Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Time and Entheogens

  1. #1
    Senior Member Canada
    Join Date
    30th October 2017
    Posts
    295
    Thanks
    965
    Thanked 1,603 Times in 298 Posts

    Time and Entheogens

    I was thinking about how time is perceived as linear and whether it is part of an over arching mental phenomenon that records everything in sequence. It's not an artefact of the modern age, it's an inescapable effect of being an ambulatory being who is either predator or prey. We run in sequence, one foot after the other to escape predation. We hunt, as predator, in the same way.

    Our greatest achievement, from a survival perspective, was evolving the ability to aim and fire (sadly!) and this started with picking up a stick and throwing it and hitting a target. There can be nothing more effective than weaponry to reinforce the notion that life occurs in straight, sequential lines. Meaning itself is constructed out of narratives where events may parallel and intersect, but there is the same straight line trajectory. This further entrenches a sense of time as linear-- past, present and future.

    But here is the thing. Any being that can't throw, run away from, or run toward will not necessarily be subject to the same mental constructs. Plants, for example, provided they are conscious, will not necessarily experience time in the same way, or even have a concept of time.

    When people take entheogenic plants, they DO seem to participate in a dimension that they find hard to describe. I wonder if part of that involves participating in a non linear timeless space that plants themselves experience. This would help to explain why meaning, as we know it, dissolves. It would also help to explain why so many people find, particularly the dmt experience as being impossible to describe.

    I feel like a stoner here, but I'm not. I did take lsd a few times when I was younger and credit it with prying open my mind and thus saving my life.

    Anyway my thoughts on time and how it relates to meaning, and how plants relate to both. I hope this doesn't seem too crazy.

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Octopus Garden For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (5th August 2020), Dreamtimer (5th August 2020), Elen (5th August 2020), NotAPretender (5th August 2020), Wind (5th August 2020)

  3. #2
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th January 2015
    Location
    Just here
    Posts
    2,375
    Thanks
    14,128
    Thanked 11,797 Times in 2,379 Posts
    Time is a very Earthly, human concept.

    The DMT phenomenon is a very interesting one.

    This video features Shaman, Patricio Dominguez, as interviewed by the producers of the documentary, The Spirit Molecule.

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Wind For This Useful Post:

    Dreamtimer (5th August 2020), Elen (5th August 2020), NotAPretender (5th August 2020), Octopus Garden (5th August 2020)

  5. #3
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Posts
    6,066
    Thanks
    21,470
    Thanked 25,204 Times in 6,023 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by Octopus Garden View Post
    I was thinking about how time is perceived as linear and whether it is part of an over arching mental phenomenon that records everything in sequence. It's not an artefact of the modern age, it's an inescapable effect of being an ambulatory being who is either predator or prey. We run in sequence, one foot after the other to escape predation. We hunt, as predator, in the same way.

    Our greatest achievement, from a survival perspective, was evolving the ability to aim and fire (sadly!) and this started with picking up a stick and throwing it and hitting a target. There can be nothing more effective than weaponry to reinforce the notion that life occurs in straight, sequential lines. Meaning itself is constructed out of narratives where events may parallel and intersect, but there is the same straight line trajectory. This further entrenches a sense of time as linear-- past, present and future.

    But here is the thing. Any being that can't throw, run away from, or run toward will not necessarily be subject to the same mental constructs. Plants, for example, provided they are conscious, will not necessarily experience time in the same way, or even have a concept of time.

    When people take entheogenic plants, they DO seem to participate in a dimension that they find hard to describe. I wonder if part of that involves participating in a non linear timeless space that plants themselves experience. This would help to explain why meaning, as we know it, dissolves. It would also help to explain why so many people find, particularly the dmt experience as being impossible to describe.

    I feel like a stoner here, but I'm not. I did take lsd a few times when I was younger and credit it with prying open my mind and thus saving my life.

