Jordan Peterson

[Wind]

Catsquotl, you should look into Jordan's Biblical lectures.

I think his political stuff isn't so interesting and he has some not so good points there.

[Catsquotl]

Catsquotl, you should look into Jordan's Biblical lectures.

I think his political stuff isn't so interesting and he has some not so good points there.

I am planning to, But I only known about him 2 days. And as the reason For getting to know him pertained the growing black lives matter and political activist movement we see in play these days this is what was introduced to me first..

With Love

[Wind]

I am planning to, But I only known about him 2 days. And as the reason For getting to know him pertained the growing black lives matter and political activist movement we see in play these days this is what was introduced to me first..

With Love

Well, after all he did become a known figure in fall 2016 because of the political controversy.

I found him over two years ago when really got famous, before that I had only heard the name.

[Catsquotl]

I wonder though if his biblical series was thought of to enhance his idea of establishing/ reinforcing the idea that western Civilization is the best of a series of worst ideas..

[Wind]

Well, the truth is that the Western civilization is the best we currently have. Yet it's still quite bad or unfinished, corrupt...

[Dreamtimer]

I listened to Jordan on Joe Rogan's podcast. I think I listened to all three. That was enough for me. He had some good stuff to offer and then I moved on.

[Octopus Garden]

He's pretty much a motivational speaker on the libertarian spectrum somewhere. I value some of his ideas but some leave me scratching my head. He is way too enthralled with successful business types. He describes their success as being based purely on competence and hard work. His apparent political sophistication is at clear odds with the reality. 40% of the real riches in the U.S was made the old fashioned way -- inherited. He is an ivory tower philosopher and psychologist who has never been in the business world.

His value is in reminding people what they can control -- like showing up on time, cleaning their rooms, and not insisting they be addressed in one of 30 different pronouns.

He conflates the Swiftian nature of campus idiocy with a Communist threat, when it will clearly go the way of the dinosaur now that we are faced with real existential threats.

His emphasis on personal responsibility is so tired so old so almost amusing. How can some people rise above circumstances? Does Jordan Peterson even know about how policing, the judiciary, the prison system works in the U.S? If you are a young black man you are at a disadvantage. You trip up once and you may never be able to get back on your feet.

If Peterson devoted just a small portion more of his time to the much more menacing threat of emerging global fascism I would not have lost faith in him. But he doesn't and as he is Canadian I figure he likely knows nothing about it.

I do enjoy seeing him debate people who are completely idiotic though. That's fun. He is a great debater.

[Octopus Garden]

Thank you, I've just downloaded his 12 rules for life. Books tend to give me a bit more distance for contemplation.

For now I am looking for the sweet spot between the validity of his arguments and the way his ideas could become equally dangerous as the anti-communist examples he is using.
The idea of rewarding the (subjective) good and punishing the (subjective) evil comes to mind.

That said the current destruction of angry BLM mobs do have me worried.
I support the idea of reserving space for grief and anger of the "oppressed" black community. At the same time the white privilege and equilitarian speech mandates which may or may not be valid has me questioning my self worth as well.

Look up Jordan Peterson and IQ. Listen to his interviews and see how often IQ comes up. I think he almost single handedly brought IQ back as a measure of an individual. There is something a bit irksome in the concept. And measuring people this way could make a big comeback in fascist times.

He does concede that those who are incompetent due to lower IQ scores are just as valuable as others. Big of him! The culture will absorb the main message and ignore qualifiers. He's a terrible dope to make this error.

[Catsquotl]

He conflates the Swiftian nature of campus idiocy with a Communist threat, when it will clearly go the way of the dinosaur now that we are faced with real existential threats.

His emphasis on personal responsibility is so tired so old so almost amusing. How can some people rise above circumstances? Does Jordan Peterson even know about how policing, the judiciary, the prison system works in the U.S? If you are a young black man you are at a disadvantage. You trip up once and you may never be able to get back on your feet.

Thank you, I wondered about that, The way I have come to understand it though is that getting back on your feet or rising to circumstances is not a given or even possible/needed. Like the Buddha he proposes that life is suffering, but in order to get some personal meaning from it he proposes to get as much grip as you can on that which you can control. Which in some or even most cases may not be that much.

What I find valuable is the insistent reminder that ideological egalitarian regimes in practice so far have yielded more death and destruction than ours..
That i.m.o. is a reminder that may be brought to the fore more often.

WIth Love

[Octopus Garden]

I think that at this point in history we are at far more risk of populist nationalism breaking down the old globalist order and then slowly reconsolidating in global fascism -- which is the antithesis of egalitarianism.

As far as suffering goes, Peterson makes the very valid differentiation of meaningful and meaningless suffering.

The issues BLM ( the original group, not imposters) are protesting are meaningless suffering. Nobody should have to endure that at the hands of another, at the wrong end of a gun, or through someone's knee pressing on their neck.

[Octopus Garden]

Thank you, I wondered about that, The way I have come to understand it though is that getting back on your feet or rising to circumstances is not a given or even possible/needed. Like the Buddha he proposes that life is suffering, but in order to get some personal meaning from it he proposes to get as much grip as you can on that which you can control. Which in some or even most cases may not be that much.

What I find valuable is the insistent reminder that ideological egalitarian regimes in practice so far have yielded more death and destruction than ours..
That i.m.o. is a reminder that may be brought to the fore more often.

WIth Love

What do you mean by ideological egalitarian regimes? Democratic socialism is pretty much egalitarian and works the best, imho. Authoritarian regimes don't work, be they right or left.

[Catsquotl]

Democratic socialism? How would you define that?

[Aianawa]

Like DT, first came upon JP on Joe Rogan podcasts, his common sense data really upset people.

[Cearna]

What do you mean by ideological egalitarian regimes? Democratic socialism is pretty much egalitarian and works the best, imho. Authoritarian regimes don't work, be they right or left.

You know what I'm a simple High School teacher of 40 years experience in Australia. Is it possible for a more simple English language to be used by some of you egg heads? I haven't a clue of the context of your story, because they are filled with terms that I believe may have multiple meanings, depending on the mind of the writer.

Possibly we need a dictionary definition of these terms that are being used so freely, because we have many different cultural backgrounds, and levels of English and other languages in use by not only the members, but the visiting guests as well. If you are University trained, maybe you can either dumb it back or give us some understanding.

I've only had time to watch the first one Ellen put up, and find myself so far fighting my instinct to not watch anymore. I find him coming from a head space, which is switching around too much too quickly.

He reminds me of a Tibetan Rampa, I once went to listen to, and unfortunately most of the audience gradually walked out on. It was stuff we all knew as kids.

So, although I am criticising, I admit that many of the statements made, do cause you to realise that these are part and parcel of our everyday life causing great distress, which I grappled with from back in the 1980s, as did many of the people I met. So, I might digress onto some of these, when I have time later.

[Catsquotl]

Well the following article was a fun read..

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/...ual-we-deserve

But, having examined Peterson’s work closely, I think the “misinterpretation” of Peterson is only partially a result of leftists reading him through an ideological prism. A more important reason why Peterson is “misinterpreted” is that he is so consistently vague and vacillating that it’s impossible to tell what he is “actually saying.” People can have such angry arguments about Peterson, seeing him as everything from a fascist apologist to an Enlightenment liberal, because his vacuous words are a kind of Rorschach test onto which countless interpretations can be projected.

With Love