Klan membership rate of any state.

    Now, in the Trump era, Portland has become a bastion of antifascist militancy. Masked protesters smashed store windows during multiday demonstrations following Trump’s election.
    Ah, territory battle as well. Interesting.

    What’s eroding in Portland is the quality Max Weber considered essential to a functioning state: a monopoly on legitimate violence. As members of a largely anarchist movement, antifascists don’t want the government to stop white supremacists from gathering. They want to do so themselves, rendering the government impotent. With help from other left-wing activists, they’re already having some success at disrupting government. Demonstrators have interrupted so many city-council meetings that in February, the council met behind locked doors.
    Hmmmmm. Disrupting government. Isn't that poking the Deep State in the eye? Oh wait, I keep forgetting. The fascists actually like government and just want to take it over. Gotta remember that!

    Antifa’s perceived legitimacy is inversely correlated with the government’s. Which is why, in the Trump era, the movement is growing like never before.
    Soooo....

    Is it waning now? Is antifa now attacking the Biden government? Is it retreating?

    Seems like since the right wing groups are still talking March 4 and martial law and taking over the government and bringing Trump back...antifa still has current raison-d'etre.

    Should be interesting. And I would not at all be surprised if the Biden Administration arrests antifa members. Not at all.


    There's a lot more yet to be learned about antifa, and about how it's being used by others for the sake of their own power.

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  7. #64
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Donk, you are a breath of fresh air. I really appreciate how you call a rose a rose. And stupidity, stupidity. It is what is is.

    I'm ridiculously optimistic, I guess. I still think we can somehow unwind ourselves from this mess. I look to the children who are so resourceful, so open-minded and unlimited. They can see the forest.

    I'm surely not down with the Supremely Stupid Sedition. No Thank You.

    If I were to cancel something it would be the hubris that leads people to decide they can define things on their own and then foist that upon the rest of us because they need to dominate.

    I suppose it would be the underlying fear which motivates that would be cancelled...

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  9. #65
    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by donk View Post
    This would be my prized example.
    Evergreen state college

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Wny9TstEM
    Have a great day today

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  11. #66
    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    Reminds of this guy from Mexico that I know who told me that one of the entrance questions is: "Do you support former President Cardenas?" If you said yes you were denied entrance to the university and were accepted into the university system at the "peon school". I was scared! True Story!

    Quote Originally posted by Catsquotl View Post
    This would be my prized example.
    Evergreen state college

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Wny9TstEM
    He could have gone someplace else, I'm sure there are thousands of similar universities in the U.S.

    The thing that is obvious is that counter approaches are always problematic if not well thought out ... 1st: Since early on in the movement to raise the 'perceived value' of the "others", they have been at each others throat. Yeah, really ignorant and no real understanding of how to make things succeed. I don't think this example would be one of the successful ones.

    Unless they included the disclaimer: We will show what it is like!
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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  13. #67
    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Reminds of this guy from Mexico that I know who told me that one of the entrance questions is: "Do you support former President Cardenas?" If you said yes you were denied entrance to the university and were accepted into the university system at the "peon school". I was scared! True Story!



    He could have gone someplace else, I'm sure there are thousands of similar universities in the U.S.

    The thing that is obvious is that counter approaches are always problematic if not well thought out ... 1st: Since early on in the movement to raise the 'perceived value' of the "others", they have been at each others throat. Yeah, really ignorant and no real understanding of how to make things succeed. I don't think this example would be one of the successful ones.

    Unless they included the disclaimer: We will show what it is like!
    Of course he could, however after years of working at someplace happily and then be forced to apologize for your part in the suppression of the black community because you are white or leave is a rather harsh pill to swallow for some. It's not as if he had difficulties with the college before. So this did come somewhat out of the blue for the guy.
    Have a great day today

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  15. #68
    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    well, in truth, I think there is likely only one university like that in the United States ... that was my real point ...
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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  17. #69
    Senior Member Catsquotl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    well, in truth, I think there is likely only one university like that in the United States ... that was my real point ...
    I see...
    I'm terrible at charades
    Have a great day today

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  19. #70
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Antifa is a Trump thing or being used by Trump DT ?.

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  21. #71
    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Catsquotl View Post
    I see...
    I'm terrible at charades
    Antennae need a little tuning? I love reading the messages on the wind, never tried charades because it seems hopelessly childish.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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  23. #72
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Truth and justice are what is canceled in America, sad fucking day
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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  25. #73
    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    yeah, it is sad Donk ... cosmic justice always prevails ...
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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  27. #74
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by donk View Post
    Truth and justice are what is canceled in America, sad fucking day
    I read about it in the news here tonight, but I can't say that I wasn't expecting this outcome already. The moral corruption sits way too deep.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  29. #75
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Mmmm am i missing something news wise ?.

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