    Anyway my thoughts on time and how it relates to meaning, and how plants relate to both. I hope this doesn't seem too crazy.
    Here is an example that likely not provide any insight ... Light when creating a reflection of a solid object in water does not follow a path strictly mandated by physical laws (hence the weird effect of things in water) what it does is make a 'decision' on what is the most 'efficient' path to return the light to the eye. It doesn't follow a linear path because the massaging of the path calculations decides it better to do it another way.
    “If you cannot do great things, do small things in a great way.”

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to NotAPretender For This Useful Post:

    Dreamtimer (5th August 2020), Elen (5th August 2020), Octopus Garden (5th August 2020), Wind (5th August 2020)

  7. #4
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    10,907
    Thanks
    58,325
    Thanked 48,503 Times in 10,824 Posts
    In dreams there is no time limitation. You can move forward or backwards in time. It's likely similar to what is often called astral travel.

    So you can dream about the future, or the past, even other lives.

    Dreaming about the future can be confusing because you haven't had certain experiences yet, haven't met certain people yet, haven't done or thought certain things yet.

    I have had some weird dreams which later made perfect sense once I physically reached the point in time which I had dreamt of before.

    No drugs were involved.

  8. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (6th August 2020), Elen (6th August 2020), NotAPretender (5th August 2020), Octopus Garden (5th August 2020), Wind (5th August 2020)

  9. #5
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    10,907
    Thanks
    58,325
    Thanked 48,503 Times in 10,824 Posts
    Thanks for the video, Wind. It's very good.

  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (6th August 2020), Elen (6th August 2020), NotAPretender (5th August 2020), Wind (5th August 2020)

  11. #6
    Senior Member Canada
    Join Date
    30th October 2017
    Posts
    295
    Thanks
    965
    Thanked 1,603 Times in 298 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Here is an example that likely not provide any insight ... Light when creating a reflection of a solid object in water does not follow a path strictly mandated by physical laws (hence the weird effect of things in water) what it does is make a 'decision' on what is the most 'efficient' path to return the light to the eye. It doesn't follow a linear path because the massaging of the path calculations decides it better to do it another way.
    Thanks NAP,

    Photons may be the only moving particles that are not subject to the same constraints of time and space as the rest. That would make them more amenable to suggestion and non locality? Just a guess from someone who is not educated in these areas, either formally or informally. I find anything with regards math and physics, next to impossible to grasp. I have ideas that are kind of intuitive about the nature of reality, but intuition is pretty useless without logic.
    Makes me feel like "far out girl."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-19glhdmik
    Last edited by Octopus Garden, 5th August 2020 at 22:16.

  12. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Octopus Garden For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (6th August 2020), Dreamtimer (8th August 2020), Elen (6th August 2020), NotAPretender (5th August 2020), Wind (6th August 2020)

  13. #7
    Senior Member Canada
    Join Date
    30th October 2017
    Posts
    295
    Thanks
    965
    Thanked 1,603 Times in 298 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    In dreams there is no time limitation. You can move forward or backwards in time. It's likely similar to what is often called astral travel.

    So you can dream about the future, or the past, even other lives.

    Dreaming about the future can be confusing because you haven't had certain experiences yet, haven't met certain people yet, haven't done or thought certain things yet.

    I have had some weird dreams which later made perfect sense once I physically reached the point in time which I had dreamt of before.

    No drugs were involved.
    So interesting. Yes. When people speak of being in a simulation, using simulation literally rather than metaphorically, I feel they may be barking up the wrong tree, using the latest innovation in tech to explain life.

    It has happened before...having access to more than one tv channel, allowed us to think in terms of paralleling realities, but nobody suggested the universe was in reality a large television. It was just a valuable metaphor.

    Before that, the age of steam, informed the burgeoning field of psychology, with its ideas of repression, and pressure release valves and "blowing up" under stress, etc...We still use these terms today.

    I feel that dreams represent the multiverse and alternative realities, much better than computer simulations. Dreams are fully organic. Computer simulations are not. This may be part of a great deception, and it may even be promulgated by silicon based entities from elsewhere, for some ultimate purpose. That sounds crazy. But...life today is totally crazy, so...it's all good!

    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Time is a very Earthly, human concept.

    The DMT phenomenon is a very interesting one.



    Wind, Thanks so much for posting that. I have watched it 4 times, in the past, but will likely watch it again. The dmt experience isn't even dream like or like other altered states, as it completely dissolves meaning, as we know it. So a lack of time is probably a better way of expressing what happens there. We are unable to describe that as all our communications are based on meaning, which is extruded through the meaning/time pipe we are limited to.

    It is something that has to be experienced. It cannot be expressed with a high degree of accuracy at all.
    Last edited by Octopus Garden, 5th August 2020 at 22:18.

  14. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Octopus Garden For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (6th August 2020), Dreamtimer (8th August 2020), Elen (6th August 2020), NotAPretender (6th August 2020), Wind (6th August 2020)

  15. #8
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Posts
    6,066
    Thanks
    21,470
    Thanked 25,204 Times in 6,023 Posts
    Hi OG,

    do what I have always done with math and science...

    I just use my intuition to understand the connections from one concept to the other and then make up the rest. It actually works sometimes ... . And when it doesn't the opposite sex gets a good laugh out of it, at least. The same sex folks have very little appreciation of the irony.
    “If you cannot do great things, do small things in a great way.”

  16. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to NotAPretender For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (6th August 2020), Dreamtimer (8th August 2020), Elen (6th August 2020), Octopus Garden (5th August 2020), Wind (6th August 2020)

  17. #9
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th January 2015
    Location
    Just here
    Posts
    2,375
    Thanks
    14,128
    Thanked 11,797 Times in 2,379 Posts
    I hope that in my next life I can understand math and physics better than I do now. I appreciate folks who have a knack for those sciences as I think that they have interestingly intricate minds to understand all that mechanical stuff. I have a hard time wrapping my mind around such information.

    Quote Originally posted by Octopus Garden View Post
    It is something that has to be experienced. It cannot be expressed with a high degree of accuracy at all.
    True. I find the likes of Ayahuasca and such interesting as they have DMT as an active component and that stuff is extremely potent. I hate to use the term ”drug”, perhaps a plant medicine would be better to describe them. It seems that smoking pure DMT literally can blow your mind though so it’s on a whole new level.

    Here’s the full documentary about DMT, the Spirit Molecule. It’s certainly well worth the watch.

    Last edited by Wind, 6th August 2020 at 03:36.

  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Wind For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (6th August 2020), Dreamtimer (8th August 2020), Elen (6th August 2020), NotAPretender (6th August 2020), Octopus Garden (6th August 2020)

  19. #10
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2015
    Location
    Middle-Earth
    Posts
    15,388
    Thanks
    69,133
    Thanked 64,605 Times in 15,383 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    I hope that in my next life I can understand math and physics better than I do now.
    What, you mean you're coming back? Here? Are you nuts?
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Aragorn For This Useful Post:

    Dreamtimer (8th August 2020), Wind (7th August 2020)

  21. #11
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Posts
    6,066
    Thanks
    21,470
    Thanked 25,204 Times in 6,023 Posts
    organics ...
    “If you cannot do great things, do small things in a great way.”

  22. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to NotAPretender For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (6th August 2020), Dreamtimer (8th August 2020), Elen (7th August 2020), Wind (7th August 2020)

  23. #12
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th January 2015
    Location
    Just here
    Posts
    2,375
    Thanks
    14,128
    Thanked 11,797 Times in 2,379 Posts
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    What, you mean you're coming back? Here? Are you nuts?
    I hope I won't have to come back here! I might be a little bit nuts, but I'm not that crazy!

  24. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Wind For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (7th August 2020), Dreamtimer (8th August 2020), Elen (7th August 2020)

  25. #13
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    10,907
    Thanks
    58,325
    Thanked 48,503 Times in 10,824 Posts
    I laughed at the end of the video when Patricio talked about having the opportunity to reshape the universe and he was so nostalgic that he just made it exactly like it was.

    "I created the same stupid world that I left because I missed it!"


    I feel like all of us would discover what god we were.

  26. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (8th August 2020), Elen (9th August 2020), Wind (8th August 2020)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •