Have not read through every page but I know the debate continues still. Is there a virus or is there not? I see many many many medical professionals speaking out and some of them have been targeted. Speaking the truth can get you targeted - I speak from a first hand front row seat.
Where I live - no masks outside medical venues the only place that insists I sanitise my hands is the local library. I take my own as the hand sanitisers on offer contain - harmful to Humans - substances. I carry a reference book with me to show people when they question my use of my own sanitiser. Also - no one sick here and no deaths.
Now correct me if I am wrong - the definition of pandemic is highly suggestive that People would be sick and dying everywhere. The internet has connected us all to People all over the world - still I do not know one person who has been diagnosed or who has died - not one! Surely if this is a pandemic - we would all know (independent of each other) at least half a dozen people who have been infected or who have died???
I still recall the first fact I learned when this event erupted - corona virus - is medical meta language for influenza - confirmed by my doctor. The second fact - a friend and his family were in China when it all erupted - not sick - not dead. You would think that if anyone was going to get sick or die - it would be someone who was at the epicentre.
The typed word lacks emotion so please don't see my typed word as lacking respect for those who are ill and who have died during this period of time in our Earth history. The rest of us still have a fundamental right to try and make sense of what is happening.
Final comment - here where I live - almost everyone is asking questions. Every age group - People I know - People I don't know who serve me in a shop once ... the consensus is that there is more to this event than simply an illness.
Much Respect - Amanda
Aianawa (22nd November 2020)
A pandemic (from Greek πᾶν, pan, "all" and δῆμος, demos, "people") is an epidemic of an infectious disease that has spread across a large region, for instance multiple continents or worldwide, affecting a substantial number of people. A widespread endemic disease with a stable number of infected people is not a pandemic. Widespread endemic diseases with a stable number of infected people such as recurrences of seasonal influenza are generally excluded as they occur simultaneously in large regions of the globe rather than being spread worldwide.
Amanda, because I have explicitly posted here on the forum ─ and over at Project Avalon when I was still active there ─ about my own first infection with Covid-19, in April 2020. Emphasis on the word "first", because I have only just recently ─ i.e. a few weeks ago ─ been infected with Covid-19 a second time.
The strange thing is that there are so many conflicting reports regarding acquired immunity. Some sources claim that one would be immune up to a year after infection, but if that is true, then how come I got infected again only six months ─ almost down to the very day ─ after my first infection?
So either not everyone develops the same immunity ─ and there is some evidence to substantiate the theory that immunity against reinfection is indeed highly varied depending on genetics and environment ─ or else my second infection was by a mutated strain of the virus. And it is indeed known that the virus has mutated, and that there are at least two but possibly more variants of the SARS-CoV-2 virus going round. One's blood type plays a role too ─ people with blood type O or type B are less severely affected than people with blood types A and AB.
Also, a dear friend of mine ─ you know her, even if only by name ─ had to be rushed to hospital because of her Covid-19 infection, and I personally know several people who've been infected, some of whom (myself included) have contracted permanent damage from the disease. I also know of several people ─ among whom two relatives of members of this forum ─ who've died of Covid-19.
The way the virus operates inside the body is that it turns the body's immune system against itself, and that it makes everything permeable. In other words, your blood vessels start leaking, you get blood clots everywhere, your lungs start filling up with an impermeable jelly that accumulates water, and among other things, this blood vessel leakage also allows the virus to bypass the blood-brain barrier, enter the brain and cause neurological damage.
This damage can take years to recover from, but the virus doesn't grant you the years you need for recovery, since you can get reinfected within months. And each time, it does more damage, repeating its routine from earlier.
It is also a misconception that Covid-19 would be a respiratory disease. It is not. It has respiratory consequences, but the virus attacks and damages a lot more than just the respiratory system. It actively attacks your immune system and causes neurological damage. It is therefore much more akin in its modus operandi to something like Ebola and HIV than to influenza or the common cold, and genetically, the virus is related to the original SARS virus (now called SARS-CoV-1) and the MERS virus.
On account of the second "fact" you mention, I'm not so sure that the virus truly came from China. The pandemic as a whole may have started there ─ and specifically in the Wuhan province, not everywhere in China ─ but further investigation has shown that SARS-CoV-2 was already going round and infecting people in France as early as the beginning of 2019.
= DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =
Aragorn while I am saddened to hear you have been ill - you have not convinced me there is a pandemic. As I have typed many times and will continue to type - you cannot see my face for facial cues nor can you hear my voice for emotional content. I am an English Teacher and know full well the true and proper meaning of the word pandemic.
Let's give the proper definition of pandemic a context - yes? Let's imagine we are in a court room and we have to define and prove the meaning. One hundred randomly selected People from all over the world are placed on the stand and swear to tell the truth - questions involve asking the People how many People do you know who have been diagnosed with the virus and how many People do you know who have died from the virus? To properly define the word pandemic and its validity in the current event - every single person would have to list at least half a dozen People that they know.
Let's now examine the definition of the word "know" and apply that to support the evidence. You for example have tried to convince me that I "know" you but could I identify you from a photograph or even in person - not likely. So I stand by my comment that I do not know anyone who has been ill or died. As I have mentioned before - an online friend was in China - someone with whom I have had multiple visual online chats - entire family was at the epicentre and no illness. So from my perspective - I have questions about the entire event.
This morning I read online - here in Australia - 50,000 People were permitted to attend a sporting function but the government has announced that Carols by Candlelight will be banned/prohibited/not permitted. Can you explain the logic and the lawful application to Peoples Freedoms and Rights - please? Thousands of People can sit shoulder to shoulder at a sporting event but thousands of People sitting on the grass at a large public park/garden setting - cannot peacefully sings songs. Does that make sense to you? To anyone reading this ...?
I chose this thread because the title includes the word hoax therefore I thought I would be in a safe place to make comments - even if they are contrary to the comments of others. Just remember this - if this event is not really about Human illness and more about control - societal control mechanisms - when our Freedoms and Rights have been removed - we will NEVER get them back. Even friends and people online can see the validity of their Freedoms and Rights and even those with no legal training and no real knowledge of the legal system understand the concept that Freedoms and Rights will vanish NEVER to return.
While I acknowledge that People all over the world are ill - many many many People die everyday - from suicide to cancer and car accidents et cetera. Influenza kills many many many People every year. I've connected myself as a Child Abuse Whistleblower to Serene Teffaha Human Rights Lawyer. I managed to connect her to a leading medical professional - to be an expert witness. I've had three face to face meetings with the medical professional and when I brought the three of us together for a visual meeting - let's just say that the medical professional stated the masks are useless. I've promised not to name the medical professional. Suffice to say the medical professional would be instantly recognised by any reference I share. Tricky situation - I know but medical professionals all over the world are being targeted. Why would anyone target a medical professional for having an opinion - particularly when based on professional experience?
Much Respect - As we keep learning and keep trying to make sense of this situation - Amanda
NB: Don't forget that many many many Children and Adults are Trafficked every day - every year. They suffer an horrendous life and end up dead. Where is the acknowledgement and outrage at their deaths?
Amanda. It's not about the numbers. A pandemic is simply an epidemic that has escaped geographical containment ─ whether said containment was man-made or natural ─ and has spread onto other and distant locales. And considering that virtually every country or region on the planet has been affected by the coronavirus, the use of the term "pandemic" is justified.
Voices of the Forums videos.
When this thing first hit us over here in Belgium early in 2020, everyone threw a charm offensive on the people. We were going in lockdown, and everyone ─ minus the troublemakers of course ─ was full of understanding and respect for the rules. Everyone was concerned for the wellbeing of the population. Or so they wanted us to believe. Because they all thought it was all going to be over in three weeks. But it wasn't, and so after about a month, all of their alleged understanding and their charming concern for the wellbeing of the population went out the door in a heartbeat, transmogrifying into purely financial-economical concerns. To hell with people getting sick and dying, or with the healthcare sector getting overloaded. It suddenly didn't matter anymore to them, because it never had in the first place.
The government's chaotic and inconsistent response to it all is exactly because of that: the financial-economic lobbies. And here in Belgium, it even reached a stage where the scientists withdrew from their role as advisors for the government, because the government wasn't heeding their advice anyway in favor of appeasing the financial-economical lobbies.
And so now here we are, with Belgium being the worst affected country in Europe, and the necessity for a second lockdown, which until further notice will extend into the middle of December. It could have been avoided, if everyone had taken this thing seriously ─ everyone, which includes the government, the financial-economic interest lobbies and the people themselves. Because as long as there are people who refuse to follow the rules, and as long as the government is going to keep placating financial economic interests at the cost of common sense, that virus is going to keep on spreading with ease.
= DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =
Aragorn - You made personal comments from your perspective - which I fully respect but you have not answered my questions. As for the definition of pandemic - your response only strengthens my example. One hundred randomly selected People from a variety of different geographic settings - better still - one hundred different geographic settings. Every person would have to know at least half a dozen People who have been diagnosed or who have died. Keep in mind this entire event is based on what the government can do.
In Australia legislation is very clear - when there is a public health threat - to minimise the impact on society. It's all there if you know where to look. When Human Freedoms and Rights have been removed from our lexicon - intellect and every day living - who will People blame?
I note you did not comment about the Human Trafficking and their lack of Freedoms and Rights - or their deaths. We live in perplexing times and lately my thoughts are about how this event will proceed, unfold and if People will stand up and peacefully insist that their Freedoms and Rights not be removed. I don't have Children (by choice) and at my age - future impacts on society will not really be relevant to me - but - Children here now will have to live with whatever we leave them.
Much Respect - Amanda
Aianawa (23rd November 2020)
"In Australia legislation is very clear - when there is a public health threat - to minimise the impact on society. It's all there if you know where to look. When Human Freedoms and Rights have been removed from our lexicon - intellect and every day living - who will People blame?"
They will have to blame themselves ... Earth II calls to many and many choose to go rather than face blatant reality. It's perverse and scary and weird why the many would opt for that path. The logic escapes me entirely ... paraphrase by Mxyzptlk, a.k.a. Kltpzyxm
Last edited by NotAPretender, 23rd November 2020 at 13:30.
“But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -
Amanda, and the very fact that you've purposely included ─ emphasis in bold is mine ─ the phrase "personal comments from your perspective" in that sentence proves it. Dismissing the facts as being someone's personal opinion is a typical dishonest debating tactic wielded by reactionaries.
You hold very strong opinions on many things, and I've already long observed that trying to persuade you of the errors in your judgement is only a waste of time, given that...
- you've got the science all wrong;
- you've got the numbers all wrong;
- you move the goalposts whenever you think doing so would invalidate the facts with which you are being confronted; and
- you will never yield.
It is therefore futile trying to have an honest discussion with you on just about everything that you hold strong opinions on, and any insistence of mine on the facts would only have negatively influenced your public persona.
I therefore chose the graceful approach in my previous post of leaving you in your dignity and ─ unfortunately ─ your illusion that you would be right and that I would be wrong. But since you insist ─ and in public ─ you are now leaving me no choice but to throw all of my cards out on the table. After all, this forum is not about defending someone's opinion; this forum is about getting to the truth ─ however inconvenient that truth might be.
Amanda. By your definition, every single one of those 100 people ─ and therefore, 100% of the population ─ would have personal knowledge of at least 60% of the population getting infected and possibly dying of the disease. Therefore, by your logic, a pandemic would only be a pandemic if it culls 60% of the population.
Well, I don't know about you, but I don't even know 60% of the global population on a personal basis ─ which by your own definition as stated higher up the thread is mandatory and does not include people one only knows through the internet or through direct or indirect reporting. And however you personally wish to define a pandemic, the definition as it is posted at Wikipedia and as I quoted it in my previous post still stands.
Addendum: Maybe you (and Aianawa) should read the following article ─ and I do mean "read", not "skim with prejudice"...:
= DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =
Here's what I have seen recently - from my perspective. The lockdowns and forced wearing of masks et cetera - all directives that come from the government - yes/no/maybe? I see the government making all the decisions.
We have 50,000 People shoulder to shoulder at a sporting venue - permitted. Who permits this - the government? Stands to reason - they built the venue and need the taxes and revenue - yes/no/maybe?
We have a ban on thousands of People sitting on the grass singing songs at Carols by Candlelight. Who sanctions this - the government? They built the stage in the park and control who uses it - yes/no/maybe?
I do not see the actions of lobbyists here - it is the government applying legislation and regulations. There is no sense in scaring the population and then permitting them to sit in a sporting venue but not to sings songs at a festive event. I see a psychological operation to see who is afraid and completely obedient.
This is what I learned this year. When our government is in session - that is when legislation can be passed. This year was a little different - and - when I explained this to a variety of People in a proper face to face conversation - they were all shocked and disappointed. At the time I was connected to legal professionals with legal training and discovering what they were discovering. This year government made legislation that was being applied to the population - outside the usual sessions when government sits.
I am going to explain this as best I can via the typed word. It's a bit of you say potato and I say pohtatoh. The key words are legislation and regulation. This year the government applied restrictions to the people here - via a method outside the session - by enacting legislation. One legal practitioner explained to me - it is technically not legislation but regulations.
Have a friend who is a Professor of Law so I rang him at home seeking his assistance. He confirmed that technically the government can have a meeting - outside the regular session - and essentially make new legislation/regulations. Whichever word you use - the legislation/regulation will be lawfully applied to the People.
Next I learned that a particular Act relating to Health and the Government head of Health - (short version) - can apply a lockdown and when the time has elapsed can extend the lockdown. The section of this particular Act essentially permits the lockdowns to be extended and extended and extended ad infinitum - and - it is all lawful.
Anyone reading this - if you think this event is just about an illness - then I can respect your point of view but from where I am sitting - there is much much much more going on. I respect that People have been ill - when are People not ill? I respect that People have died - when have People not died? Those of us with inquiring minds - who think Laterally and Critically and Divergently - are just trying to make sense of what is happening - yes/no/maybe?
Here's to all the People who have been ill all through our Earth History and to all those who have died - your ill health and deaths are not forgotten. Those who have fallen ill or who have sadly died during this event - you are not less important but rather a beacon of hope - that People will work through what is happening and understand how to evolve without restrictions of Human Freedom and Rights.
Much Respect - As we keep learning and trying to make sense of our current paradigm - Amanda
NB: In response to identifying a person via a dated photograph. Here's a possible manner of dealing with that suggestion. I might be asked to identify Aragorn via his voice. My response would be; I've never heard him speak. I might then be asked whether I could identify him visually - having perhaps used an internet camera connected application. I would respond that I have never engaged in a camera/video chat. At that stage the Legal Professional would have shown that a single dated photograph would be excluded as viable. Just showing an example to show my thinking.
Last edited by Amanda, 24th November 2020 at 02:09.
Aianawa (24th November 2020)
The video link above this post is certainly interesting. Here's where my thinking went as I watched. First to enter my thoughts;
No mention of co-morbidity.
No access to friends and family.
No name of nurse on screen.
No mention of name of hospital or the area or even a vague reference to a location - just the state of South Dakota.
It stands to reason that an ill person would be alone with their thoughts in the hospital and tuning into their body.
The nurse mentions a patient stating they could have lung cancer. Was the patient tested for lung cancer? People know their own body. Was that particular patient a heavy smoker or did they come from a genetic family history, where cancer is prevalent? I believe DNA testing is now available to see the likelihood of contracting cancer. Spoke to a friend who is currently undergoing the test - that is how I learned about it.
All I know is that no one where I live is sick or has died. It is a rural farming area with major cities in both directions. Casual labourers and people from a variety of nationalities - some stay and some visit. No masks here and no illness.
Please stay with me and think about how we receive our information regarding current global events.
Imagine the television system was down for 24 -48 hours. How would you know what is happening in the world? Would you rely on your own senses? Would you rely on your own eyes? Would you rely on the people in your community and what they shared with you via first person conversations?
What do you see where you are living?
What are people sharing as information where you are living?
Example 1. Someone with lung cancer. Logic dictates they will be susceptible to any number of health issues.
Example 2. A seemingly healthy person. Do they smoke/drink/eat fast food? Chances are they will have a compromised immune system despite appearing to be healthy.
My point with the above two examples is this: We need all relevant information to see the complete picture. Maybe my former police training is influencing my thought processes - who knows? When I am investigating - do I speak to only one witness or do I speak with every single witness? When I do not look at ALL information and evidence I am failing to investigate/research properly. This is just my thought process and I can respect that others think differently.
The video is scant on details and did not convince me of anything - other than media is a mechanism that can share information freely - or - tightly control it so that it conforms to Neuro Lingistic Programming.
Much Respect - Amanda
NB: Yesterday information in a first person conversation - included specifics about a woman who participated in a clinical trial of the vaccine. She stated she had terrible lumps and blistering on the soles of her feet. Now she would have signed a waiver/non disclosure form - so this is the type of information that will never be included in a mainstream news article. I received information privately early on - five people had died during a human clinical trial. Can I prove it - no but neither can I disprove it. No assumptions please - I am not anti vaccine.