Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: Roseanne Barr with Sean Stone

  1. #1
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    14th September 2013
    Posts
    1,283
    Thanks
    18,839
    Thanked 5,727 Times in 1,265 Posts

    Roseanne Barr with Sean Stone


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0J8_vJ0rJA

    "Nov 24, 2020 by Roseanne Barr

    Sean is an author, film maker and media host. you can check him out at seanstone.info."

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kathy For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Octopus Garden (29th November 2020)

  3. #2
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Posts
    7,271
    Thanks
    24,424
    Thanked 29,428 Times in 7,200 Posts
    Essentially, the memo 57 had no real military significance except to reiterate what everyone already knew and was nothing more than an internal reorganization of standard operating procedures that held zero implications by Kennedy. It became meaningful only after Johnson had become President and instituted further organizational changes which essentially made the CIA less front and center. In other words kept them in their historical role of covert operations in opposition to the FBI's desire to be the big dawg. No idea why people are hyperventilating over this whole thing. As far Trump, he might have started this whole thing believing that it would cause more trouble for Biden. After all, that is his current focus, if not, just to kill as many people as possible.

    - me -

    NATIONAL SECURITY ACTION MEMORANDUM NO. 57 - NATIONAL SECURITY ACTION MEMORANDA [NSAM]: NSAM 57, RESPONSIBILITY FOR PARAMILITARY OPERATIONS
    TO: The Secretary of State, The Secretary of Defense, The Director, CIA

    The President has approved the attached recommendation:

    The Special Group (5412 Committee) will perform the functions
    assigned in the recommendation to the Strategic Resources
    Group.

    McGeorge Bundy
    cc: General Maxwell D. Taylor, Mrs. Lincoln, Mr. Smith

    RESPONSIBILITY FOR PARAMILITARY OPERATIONS

    1. For the purpose of this study, a paramilitary operation is considered to be one which by its tactics and its requirements in military-type personnel, equipment and training approximates a con- ventional military operation. It may be undertaken in support of an existing government friendly to the U.S. or in support of a rebel group seeking to overthrow a government hostile to us. The U.S. may render assistance to such operations overtly, covertly or by a combination of both methods. In size these operations may vary from the infiltration of a squad of guerillas to a military operation such as the Cuban invasion. The small operations will often fall completely within the normal capability of one agency; the large ones may affect State, Defense, CIA, USIA and possibly other departments and agencies.

    2. In order to conduct paramilitary operations with maximum effectiveness and flexibility within the context of the Cold War, it is recommended that current directives and procedures be modified to effect the following:
    a. Any proposed paramilitary operation in the concept state will be presented to the Strategic Resources Group for initial considertation and for approval as necessary by the President. There after, the SRG will assign primary responsibility for planning, for interdepartment coordination and for execution to the Task Force, department or individual best qualified to carry forward the operation to success, and will indicate supporting responsibilities. Under this principle, the Department of Defense will normally receive responsibility for overt paramilitary operations. Where such an operation is to be wholly covert or disavowable, it may be assigned to CIA, provided that it is within the normal capabilities of the agency. Any large paramilitary operation wholly or partly covert which requires significant numbers of military trained personnel, amounts to military equipment which exceed normal CIA-controlled stocks and/or military experience of a kind and level peculiar to the Armed services is properly the primary responsibility of the Department of Defense with the CIA in a supporting role.

    Lyndon B. Johnson
    The assassination of Diem sparked a cascade of coups in Saigon, and at the same time the city was wracked with assassinations. Lyndon B. Johnson, the new President, wanted to refocus the CIA on intelligence, rather than covert action, while the Kennedys were seen as relentless in their hounding of the CIA to produce results, Johnson soon gave them only the most minimal attention.

    In the face of the failure of Project Tiger, the Pentagon wanted CIA paramilitary forces to participate in their Op Plan 64A, this resulted in the CIA's foreign paramilitaries being put under the command of the DOD, a move seen as a slippery slope inside the CIA, a slide from covert action towards militarization. After touring Vietnam in 1964, DI McCone and Secretary of Defense McNamara had different views of the U.S. position. McCone believed that as long as the Ho Chi Minh trail was active the U.S. would struggle.

    DI McCone had statutory control over all intelligence committees, but in reality, but the military had near total control of the DIA, the NRO, the NSA, and many other aspects. Importantly, President Johnson almost completely ignored the CIA. In effect, the military controlled the two-thirds of the CIA budget laid out for covert action. McCone, the unspoken hero of the Cuban Missile Crisis, submitted his resignation in the summer, but Johnson would not accept it until after the election.

    On August 4, Secretary of Defense McNamara gave President Johnson the raw translation of intercepted Korean transmissions directly from the NSA which, ostensibly, reported to DI McCone, rather than to McNamara. It was later determined that the transmission took place before the weapon discharges that night which leads to the conclusion that the transmission refers to the events of the attack the day before, and that, although Destroyers Maddox, and Turner Joy fired hundreds of shells at intermittent radar contacts, they were firing at false returns.

    A CIA analyst's assessment of Vietnam was that the U.S. was "becoming progressively divorced from reality... [and] proceeding with far more courage than wisdom". The CIA had created an exhaustive report, "The Vietnamese Communist's Will to Persist". This created a key flashpoint in the US government, PAVN troop levels,. Was it 500k or more as the CIA believed, or 300k or less as the commanders of US forces in Vietnam believed. The argument went on for months, but Helms finally OK'd a report saying that PAVN troop levels were 299,000 or less. The DOD argument was that whatever the facts on the ground, to publicly admit any higher number could be the last nail in the coffin of the war for vietnam in the press.
    “Chance is perhaps God's pseudonym when He does not want to sign” Anatole France, Le Jardin d'Epicure

  4. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to NotAPretender For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Dreamtimer (29th November 2020), Elen (29th November 2020), Kathy (28th November 2020), Octopus Garden (29th November 2020)

  5. #3
    Senior Member Canada
    Join Date
    30th October 2017
    Posts
    506
    Thanks
    1,681
    Thanked 2,666 Times in 509 Posts
    I watched Roseanne Barr on a Rogan youtube video and she seemed to be either on drugs or she has some kind of neurological glitch. It was a rambling disjointed series of half statements, weird interruptions and I couldn't focus on anything she was saying. So, I don't think she is the best go to person for info. But, I prefer text for certain kinds of information anyway. It's cooler and more objective and easier to check for inconsistencies and fabrications.

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Octopus Garden For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Dreamtimer (29th November 2020), Elen (29th November 2020), Kathy (28th November 2020), NotAPretender (28th November 2020)

  7. #4
    Senior Member Canada
    Join Date
    30th October 2017
    Posts
    506
    Thanks
    1,681
    Thanked 2,666 Times in 509 Posts
    NAP,

    I think Trump will do whatever he feels is good for Trump. He has likely lost support of all covert agencies due to his capricious nature. Nobody knows what to expect--and if you are operating in the shadows, where things are already murky, presidential directives must be clear, concise and ... sane.

    Pro-Trump people have managed to take every apparent non sensical thing that Trump does, turn it into "four dimensional chess. Then people with a covert agenda run with that kind of thinking and create an entire propaganda vehicle of bullshit around those ideas.. If you look up articles in Atlantic monthly about General Flynn and Qanon, it's pretty clear that some faction within the DIA supported Trump, and maybe still do.

  8. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Octopus Garden For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Dreamtimer (29th November 2020), Elen (29th November 2020), Kathy (28th November 2020), NotAPretender (28th November 2020), Wind (28th November 2020)

  9. #5
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Posts
    7,271
    Thanks
    24,424
    Thanked 29,428 Times in 7,200 Posts
    yeah, she seems like the dark side (and much older) of my niece who is a right winger married to a moneybags right winger who has enabled her to become a moneybags in her own right.

    But she is a wonderful person ... can't understand but ... yes, i can but that's a whole 'nuther story.
    “Chance is perhaps God's pseudonym when He does not want to sign” Anatole France, Le Jardin d'Epicure

  10. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to NotAPretender For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Dreamtimer (29th November 2020), Elen (29th November 2020), Kathy (28th November 2020), Octopus Garden (29th November 2020)

  11. #6
    Senior Member Canada
    Join Date
    30th October 2017
    Posts
    506
    Thanks
    1,681
    Thanked 2,666 Times in 509 Posts
    Many wonderful people are pro-Trump. Their core values are the same as those who are pro Bernie Sanders, just coming from the right. I have to say though, both close friends, who are ardent Trump supporters, have almost zero intuition. And I have thought this for years, way before Trump.

  12. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Octopus Garden For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Dreamtimer (29th November 2020), Elen (29th November 2020), Kathy (28th November 2020), NotAPretender (28th November 2020), Wind (28th November 2020)

  13. #7
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Posts
    7,271
    Thanks
    24,424
    Thanked 29,428 Times in 7,200 Posts
    Amen to that...
    “Chance is perhaps God's pseudonym when He does not want to sign” Anatole France, Le Jardin d'Epicure

  14. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to NotAPretender For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Dreamtimer (29th November 2020), Elen (29th November 2020), Kathy (28th November 2020), Octopus Garden (29th November 2020), Wind (29th November 2020)

  15. #8
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    11,784
    Thanks
    61,038
    Thanked 52,046 Times in 11,696 Posts
    Nice people need to be very careful about people who tell them what they want to hear. Nice people can be taken advantage of easily that way. I've seen it happen again and again.

  16. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Elen (29th November 2020), NotAPretender (29th November 2020), Octopus Garden (29th November 2020), Wind (29th November 2020)

  17. #9
    Senior Member Canada
    Join Date
    30th October 2017
    Posts
    506
    Thanks
    1,681
    Thanked 2,666 Times in 509 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Nice people need to be very careful about people who tell them what they want to hear. Nice people can be taken advantage of easily that way. I've seen it happen again and again.
    For sure. I noticed this with the Obama worship as well--though I think he was less destructive, domestically, than Trump would have been, had he managed to pull off a second term. As soon as Obama picked his cabinet, it should have been obvious to those enthralled with him that he was backed by banks. They should have nationalized the banks, covered depositors and let share holders take it on the chin. But noooooo...couldn't disappoint the shareholding elite.

    Then there was Syria and Benghazi. Just what part of Hillary being a monster, didn't Democrats get?

    Obama was smoother and more obviously intelligent, but he was still part of the greater machinery that includes both parties. And...you don't rise to a position of power without catering to the military and the banks in the U.S.

    So plenty of cult love down there.

  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Octopus Garden For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Dreamtimer (30th November 2020), Elen (30th November 2020), NotAPretender (29th November 2020), Wind (29th November 2020)

  19. #10
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th January 2015
    Location
    Just here
    Posts
    2,961
    Thanks
    17,089
    Thanked 14,202 Times in 2,966 Posts
    Ain't that true, but Obama was still too "leftie" for the right-wingers and Neocons, also his skin color was wrong for many of them too.

  20. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Wind For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Dreamtimer (30th November 2020), Elen (30th November 2020), Octopus Garden (29th November 2020)

  21. #11
    Senior Member Canada
    Join Date
    30th October 2017
    Posts
    506
    Thanks
    1,681
    Thanked 2,666 Times in 509 Posts
    That's kind of funny, Wind, because the two parties, in key respects are indistinguishable. Bernie Sanders, AOC and those of what are considered, virtual communists in the U.S. are merely somewhat left of center, judged against other true lefties in Europe and Canada.

  22. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Octopus Garden For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Dreamtimer (30th November 2020), Elen (30th November 2020), NotAPretender (29th November 2020), Wind (29th November 2020)

  23. #12
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Posts
    7,271
    Thanks
    24,424
    Thanked 29,428 Times in 7,200 Posts
    Well, you know I have to disagree. An administration needs bankers to run a bank, they don't want to hire a plumber (though Nixon might have). Trump would hire a game show host. It is the reality that we have to deal with and the reality is that as everyone says Presidents that aren't confirmed authoritarians have limited power to wield. And that limited power only has utility when leveraged against those that have real power and need I say there are not too many true power brokers that are willing to spread the wealth to the left or to anyone else for that matter. Many on the left recognize that, most on the right will never understand it. It's a lose/lose save for those at the top.

    Obama as a hero... most hero worshippers were disenchanted very shortly after he demonstrated that he was going to be the president for everyone not just a chosen few. I was never disenchanted because I was never enchanted. I dispassionately recognized that he was an intelligent, if not brilliant leader that was determined to show us all a better way to live together. Propaganda wins the war every time, he didn't stand a chance. And that's what I see as a very simplified truism. Even the most idealistic of us will at some point realize idealism fails when reality slaps us in the face.

    Obama was a slower study than he should have been, the higher the idealism the greater the reluctance to let it go. I walked across that bridge ... hell, I can't even remember when it was...but it was a long time ago. I would guess it was probably about twenty minutes after my first six-pack of beer.
    “Chance is perhaps God's pseudonym when He does not want to sign” Anatole France, Le Jardin d'Epicure

  24. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to NotAPretender For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Dreamtimer (30th November 2020), Elen (30th November 2020), Octopus Garden (29th November 2020)

  25. #13
    Senior Member Canada
    Join Date
    30th October 2017
    Posts
    506
    Thanks
    1,681
    Thanked 2,666 Times in 509 Posts
    From NPR

    "Looking right now at the tax cuts -- the White House [is] signaling willingness to pre-emptively cave on what is effectively a tax bailout to millionaires," Ruben says. "I think it's profoundly upsetting to people."

    Giving Without Getting?

    Liberals see the president as a bad negotiator, willing to sell the farm for nothing.

    For example, nine months ago he angered environmentalists with a surprise announcement that offshore oil and gas exploration would be expanded.

    He seemed to be giving Republicans a bargaining chip without getting anything in return. Indeed, the energy bill that Obama wanted died in the Senate for lack of Republican support.

    In the health care debate, the White House abandoned a public option without winning any Republican votes for the concession.

    And earlier this week, Obama once again gave Republicans something they wanted, against the wishes of many liberal groups, when he proposed a two-year pay freeze for civilian federal workers.

    At a White House briefing the day of that announcement, Jonathan Weisman of The Wall Street Journal asked spokesman Robert Gibbs about the president's negotiating style.


    https://www.npr.org/2010/12/02/13173...omise-he-caves

    So many people fell for Obama's smooth rhetoric, they didn't bother to take a closer look at what he was actually doing. I believe it was Obama who extended tax cuts for the rich. He also turned his back on universal health care. This is something people of both parties want desperately. It is the number one issue and it isn't being addressed by either party, nor is military spending. Two key issues that are linked. You can't afford universal health care without eating into the military budget.

    Illustrates how a warfare state is preferable to a welfare state. And to Trump supporters who think he's a dove. LOL. That's ridiculous. What was obvious to those who were paying attention, with Obama, has been obscured by the massive Trump con.

  26. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Octopus Garden For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Dreamtimer (30th November 2020), NotAPretender (29th November 2020), Wind (30th November 2020)

  27. #14
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Posts
    7,271
    Thanks
    24,424
    Thanked 29,428 Times in 7,200 Posts
    It was cave or nothing though OG, that is my central point. The economy grew steadily under Obama, it was a reasoned approach in the face of more powerful foe that would take no hostages. It might have been an insignificant twist on an old ploy but he didn't realize even then that he would get no play, no compromise, it was written into the right's mandate. The right knows they have the money power and money is the only thing that matters in a material sodden worldview.

    During the Obama era, it was becoming obvious that despite the downside a global economy meant world peace for those that were able to partake. The 3rd world underbelly of civilization didn't give a flying f*ck about it unless they were able to get their share. One of the things that I pointed out over a year ago is manifesting once again. Everytime there are rumours that the U.S. is going to withdraw from entanglement in the Middle East, the bad guys RAMP UP their efforts to create havoc, not after the withdrawal but BEFORE! There's a reason, keeping 1st world countries engaged is the only way they get a funnel of money.

    It's a horrific mess that has evolved over centuries, and no amount of high mindedness is going to alleviate the situation without a bloody aftermath. Management of the situation is immensely complex and there certainly are no easy answers. We've learned that over the last 30 years. No common dipshit like Trump can do anything but light a fuse to the ambient explosive cauldron.

    The important even critical question is WHY? What thought or rationale is behind the action. As the saying goes, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions". I wonder why? It's because for every honest and good action, there is a devious counter action that hurts everyone but the counter actor. The counter actor is out for self, a selfish, perhaps even psychopathic need to get more, much more than their share. And for the truly psychopathic the more innocent scapegoated individuals that can be eliminated from the win at all costs game, the bigger the rush that results.

    There was hope that those in the middle that were being displaced would find a real life in new and innovative industries. It never got that far because the right wasted all the left's positive energy with their conquer or die mentality
    Last edited by NotAPretender, 30th November 2020 at 00:01.
    “Chance is perhaps God's pseudonym when He does not want to sign” Anatole France, Le Jardin d'Epicure

  28. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to NotAPretender For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Dreamtimer (30th November 2020), Octopus Garden (30th November 2020)

  29. #15
    Senior Member Canada
    Join Date
    30th October 2017
    Posts
    506
    Thanks
    1,681
    Thanked 2,666 Times in 509 Posts
    I hear what you're saying, NAP. But...why don't all the NATO countries step back from the Middle East, except to monitor nuclear installations in Israel and Iran? There's too much of Israeli and Saudi politics tied up in the US. They need to pull out of there and let Israel try to defend itself. And the U.S. and Canada, btw, have to quit sending weapons to Saudi ARabia, in particular.

    The problem, is, of course, weapons production is the only thing that cannot be outsourced from the U.S, so it is their only current large manufacturing base left.

    And yes, of course Obama had to make consessions to the republicans, but I figure it could have been a good cop, bad cop move.

  30. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Octopus Garden For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (30th November 2020), Elen (30th November 2020), NotAPretender (30th November 2020), Wind (30th November 2020)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •