Jordan Peterson

**Catsquotl** · 18th June 2020, 13:19

As usual I only here about people like him very late in the game.
But I took some time to watch some of his presentations, interviews and one debate where which Steven Fry seemed to be in his corner.

I must say I am intrigued by some of his rhetoric, but at the same time I do get an icky feeling..
Anyone want to help me pick apart some of the ideas he is propagating?

At the very least they need some deeper thought.

With Love

**Emil El Zapato** · 18th June 2020, 14:00

... I will. His ideas for the most part I consider specious and lacking in true intellectual depth. They are valid in essence, but that icky feeling of yours is right on the money. He wants to blame social progressives for the ongoing disorder in our society. His mind is clipped, like so much of the propaganda that we see. He needs to grow a real mind, if he wants to hang out with the biggies... Case, in point, Ken Wilber. Wilber, covers ALL the bases in social expositions unlike Peterson.

Political Correctness moment: This is just my opinion...

After the fact, it occurred to me that a better description of his style would be 'sophistry'

**Chris** · 18th June 2020, 14:00

He has some great ideas, but he is also a deeply depressed and miserable person, who almost died recently because of his addictions to various pharmaceuticals. I don't get though why he is so controversial in liberal circles, he talks simple common sense in my mind.

**Emil El Zapato** · 18th June 2020, 14:11

Sophistry is the word:

soph·ist·ry
/ˈsäfəstrē/

noun
the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.
"trying to argue that I had benefited in any way from the disaster was pure sophistry"
a fallacious argument.
plural noun: sophistries

It's interesting that he has had trouble...Hate to say it, but he asked for it...old fashioned Karma

**Catsquotl** · 18th June 2020, 14:25

Thank you, I've just downloaded his 12 rules for life. Books tend to give me a bit more distance for contemplation.

For now I am looking for the sweet spot between the validity of his arguments and the way his ideas could become equally dangerous as the anti-communist examples he is using.
The idea of rewarding the (subjective) good and punishing the (subjective) evil comes to mind.

That said the current destruction of angry BLM mobs do have me worried.
I support the idea of reserving space for grief and anger of the "oppressed" black community. At the same time the white privilege and equilitarian speech mandates which may or may not be valid has me questioning my self worth as well.

**Emil El Zapato** · 18th June 2020, 14:35

Hi Cats,

It is most assuredly a tightrope walk...it has me worried...perhaps in the end we will be closer to the ideal...balance.

**Cearna** · 18th June 2020, 15:10

OK I'll bite, who is he? I'm on the other side of the world, and we don't get all that much of the kind of thing like this, we tend to do our own kind of social what ever, none of it much good, except on our ABC (Australian broadcasting commission- which is a bit like the BBC).

I've had someone in my mind (because I hear other than ordinary hearing something like ESP. They threatened to kill me, if I came on TOT or used the computer, to find out What was going on in the world. Some story about you are not to know what is to know, or own what is to own (especially seemingly all the topics I have written on on TOT), or write anything whatsoever on anything whatsoever.

So I'm woefully ignorant now, because I just recently decided to hell with you I need to live, and with some purpose. So catch me up, if you don't mind. We colonials are so not to own you know.

**Elen** · 18th June 2020, 15:34

Originally posted by Cearna

OK I'll bite, who is he? I'm on the other side of the world, and we don't get all that much of the kind of thing like this, we tend to do our own kind of social what ever, none of it much good, except on our ABC (Australian broadcasting commission- which is a bit like the BBC).

I've had someone in my mind (because I hear other than ordinary hearing something like ESP. They threatened to kill me, if I came on TOT or used the computer, to find out What was going on in the world. Some story about you are not to know what is to know, or own what is to own (especially seemingly all the topics I have written on on TOT), or write anything whatsoever on anything whatsoever.

So I'm woefully ignorant now, because I just recently decided to hell with you I need to live, and with some purpose. So catch me up, if you don't mind. We colonials are so not to own you know.

This is the latest one out.....it's really too many to choose from Colleen...ask your intuition (you've got plenty of it).

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iQL1IfKTN4

**Catsquotl** · 18th June 2020, 16:05

Originally posted by Elen

This is the latest one out.....it's really too many to choose from Colleen...ask your intuition (you've got plenty of it).

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iQL1IfKTN4

This is also one of the more palatable ones. I'll post a few of the others later tonight. I'm in the middle of making dinner

**Catsquotl** · 18th June 2020, 16:49

I just thought of who Jordan reminds me of.
He's Nathan from the Sophie's choice story.

**Wind** · 18th June 2020, 16:52

He is known as the champion of free speech and has been a divisive political figure for expressing anti-pc things. He is against identity politics and that makes him quite wise I think. I've seen him live and I've read his books, watched countless lectures too. I appreciate his take on Jungian psychology, I feel that he is a good man. He has a temper though and that's why he rubs many people the wrong way. I must say that Joseph Campbell had a better grasp on Jung and mythology, but JP is the second best thing when it comes to that these days.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhrpcwIZdiQ

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsfOrJs5SV4

**Catsquotl** · 18th June 2020, 17:55

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST6kj9OEYf0

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfH8IG7Awk0

These are the ones I saw which led me to start this thread although From the first I only saw a "possibly biased" compilation so I am linking to the whole debate.
The second one I watched after haven been linked to a few shorter vids where He is quite adamant about the dangers of post modernism.
Although I cannot deny some of his logic, especially when we look at the examples of how ideologies like marxism and communism have given rise to some of the most abhorant acts people are capable of I have yet to reconcile with the idea that that is Proof for the proposition that every and all ideological structures are doomed to Fail and result in an equaly tyrannical and abhorant display of inhuman behaviour.
That said it isn't looking good when looking around in the world.

As for the western praise of the individual within society as the saving grace for human kind is not a conclusion I would draw (yet) however.

With Love
Eelco

**Catsquotl** · 18th June 2020, 18:14

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeYRK16PIlA

This one led me down this particular rabbit hole

**Catsquotl** · 18th June 2020, 18:39

One thing I am having trouble understanding is that individualism as he explains it is biased.

If an individual therefore adopts an ideology. Say following post modernistic ideas. I am for #blacklivesmatter or against white priveledge etc. It seems he is advocating that at that point you are excluding other individuals. Or at least labeling them as desirable or undesirable examples of individual expression.

Confusing stuff for sure