Springer didn't start with the intent of descending into crudity...El Grande should totally identify.Originally posted by Wind
As in all things Orange, it not even once caught my attention. I figured Grande loved him...hence, the hypocoristic 'Jerry'
“El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"
Aragorn (3rd May 2023), Octopus Garden (8th May 2023), Wind (3rd May 2023)
I saw the video about the drunken girl earlier.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3wwmVJnkec
"The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon
Aragorn (8th May 2023), Emil El Zapato (8th May 2023), Octopus Garden (8th May 2023)
That's a drunk's worst nightmare...gawd, a severed leg...
I've recounted the story of this guy I had in one of my math classes as an undergrad. Long story short, this tall, blond, good-looking guy that did ski trips on spring break got into an argument with his girlfriend and took to the road back to campus to resolve things. He plowed into a car full of kids and their parents returning from a 'Just say not to drugs' event. He actually completely sliced their car in half and killed 3 black kids.
Charles was a helluva of a nice guy and suffered the worst fate that could befall someone. In acknowledgement to the good nature of the community they were completely outraged by this tragic accident (It was New Mexico after all) and wanted this kid's blood. He had a good attorney that tried to explain the incident by claiming that things were precipitated by brain damage that the young man had suffered while working during the summer for his father who was a building contractor. It was claimed that Charles had been hit on the head with a brick that summer.
He was up on 17 counts related to alcohol and a very long criminal sentence and there was a legal effort to forego prison time in lieu of doing a public speaking tour decrying the evils of alcohol. The public said no and I left that area before it was completely resolved. I've tried to find follow up stories but haven't been successful.
I've read that alcohol definitely alters personality contrary to what Grande claims (that is viewed as more of a myth than antthing by the science and research community).
Last edited by Emil El Zapato, 8th May 2023 at 09:01.
Aragorn (8th May 2023), Octopus Garden (8th May 2023), Wind (8th May 2023)
Docket Nº No. 15993
Citation 1996 NMCA 24, 121 N.M. 445, 913 P.2d 252
Case Date January 11, 1996
Court Court of Appeals of New Mexico
Page 252
913 P.2d 252
121 N.M. 445
STATE of New Mexico, Plaintiff-Appellee,
v.
Charles LANDGRAF, a/k/a Charles Hargrove, Defendant-Appellant.
No. 15993.
Court of Appeals of New Mexico.
Jan. 11, 1996.
Certiorari Denied Feb. 22, 1996.
Page 255
[121 N.M. 448] Appeal from the District Court of Curry County; Stephen Quinn, District Judge.
Tom Udall, Attorney General, Bill Primm, Assistant Attorney General, Santa Fe, for Plaintiff-Appellee.
Gary C. Mitchell, Gary C. Mitchell, P.C., Ruidoso, for Defendant-Appellant.
OPINION
BLACK, Judge.
¶1 On July 13, 1992, Charles Landgraf (Defendant) drank some beer after work. Early that evening he drove his sports car south on Highway 70 from Clovis toward Portales. A New Mexico State Police Officer clocked Defendant travelling in excess of 100 miles per hour. A high speed chase ensued covering twenty miles and involving numerous law enforcement personnel. A car with six occupants attempted to turn across Highway 70 and collided with Defendant. Three of the occupants of the other vehicle died and Defendant was charged in a seventeen-count criminal information.
¶2 The jury found Defendant guilty of: three counts of vehicular homicide; three counts of evading and eluding a police officer resulting in death; and possession of under one ounce of marijuana. On appeal, Defendant challenges his convictions, arguing the district court erred in: (1) denying a change of venue; (2) refusing a preemptory juror challenge; (3) admitting challenged testimony; (4) aggravating Defendant's sentences; (5) refusing to allow good-time credit for the period preceding trial; and (6) allowing two manslaughter convictions on each death. We affirm the district court on all but Defendant's last issue and remand for resentencing.
I. Facts
¶3 On July 13, 1992, Defendant and a co-worker went from Clovis to Artesia to check on a construction job. On their return, they drank some beer. Shortly after 8:00 p.m., Defendant decided to drive to Portales to see his girlfriend.
¶4 As Defendant drove his sports car southbound on Highway 70, New Mexico State Police Officer Kevin Boyd was travelling northbound. Officer Boyd clocked Defendant's vehicle at 104 miles per hour. He immediately turned his unit around, engaged his lights and pursued Defendant's car. A deputy sheriff joined the pursuit. The highway between Clovis and Portales is a four-lane highway divided by a median. Before reaching Portales, Defendant's car crossed the median, turned around, and headed back toward Clovis. As he approached the intersection of Highway 70 and Diane Street, Defendant changed lanes. Sheila Perkins was driving a car going toward Portales and made a left turn onto Diane Street. She had five passengers. The two cars collided. Three children who were passengers in the car, Cory Johnson, Dontrel Perkins, and Denny Castro, were killed. Sheila Perkins, Sherry Castro, Andrew Johnson, and Defendant all sustained injuries in the accident. Shortly after the accident, Defendant's blood alcohol concentration was determined to be .13 percent.
Page 256
[121 N.M. 449] 5. At trial, Defendant introduced evidence that previously he had suffered spinal and head injuries in an industrial accident. Thereafter, he had massive headaches and had been diagnosed as having a fifty percent whole body impairment. Defendant's trial experts were a neuropsychologist and a psychologist who both testified that these prior head and cervical injuries, combined with the alcohol consumption, made Defendant legally insane on the night of the fatal wreck. The State brought in an expert who disagreed.
6. In addition to the guilty verdicts, the jury found Defendant not guilty on three counts of first degree murder, assault with the intent to commit a violent felony upon an officer, and great bodily injury by motor vehicle.
II. The District Court Did Not Abuse Its Discretion in Denying a Change of Venue
7. Prior to trial, Defendant moved for a change of venue and provided the court a random selection survey of local attitudes toward Defendant and the trial. The district court denied Defendant's motion. Recognizing the holding of State v. Chamberlain, 112 N.M. 723, 819 P.2d 673 (1991), Defendant concedes "that the Trial Court has broad discretion in ruling on motions to change venue and the Appellate Courts will not disturb its decision absent a showing of an abuse of that discretion." The burden to show this abuse of discretion lies with the appellant. Id. at 726, 819 P.2d at 676.
8. Defendant cites this Court to no evidence in the record to substantiate his claim that the district court abused its discretion, but argues generally that the survey as well as later voir dire "showed there was extensive knowledge of the case and opinions thereof by the people in the community." Proof of exposure of venire members to publicity about a case does not establish a presumption of prejudice. Id.; see also Deats v. State, 80 N.M. 77, 80, 451 P.2d 981, 984 (1969) (extensive pretrial publicity by itself does not necessarily establish prejudice). Rather, Defendant must prove that the jurors had "such fixed opinions that they could not judge impartially the guilt of the defendant." State v. Hernandez, 115 N.M. 6, 21, 846 P.2d 312, 327 (1993) (punctuation and citation omitted). This he did not do. In short, nothing in Defendant's argument convinces us the district court acted unfairly and committed a palpable abuse of discretion. See State v. Rushing, 85 N.M. 540, 545, 514 P.2d 297, 302 (1973).
III. The District Court Properly Denied Defendant's Peremptory Juror Challenge
9. Several of the accident victims were black and Defendant is not. Defendant argues the district court erred in refusing to honor his peremptory challenge of a black juror. When such a challenge is raised by any party the trial court must engage in a three-step analysis. Purkett v. Elem, --- U.S. ----, ---- - ----, 115 S.Ct. 1769, 1770-71, 131 L.Ed.2d 834 (1995). First, the opponent of a peremptory challenge must make out a prima facie case that the challenge shows racial discrimination. The proponent of the peremptory strike must then come forward with a race-neutral explanation. If such a race-neutral explanation is tendered, the trial court must decide whether the opponent of the peremptory challenge has proved purposeful racial discrimination. Id.
10. Here, the prosecutor made out a prima facie case of racial discrimination. He showed that there were three potential jurors who were black and that Defendant's counsel had already stricken a black woman. The prosecutor then pointed out that defense counsel also struck the juror at issue, a black male. After the prosecutor objected based on this showing, the district court asked defense counsel his reasons for striking the black juror. Defense counsel tendered the race-neutral explanation that he perceived an educational deficit that would likely cause the potential juror to have difficulty understanding Defendant's medical testimony.
11. Based on the tendered explanation, the district court did not abuse its discretion in finding purposeful discrimination. The trial court is not required to accept tendered race-neutral explanations at face value, but should scrutinize them to insure
Page 257
[121 N.M. 450] that purposeful discrimination is not taking place. See State v. Guzman, 119 N.M. 190, 194, 889 P.2d 225, 229 (Ct.App.1994) (race-neutral explanations should not be accepted when facts show same factors used to strike Hispanics were not applied to Anglos), cert. denied, 119 N.M. 20, 888 P.2d 466 (1995).
IV. Admissibility of Evidence
A. Testimony Regarding the Accident Scene
12. Defendant argues that because it was never disputed that the accident produced very serious injuries and that heroic efforts were required to extricate the victims from the wreckage, it was error to admit any testimony regarding those subjects. Defendant maintains such evidence was not relevant under SCRA 1986, 11-401 (Repl.1994) (Rule 401) and, even if it was relevant, it should have been excluded as more prejudicial than probative under SCRA 1986, 11-403 (Repl.1994) (Rule 403).
13. As a predicate for depraved mind murder in this case the State had to prove Defendant drove at a high rate of speed, struck the victims, and caused their deaths. The State was also required to prove that Defendant committed an act which was "greatly dangerous to the lives of others, indicating a depraved mind regardless of human life" and that Defendant knew "such acts create[d] a strong probability of death or great bodily harm." NMSA 1978, § 30-2-1 (Repl.Pamp.1994). Evidence showing the natural consequences and actual results of Defendant's actions was admissible as proof of the elements for depraved mind murder. State v. Johnson, 103 N.M. 364, 369, 707 P.2d 1174, 1179 (Ct.App.) ("depraved mind murder is defined primarily by its consequences"), cert. quashed, 103 N.M. 344, 707 P.2d 552 (1985). The extent of the wreck and the heroic efforts required of rescuers to deal with the devastation were offered as proof of the consequences of the charged offense.
14. Evidence is relevant if it has "any tendency to make the existence of any fact that is of consequence to the determination of the action more probable or less probable than it would be without the evidence." SCRA 11-401. The havoc caused by Defendant's operation of his vehicle make it more probable such acts were "greatly dangerous to the lives of others." Section 30-2-1(A)(3). The trial court had discretion to determine that the probative value of this evidence was not "substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice." SCRA 11-403; see also Chamberlain, 112 N.M. at 726, 819 P.2d at 676.
B. Officers' Testimony
Aragorn (8th May 2023), Octopus Garden (8th May 2023), Wind (8th May 2023)
But then again, anyone who gets behind the wheel of their car after hitting the booze deserves such a nightmare. And then maybe — just maybe — they'll think twice about their irresponsible behavior. Or at least, if they still have enough brain cells left to contemplate their attitude, because alcohol does destroy your brain cells.
How do you think the owner of that severed leg would feel, provided that they're even still alive?
I've been made fun of at several cafés I frequented over the years by people who were egging me on to drink alcohol, because I was known to always and only order fresh drinks and coffee. See, I was "too uptight" for not drinking alcohol, and I "wasn't a real man." And then later on, those very same people who had been egging me on would be begging me to give them a ride home, because they had once again lost their driver's license for driving under the influence and/or wrecked their car under the same conditions. And then they were still very lucky, because every time they wrecked their cars, it was without anyone getting hurt — other than their egos.
My previous car was hit by a drunk driver when it wasn't even two months old. He was speeding and he was ignoring my right of way, as well as the traffic sign stating that vehicles coming from the right had the right of way. He smacked right into the left flank of my car, just behind my driver's door. My car spun around 90° to the left from the force of the impact. A fraction of a second sooner and I would have been seriously injured.
It was — from my vantage at the time, because this was 24 years ago and thus I was still only 36 years old — an "elderly" couple. They were in their late 60s and they were coming from a party. Their own vehicle was disabled in the crash — their radiator was completely gone; all of their engine coolant had splashed out on the ground on the spot. They were also in no shape to fill out the damage report for the insurance, so I was kind enough to first help them push their car onto a parking lot — or maybe I towed them, I don't remember — and then give them a ride back to the party, because their insurance broker was also at the party, and then he and I filled out the paperwork together.
The story doesn't end there, because there were also issues with the expert the insurance company sent over to assess the damage to my car, but that's another chapter altogether. But the couple got off very well, because by the same token, I could have insisted on calling in the police — it actually happened only about 50 meters away from the then-police station at the time — to have them assess the damage and determine the culpability, but I chose the diplomatic way out by not doing so and filling out the paperwork with their insurance broker, not to mention helping them get their incapacitated vehicle off the road and driving them back to the party, so that their son or son-in-law — I forgot which of the two it was, but it was his party — could give them a ride home later.
We have a saying over here that a drunk always has a special guardian angel watching over them, and I guess there must be some truth to that, because most of the time when a drunk causes a traffic accident, they're the ones who get away with it unscathed, unlike the people who fall victim to the drunken driver's irresponsible behavior.
When I was in my senior year of high school, I was at a gig by a band from our school — well, except for the drummer, because their drummer was a girl, and our school was boys-only. There was a guy there — a mutual friend of myself and the band members — who, after the gig, was hit off his bicycle by a drunken driver and dragged along for at least 100 meters before the drunk stopped his car. My friend was in a coma for about a month, albeit that he did recover well afterwards.
Or how about this one? Back in the early 1990s, I had gone out to a club/discotheque, and my cousin's ex-girlfriend was there. She would often go there, and I would often have a chat with her, albeit that I did not talk to her that night, even though I had noticed her among the crowd. At some point, I had enough of the awful music they were playing and I decided to go home.
As I drove my car off of the club's parking lot, there was a huge crowd standing on the road in front of the club, but in the opposite direction of where I was headed. I instantly knew there had been an accident, and I caught a glimpse of one car. But that sort of thing was not uncommon there — the entry/exit to the club's parking lot is right in the middle of a slight bend in the road — so I drove home. A few days later, I read about the accident in the paper. It was my cousin's ex-girlfriend, whose car had been hit side-on at very high speed just as she was exiting the parking lot. She was instantly killed — when I spoke to some of the witnesses the week after, they described the horrible image of the girl's head being turned 180° backwards — but her 16-year-old sister who was in the backseat was (physically) unharmed.
My cousin's ex-girlfriend had not been drinking, because she was a teetotaler. She was a very active and capable young woman — 27 years old when she died — and she was into gymnastics. She was also quite attractive. The car that had ended her young life had been carrying four French people, driver included, all drunk, and coming straight from one of the mega-discos about 15 to 20 km farther west. They were ostensibly speeding, because the police report stated an estimated speed of about 110 km/h at the moment of impact while there was a 70 km/h speed limit on that road at the time — I think it's 50 km/h nowadays. And of course, the four French people were physically unharmed, albeit that their vehicle was of course totaled.
I can tell you even more true stories like that, like for instance of one of my ex-girlfriends — well, technically, I only had a one-night stand with her, but we used to be friends at the time — who wrecked her own brand-new car — luckily, without causing any harm or damage to anyone else — on the same day that she got it. She took reception of her new car on Saturday morning, and in the night following that very same Saturday, she had been drinking so many cocktails that she lost control of her car and drove straight into a ditch.
I was following behind her — we had briefly been to the same venue — but when we both decided to go to our respective homes, she took off quite fast and had already vanished from my view within seconds. And then I turned around the corner only about a minute later, and there she was, her car stuck in a ditch. I stopped and yanked her out of her car, because the airbags had gone off and I saw smoke inside the cabin — it was from the popping of the airbags, but I mistook it for a short-circuit and a potential fire. In a panic and afraid of what her mother might say, she then begged me to tow her car out of the ditch. I tried, but the engine in my car wasn't powerful enough and my tires lost grip. A passing driver with a heavier and diesel-powered car also tried, but he had no luck either.
Still in a panic, the girl also fell on her ass in the ditch, and then she had to put on another skirt — for some reason, she had a set of clothes in the trunk of her car — while standing there in a ditch in the middle of the night. I even gave her a ride later to the house of a guy — himself a drug addict — whom she had been sleeping with on and off, and I had to ring the guy out of bed. She spent the night there, and from what she told me later, the damage to her brand-new car amounted to — at the time — over €2'500. This was in 1995, so counting in inflation, you can easily double or even triple that amount by now. Let's just say that it was about a quarter of the value of her car when it was new — it was a Ford Fiesta, I think with a 1.1-liter petrol/gasoline engine.
So yeah, anyone who willingly gets behind the wheel of a car while intoxicated — and for the last 30 years or so, it's not just booze but frequently also a combination of booze and drugs, and the alcohol in their blood doesn't exactly come from simple beer or wine either, because "cocktail" is the magic word — deserves a good nightmare or two about severed limbs and severed heads amidst automotive debris. Because they're assholes.
= DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =
Emil El Zapato (8th May 2023), Octopus Garden (8th May 2023), Wind (8th May 2023)
Well, what you did for all of them was pretty big-hearted and yeah, you're right. I was lucky that I didn't kill myself or someone else in my day. I'm hearing you, for sure. I actually frighten myself sometimes thinking back to those days. I actually wrecked a car the day I bought it (from a friend), we were in the car. It was an icy road and alcohol wasn't really that big of factor but there is no doubt it contributed to my losing control and smashing into a concrete railroad bridge. The only accident I ever had while drinking with alcohol. But I do count my lucky stars.But then again, anyone who gets behind the wheel of their car after hitting the booze deserves such a nightmare. And then maybe — just maybe — they'll think twice about their irresponsible behavior. Or at least, if they still have enough brain cells left to contemplate their attitude, because alcohol does destroy your brain cells.
How do you think the owner of that severed leg would feel, provided that they're even still alive?
I've been made fun of at several cafés I frequented over the years by people who were egging me on to drink alcohol, because I was known to always and only order fresh drinks and coffee. See, I was "too uptight" for not drinking alcohol, and I "wasn't a real man." And then later on, those very same people who had been egging me on would be begging me to give them a ride home, because they had once again lost their driver's license for driving under the influence and/or wrecked their car under the same conditions. And then they were still very lucky, because every time they wrecked their cars, it was without anyone getting hurt — other than their egos.
My previous car was hit by a drunk driver when it wasn't even two months old. He was speeding and he was ignoring my right of way, as well as the traffic sign stating that vehicles coming from the right had the right of way. He smacked right into the left flank of my car, just behind my driver's door. My car spun around 90° to the left from the force of the impact. A fraction of a second sooner and I would have been seriously injured.
It was — from my vantage at the time, because this was 24 years ago and thus I was still only 36 years old — an "elderly" couple. They were in their late 60s and they were coming from a party. Their own vehicle was disabled in the crash — their radiator was completely gone; all of their engine coolant had splashed out on the ground on the spot. They were also in no shape to fill out the damage report for the insurance, so I was kind enough to first help them push their car onto a parking lot — or maybe I towed them, I don't remember — and then give them a ride back to the party, because their insurance broker was also at the party, and then he and I filled out the paperwork together.
The story doesn't end there, because there were also issues with the expert the insurance company sent over to assess the damage to my car, but that's another chapter altogether. But the couple got off very well, because by the same token, I could have insisted on calling in the police — it actually happened only about 50 meters away from the then-police station at the time — to have them assess the damage and determine the culpability, but I chose the diplomatic way out by not doing so and filling out the paperwork with their insurance broker, not to mention helping them get their incapacitated vehicle off the road and driving them back to the party, so that their son or son-in-law — I forgot which of the two it was, but it was his party — could give them a ride home later.
We have a saying over here that a drunk always has a special guardian angel watching over them, and I guess there must be some truth to that, because most of the time when a drunk causes a traffic accident, they're the ones who get away with it unscathed, unlike the people who fall victim to the drunken driver's irresponsible behavior.
When I was in my senior year of high school, I was at a gig by a band from our school — well, except for the drummer, because their drummer was a girl, and our school was boys-only. There was a guy there — a mutual friend of myself and the band members — who, after the gig, was hit off his bicycle by a drunken driver and dragged along for at least 100 meters before the drunk stopped his car. My friend was in a coma for about a month, albeit that he did recover well afterwards.
Or how about this one? Back in the early 1990s, I had gone out to a club/discotheque, and my cousin's ex-girlfriend was there. She would often go there, and I would often have a chat with her, albeit that I did not talk to her that night, even though I had noticed her among the crowd. At some point, I had enough of the awful music they were playing and I decided to go home.
As I drove my car off of the club's parking lot, there was a huge crowd standing on the road in front of the club, but in the opposite direction of where I was headed. I instantly knew there had been an accident, and I caught a glimpse of one car. But that sort of thing was not uncommon there — the entry/exit to the club's parking lot is right in the middle of a slight bend in the road — so I drove home. A few days later, I read about the accident in the paper. It was my cousin's ex-girlfriend, whose car had been hit side-on at very high speed just as she was exiting the parking lot. She was instantly killed — when I spoke to some of the witnesses the week after, they described the horrible image of the girl's head being turned 180° backwards — but her 16-year-old sister who was in the backseat was (physically) unharmed.
My cousin's ex-girlfriend had not been drinking, because she was a teetotaler. She was a very active and capable young woman — 27 years old when she died — and she was into gymnastics. She was also quite attractive. The car that had ended her young life had been carrying four French people, driver included, all drunk, and coming straight from one of the mega-discos about 15 to 20 km farther west. They were ostensibly speeding, because the police report stated an estimated speed of about 110 km/h at the moment of impact while there was a 70 km/h speed limit on that road at the time — I think it's 50 km/h nowadays. And of course, the four French people were physically unharmed, albeit that their vehicle was of course totaled.
I can tell you even more true stories like that, like for instance of one of my ex-girlfriends — well, technically, I only had a one-night stand with her, but we used to be friends at the time — who wrecked her own brand-new car — luckily, without causing any harm or damage to anyone else — on the same day that she got it. She took reception of her new car on Saturday morning, and in the night following that very same Saturday, she had been drinking so many cocktails that she lost control of her car and drove straight into a ditch.
I was following behind her — we had briefly been to the same venue — but when we both decided to go to our respective homes, she took off quite fast and had already vanished from my view within seconds. And then I turned around the corner only about a minute later, and there she was, her car stuck in a ditch. I stopped and yanked her out of her car, because the airbags had gone off and I saw smoke inside the cabin — it was from the popping of the airbags, but I mistook it for a short-circuit and a potential fire. In a panic and afraid of what her mother might say, she then begged me to tow her car out of the ditch. I tried, but the engine in my car wasn't powerful enough and my tires lost grip. A passing driver with a heavier and diesel-powered car also tried, but he had no luck either.
Still in a panic, the girl also fell on her ass in the ditch, and then she had to put on another skirt — for some reason, she had a set of clothes in the trunk of her car — while standing there in a ditch in the middle of the night. I even gave her a ride later to the house of a guy — himself a drug addict — whom she had been sleeping with on and off, and I had to ring the guy out of bed. She spent the night there, and from what she told me later, the damage to her brand-new car amounted to — at the time — over €2'500. This was in 1995, so counting in inflation, you can easily double or even triple that amount by now. Let's just say that it was about a quarter of the value of her car when it was new — it was a Ford Fiesta, I think with a 1.1-liter petrol/gasoline engine.
So yeah, anyone who willingly gets behind the wheel of a car while intoxicated — and for the last 30 years or so, it's not just booze but frequently also a combination of booze and drugs, and the alcohol in their blood doesn't exactly come from simple beer or wine either, because "cocktail" is the magic word — deserves a good nightmare or two about severed limbs and severed heads amidst automotive debris. Because they're assholes.
Aragorn (8th May 2023), Octopus Garden (8th May 2023), Wind (8th May 2023)
"The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon
Aragorn (21st May 2023), Emil El Zapato (21st May 2023), Octopus Garden (24th May 2023)
300 ft. that's miraculous
Biting tongue...a shrink would call it practice.
Last edited by Emil El Zapato, 21st May 2023 at 10:07.
Aragorn (21st May 2023), Octopus Garden (24th May 2023), Wind (21st May 2023)
"The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon
Aragorn (14th June 2023), Octopus Garden (14th June 2023)
"Vapid Hearsay" by someone highly qualified, mandated by congress to figure out what's going on and who risks jail time if he's lying. Sure. Sure.
Aragorn (14th June 2023), Emil El Zapato (14th June 2023), Wind (14th June 2023)
Dr. Grande was called out heavily in his comment section.
"The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon
Aragorn (14th June 2023), Emil El Zapato (14th June 2023), Octopus Garden (16th June 2023)
Crushed to death in a tin can at the bottom of an ocean for 250k. Once in a lifetime experience for sure.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYJZ_oJdNX0
"The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon
Aragorn (22nd June 2023), Emil El Zapato (22nd June 2023), Fred Steeves (22nd June 2023)
Well, I fully agree with Grande that this was the utmost arrogance, as well as decadence. USD $250'000 and risking your life just so you could brag about having visited the mass grave of over 1'000 people who died in the early 20th century.
Mind you, I'm not saying these people in the submersible deserved to die. But they were decadently arrogant in taking a completely unnecessary risk, and now they've paid for it dearly. More noble people have died with far less media attention given to them, if any at all.
So, while it is regrettable that these "explorers" have died, I for one am not going to be losing one minute's sleep over it. Stupid idiots, is all I can say.
= DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =
Emil El Zapato (22nd June 2023), Fred Steeves (22nd June 2023), Wind (22nd June 2023)
My thoughts too.Well, I fully agree with Grande that this was the utmost arrogance, as well as decadence. USD $250'000 and risking your life just so you could brag about having visited the mass grave of over 1'000 people who died in the early 20th century.
Mind you, I'm not saying these people in the submersible deserved to die. But they were decadently arrogant in taking a completely unnecessary risk, and now they've paid for it dearly. More noble people have died with far less media attention given to them, if any at all.
So, while it is regrettable that these "explorers" have died, I for one am not going to be losing one minute's sleep over it. Stupid idiots, is all I can say.
"The more I see, the less I know for sure." ~ John Lennon
Aragorn (22nd June 2023), Fred Steeves (22nd June 2023)
Well, it's official now. Debris from the submersible has been found.Well, I fully agree with Grande that this was the utmost arrogance, as well as decadence. USD $250'000 and risking your life just so you could brag about having visited the mass grave of over 1'000 people who died in the early 20th century.
Mind you, I'm not saying these people in the submersible deserved to die. But they were decadently arrogant in taking a completely unnecessary risk, and now they've paid for it dearly. More noble people have died with far less media attention given to them, if any at all.
So, while it is regrettable that these "explorers" have died, I for one am not going to be losing one minute's sleep over it. Stupid idiots, is all I can say.
= DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =
Fred Steeves (22nd June 2023), Wind (22nd June 2023)
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