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Thread: Coronavirus with an R0 of 3 or beyond

  1. #46
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    CNBC is doing some amazing reporting on the Coronavirus outbreak right now, the below videos are well worth a watch.

    The first video is an interview with the head of Health and Human Services. Watch him dodge the question of whether the virus was man-made and escaped from the Wuhan BSL4 lab, or whether he has been in contact with the intelligence services on the issue. His silence says a thousand words and no, he has not denied any of it or even called them "crazy conspiracy theories". I think we can expect an official admission by the US authorities of what really happened in China in a matter of weeks.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gd1fuEYD3Q


    The second CNBC news clip is a discussion on the true expected economic impact of the Coronavirus, which everybody is sort of ignoring for now, but it should be blindingly obvious. The world economy is about to grind to a screeching halt, possibly for a number of months or even longer, depending on the spread and global impact of the pandemic.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnmUr2dbA6M


    The third interview is with Senator Cotton, a member of the National Security committee, reiterating his charge that the virus came from the Wuhan Bioweapons programme and that China has not categorically denied this, therefore they must come clean and provide conclusive proof to the world about the origins of this pandemic. China's various non-traditional attacks (such as hacking) on the US are also mentioned.

    Last edited by Chris, 15th February 2020 at 09:54.

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  3. #47
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    that's pretty horrible. My co-worker pointed out that there are differing stories and it is hard to pin down the truth. He didn't by necessity believe the spikes and lulls in the spread. Nor did he believe the 'lab' conspiracy theory despite it being seriously entertained. He said the same theories were around for SARS. We did discuss the 2% death rate which is relatively benign as far as pandemics are concerned. For example, he cited a 9%-10% for SARS and I mentioned the 99% for Ebola.

    But then when a healthy 35-year old succumbs to a disease, well, that doesn't seem benign. My theory fell by the wayside when Americans with regular American names like 'Frasure' start indicating symptoms...it has crossed a genetic cline. He suggested 'not so fast' because of the unusual characteristic of 'common carriers' infecting others while not symptomatic themselves. He pointed out that people that are infected in Vietnam (one small city with about 13 cases) were recovering without complications. And another anomaly he cited was in the location of his sister's factory which is close to the Vietnam-China border, he said that there wasn't much going on there beyond the shutdown of the transit systems. I suggested that inter-marriage/interbreeding could be a factor in the slow spread (just being me, of course).
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  5. #48
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    On another note the rumor is that there will be a vaccination by the end of March?
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  7. #49
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    And apparently North Korea accepted help from the Red Cross...whhaat!
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  9. #50
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    Good points NAP.

    Lack of reliable information is one of the big problems we have.

    The latest data seems to suggest that the R0 is crazy high, over 6 apparently, this thing is just super-contagious. We still don't have any reliable info on the death rate either, but the original 2-3 percent that was estimated seems about right.

    Regarding the vaccination, technically, yes, they will have a vaccine made in the lab, but it needs to go through trials to see if it's safe and if it actually works, which is at least another 12-18 months away. So, don't expect one before mid-2021.

    However, one promising treatment seems to be using the blood plasma of patients that have recovered, because it contains the antibodies to block the virus. That may very well be the way forward, at least for now.

    Personally, I am not that worried about the virus itself, but the disruption to daily life it will cause, not to mention a global recession, panic, xenophobia, hoarding, civil unrest, shortages, etc... Well, that's another matter and I see that as the main effect most people will experience from this. It isn't the end of the world, but a lot of people are going to suffer, I'm afraid.

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  11. #51
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    I am posting the following news report by Taiwan News with the caution that this is unconfirmed, hearsay and goes against what I wrote in the previous post, that antibodies from recovered patients can reportedly help cure the disease. This report claims the exact opposite, so I am only posting it as a placeholder, in case we get additional data that disproves, or God Forbid, confirms it.

    https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3876197

    Exclusive: Chinese doctors say Wuhan coronavirus reinfection even deadlier

    Instead of creating immunity the virus can reportedly reinfect an individual and hasten fatal heart attack

    TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — It’s possible to get infected by the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) a second time, according to doctors on the frontline in China’s city of Wuhan, leading to death from heart failure in some cases.

    The claim is made by doctors working in the Hubei Province capital that is at the center of the epidemic, which has to date infected 64,201 people and killed 1,487. One of the doctors reached out to a relative living in the United Kingdom, who then informed Taiwan News.

    Both the relative and doctors asked to remain anonymous, out of consideration they might face retribution from the Chinese authorities. The doctor, Li Wenliang (李文亮), who first raised warnings about the Wuhan virus, was rebuked by the authorities before succumbing to the devastating disease himself earlier this month.

    According to the message forwarded to Taiwan News, “It’s highly possible to get infected a second time. A few people recovered from the first time by their own immune system, but the meds they use are damaging their heart tissue, and when they get it the second time, the antibody doesn’t help but makes it worse, and they die a sudden death from heart failure.”

    The source also said the virus has “outsmarted all of us,” as it can hide symptoms for up to 24 days. This assertion has been made independently elsewhere, with Chinese pulmonologist Zhong Nanshan (鍾南山) saying the average incubation period is three days, but it can take as little as one day and up to 24 days to develop symptoms.

    Also, the source said that false negative tests for the virus are fairly common. “It can fool the test kit – there were cases that they found, the CT scan shows both lungs are fully infected but the test came back negative four times. The fifth test came back positive.”

    According to the BBC and other media outlets, some laboratory tests are incorrectly telling people they are virus-free. There is also anecdotal evidence of people having up to six negative results before being diagnosed correctly.

    Dr. Li Wenliang first raised concerns about this. His own test results had come back negative multiple times before he was finally diagnosed.

    False negative tests raise question marks over how many people have the Wuhan coronavirus, with many believing the Chinese authorities have massively underreported the number of cases and deaths. Meanwhile, the official methodology for diagnosing the virus in China was changed this week, leading to a sudden leap in the number of recorded cases and deaths.

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  13. #52
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    I shall post this here too, in case if you're interested the astrological take on this virus.


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  15. #53
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    Just the opening I was looking for... Once again you have stepped into my web...

    I spoke with a friend for the 1st time in over 15 years ago a while back. We were talking about the old days and he mentioned an astrological prediction that I made probably about 40 years ago about an element he should be aware of and alert to because if he wasn't it could cause him trouble (Neptune). He said that as it turned out it had been a very accurate prediction. I tried to blow it off as coincidence and he insisted that no, it was true.


    By the way, the flesh in open markets is 'bat' meat...
    Last edited by NotAPretender, 16th February 2020 at 15:11.
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  17. #54
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    https://harvardtothebighouse.com/202...rus-2019-ncov/

    Logistical and Technical Exploration into the Origins of the Wuhan Strain of Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)

    Posted on January 31, 2020 by harvard2thebighouse

    UPDATE 2/14, 3:02am EST: A probable smoking pre-print has been released, by the Natural National Science Foundation of China:

    “In summary, somebody was entangled with the evolution of 2019-nCoV coronavirus. In addition to origins of natural recombination and intermediate host, the killer coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan.”

    And in a predictable turn, both researchers have since deleted their profiles off of the ResearchGate site completely. Additionally, the trend in reporting from the Chinese government diverged sharply on February 11th, when the paper initially was uploaded onto the site – making it appear as there’s internal infighting within the Party about what their official story will be.

    --------------------------------

    This report is the product of a collaboration between a retired professional scientist with 30 years of experience in genomic sequencing and analysis who helped design several ubiquitous bioinformatic software tools, and a former NSA counterterrorism analyst. It considers whether the Wuhan Strain of coronavirus (2019-nCoV) is the result of naturally emergent mutations against the possibility that it may be a bio-engineered strain meant for defensive immunotherapy protocols that was released into the public, most likely by accident since China’s rate of occupational accidents is about ten-times higher than America’s, and some twenty-times more than Europe’s – the only other regions with high-level virology labs.

    This mistake may have been precipitated by the need to quickly finish research that was being rushed for John Hopkin’s Event 201 which was held this past October and meant to gameplan the containment of a global pandemic. Research may also have been hurried due to deadlines before the impending Chinese New Year – the timing of these events point to increased human error, not a globalist conspiracy. Beijing has had four known accidental leaks of the SARS virus in recent years, so there is absolutely no reason to assume that this strain of coronavirus from Wuhan didn’t accidentally leak out as well. This is unlikely to be a plot twist in one of the novels Tom Clancy wrote after he started mailing it in.

    Simply and horribly, this is likely to become another Chernobyl or Fukushima – a catastrophic illustration of mankind’s hubris and intransigence clashing with Nature, as fate again reaps a once unimaginably tragic toll.

    Given that this outbreak was said to begin in late December when most bat species in the region are hibernating and the Chinese horseshoe bat’s habitat covers an enormous swath of the region containing scores of cities and hundreds of millions people to begin with, the fact that this Wuhan Strain of coronavirus, denoted as 2019-nCoV, emerged in close proximity to the only BSL-4 virology lab in China, now notoriously located in Wuhan, which in turn was staffed with at least two Chinese scientists – Zhengli Shi and Xing-Yi Ge – both virologists who had previously worked at an American lab which already bio-engineered an incredibly virulent strain of bat coronavirus – the accidental release of a bio-engineered virus meant for defensive immunotherapy research from Wuhan’s virology lab cannot be automatically discounted, especially when the Wuhan Strain’s unnatural genomic signals are considered.



    – In 2002, Stony Brook first assembled a virus from scratch, building a polio-virus, and providing proof-of-concept for the creation, alteration, and manipulation of viral genomes.

    – By 2015, conducting research that was met with an enormous amount of concern, scientists at UNC had successfully created a “chimeric, SARS-like virus” by altering the viral genome of a Chinese bat coronavirus’s spike-protein genes – sequences that code for the spikes that poke out from surface of viruses and allow them to unlock entry into hosts, in this case making the bio-engineered coronavirus incredibly contagious. This research raised eyebrows since it was clearly gain-of-function research – experimentation that seeks to increase a pathogen’s virulence, creating a more effective double-edged sword to counter – a practice banned in America from 2014 until December 2017 when NIH lifted the ban, specifically to allow research on this sort of virus. Looking at UNC’s gain-of-function research on coronavirus spike-proteins, which received its funding just before the ban was implemented and was only allowed to go forward following a special review, a virologist with the Louis Pasteur Institute of Paris warned: “If the [new] virus escaped, nobody could predict the trajectory.”

    – But then oddly, in late January right as the pandemic was blooming, Dr. Ralph Baric claimed in an interview that people should be more concerned with the seasonal flu – despite having personally overseen the controversial engineering of a hyper-virulent strain of batty coronavirus just a few years back. Immediately discounting the burgeoning outbreak of an unknown coronavirus as a non-event seems particularly troubling for someone who’d trained two Chinese scientists on how to make hyper-virulent coronaviruses, especially when it’s hard to imagine that Dr. Baric was unaware his past colleagues were now working at the Wuhan Virology Lab, the epicenter of the outbreak.

    – Scientists have expressed concern about China’s ability to safely monitor this BSL-4 lab in Wuhan since it opened in 2017: “an open culture is important to keeping BSL-4 labs safe, and he questions how easy this will be in China, where society emphasizes hierarchy. ‘Diversity of viewpoint, flat structures where everyone feels free to speak up and openness of information are important.'” This lab is at most 20 miles from the wet market where the virus had been assumed to have jumped from animal to human. However the idea that a Chinese lab could have a viral sample escape is well-documented – as mentioned, one lab in Beijing has had four separate incidents of the SARS virus leaking out accidentally.

    – Notably, the first three known cases from early December had no contact with that market, and roughly one-third of the initial exposed cohort had no direct ties to Wusan’s wild meat market, the original presumptive source of the virus.

    – Since its discovery, scientists have been unable to fully determine the zoological origins of 2019-nCoV, it was initially thought to have passed through snakes, but now all that’s agreed upon is that it’s mostly bat in origin. This inability to derive an exact zoological source is exactly what would be expected if the virus had been artificially engineered to target humans as UNC already has, this doesn’t prove an artificial nature – but it is consistent with one.

    – A full-genome evolutionary analysis of 2019-nCoV published in The Lancet concluded, “recombination is probably not the reason for emergence of this virus” since it seems that the Wuhan Strain isn’t a mosaic of previously known coronaviruses, but instead draws from distant, discrete parts of the coronavirus family tree – not how these viruses naturally evolve. Because even mixing and matching coronavirus genomes from every known mammal, scientists couldn’t find any possible combination that would explain those regions of the Wuhan Strain’s genome. The Lancet muses that a mysterious animal host could still be out there, however since they’ve already searched through every known possibility and been unable to find a match, another obvious explanation is that bio-engineering accounts for the inexplicable regions of the Wuhan Strain’s genome

    – Perhaps most notably, a genetic analysis of the spike-protein genes – the exact region that was bio-engineered by the UNC lab in 2015, where Zhengli Shi and Xing-Yi Ge previously isolated a batty coronavirus that targets the ACE2 receptor just like this 2019-nCoV strain of the coronavirus does – indicates an artificial and unnatural origins of the Wuhan Strain’s spike-protein genes when they are compared to the genomes of wild relatives. Instead of appearing similar and homologous to its wild relatives, an important section of the Wuhan Strain’s spike-protein region shares the most genetic similarity with a bio-engineered commercially available gene sequence that’s designed to help with immunotherapy research. It is mathematically possible for this to happen in nature – but only in a ten-thousand bats chained to ten-thousand Petri dishes and given until infinity sense.

    – Early research found that 2019-nCoV targets the ACE2 receptor, which is found in East Asians at roughly five-times the rate of other global populations, indicating that the Wuhan Strain 2019-nCoV was likely developed as part of a gain-of-function defensive project possibly linked to immunotherapy or vaccinations – never meant to leave the lab, but meant to serve as a Red Team to fight back against, not as an offensive weapon since the virus is likely wired to be much more virulent among Asian populations. Further support for this is the fact that the Wuhan BSL-4 virology lab was already actively looking into the risks posed from bat coronaviruses, and actively researching coronavirus treatments – by definition both of these projects would require live virulent strains of coronavirus.

    – The Wuhan Strain of coronavirus, 2019-nCoV, appears to be transmissible even before its host shows any symptoms at all, making temperature-scanning at airports ineffective since hosts appear to be contagious for about a week before any symptoms emerge. This is in stark contrast with SARS, whose hosts weren’t contagious until they were symptomatic, allowing for its relatively quick containment. This chart is not from a peer-reviewed source but was claims to capture the comparative rates of infections between recent outbreaks. A recent pre-print now gives 2019-nCoV a rating of R4, meaning each host passes the virus on to four new victims, a rate significantly higher than any past global viral outbreak.

    – Following the aforementioned bat coronavirus bio-engineering research that was critiqued for being too risky in 2015, in the paper from UNC eventually published the next year that describing their successful bio-engineering of a highly-virulent coronavirus derived from bats, researcher #8 is listed as one “Zheng-li Shi” attached to the “Key Laboratory of Special Pathogens and Biosafety, Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Wuhan, China.”

    – Zhengli Shi seems to have returned to Wuhan at some point since 2016, specifically to the Wuhan Institute of Virology’s Disease Engineering Technical Research Center, since she then appears in this September 2019 paper on the human behaviors most likely to lead to bat-borne coronavirus exposure in southern China, and in this pending preprint on the current outbreak of 2019-nCoV – just a sample of the dozens of coronavirus-related papers she’s published over a three decade career. And not only does she provide a direct chain of expertise tying the already successful bio-engineering of a virulent bat-based coronavirus at UNC directly to the BSL-4 virology lab in Wuhan, but back in January 2014 she’d received a $665,000 grant from NIH for a study titled The Ecology of Bat Coronaviruses and the Risk of Future Coronavirus Emergence (NIAID R01 AI1 10964) as well as $559,500 more from USAID for a study titled Emerging Pandemic Threats PREDICT_2China (Project No. AID-OAA-A-14-00102). Beyond this American funding specifically into viral diseases zoonotically transferring from animals to humans which would slipped in just before the ban, over the years she’s also received around $3 million in grants to study these zoonotic viruses from China and other countries, and has served on the editorial board of several virological research magazines. More of her research into the intersection of coronaviruses like the Wuhan Strain and their epidemic potential was funded by the U.S. Department of Defense, the U.S. Threat Reduction Agency, and U.S. Biological Defense Research Directorate of the Naval Medical Research Center.

    – And so a scientist who’s been prolifically involved with studying the molecular interaction of coronaviruses and humanity, spending decades and millions of dollars, and having even helped build a hyper-virulent coronavirus from scratch at UNC – just so happens to be working at the only BSL-4 virology lab in China that also just so happens to be at the epicenter of an outbreak involved a coronavirus that’s escaping zoological classification and whose novel spike-protein region shares more in common with a commercial genetic vector than any of its wild relatives, and has other unnatural characteristics that will be discussed below.

    – Another Chinese virologist, Xing-Yi Ge, appears as an author on the 2016 UNC paper and is also attached to the lab in Wuhan. Previously in 2013, he’d successfully isolated a SARS-like coronavirus from bats which targets the ACE2 receptor, just like our present virus, the Wuhan Coronavirus 2019-nCoV. And it turns out that the Wuhan Strain’s ACE2 receptor’s genes are quite unique: they’re almost identical to SARS’s spike-protein genes – despite the fact that almost none of the two coronavirus’s genomes are similar anywhere else at all. Beyond that, although the Wuhan Strain’s spike-protein genome differs from SARS in four out of the five most important genomic spots that determine binding to the ACE2 receptor, they surprisingly don’t effect the protein-spike’s shape. And in an even bigger coincidence, these four spots also code for the outside region of the spike that allows entry into cells, and do not effect it either – allowing the Wuhan Strain to still use the ACE2 receptor to unlock cells while possibly gaining additional capabilities. The odds that this concordance was bio-engineered into the virus are several orders of magnitude more likely than for this to randomly have evolved in nature.

    – Numerous videos purportedly from inside hospitals in Wuhan depict a crisis that is far greater than the numbers released by China to date. There is widespread but unverified online reporting that Wuhan crematoriums have been running 24/7, which is consistent with a recent peer-reviewed study that claims that as of January 25, Wuhan had over 75,000 infections – when the official number was just 761. Chinese language social media also reflects a sense of panic and desperation that is highly discordant with the numbers being released by the Chinese government. Who, notably, are refusing any direct assistance from the American CDC. (Evidence that China is vastly downplaying this pandemic’s severity: Example 1. Example 2. Example 3. Example 4. Example 5. Example 6.)

    – Additionally, although another since-retracted pre-print noted several very short genomic sequences in 2019-nCoV’s spike-protein gene that look far more similar to sequences found in HIV than to other coronaviruses – critics quickly pointed out that the shared homology didn’t reach statistical significance. However a closer look at the data reveals that there were a few small shared genomic segments that, despite being physically separated from each other along each strand of DNA, all worked together to code for the Wuhan Strain’s protein-spike’s crucial receptor binding site. Something that is highly unlikely to have happened by chance. And despite most of its protein-spike being shared with SARS, these substituted segments weren’t shared at all – nor were they found in any other coronavirus.

    – Critics have brushed off the Wuhan Strain’s shared homology with HIV as statistically insignificant, however clinical reporting indicates that the Wuhan Strain may be using this shared HIV homology to attack CD4 immune cells just like HIV does, as an unusually high percentage of patients are showing low white blood cell counts, especially the sickest ones. This pathogenicity may well be due to the unique HIV-live genomics of the Wuhan Strain, as one white-paper by LSU’s professor emeritus of Microbiology, Immunology, and Parasitology who’s also a Harvard-educated virologist with a PhD in Microbiology and Molecular Genetics notes: “This is the first description of a possible immunosuppressive domain in coronaviruses or nCoV2019. The three key [mutations] common to the known immunosuppressive domains are also in common with the sequence from [the spike-protein]. While coronaviruses are not known for general immunosuppression of the style shown by HIV-1, this does not rule out immunosuppression at the site of active infection in the lung, which would prolong and potentially worsen infection at that site.”

    – And it should be noted that SARS – much ballyhooed as a close relative to the Wuhan Strain – didn’t notable effect white blood cell counts. Additionally, clinical treatment guides published online in late January by established Chinese medical sources note the progressive reduction of white blood cells, as well as the importance of monitoring this decline. And reporting from Thailand indicates that adding a cocktail of two different anti-HIV drugs to the typical flu treatment regime seemed to effectively knock back the Wuhan Strain.

    – In a highly concerning turn, scientists have noted that the Wuhan Strain can have a “striking” short term rate of mutation which doesn’t indicate an artificial origin but captures the unique threat posed by this coronavirus regardless of its providence, since a faster mutation rates makes it more likely this virus can dodge testing and neutralize vaccines. Something there is already early evidence for.

    – Giving further credence to the idea that the Wuhan Strain was bio-engineered is the existence of a patent application that looks to modulate a coronavirus’ spike-protein genes – the precise region altered by Zhengli Shi at UNC to make a hyper-virulent strain of coronavirus, and whose alteration and adaptation would explain the Wuhan Strain’s unusual behavior as discussed above.

    – And curiously, the head of Harvard’s Chemistry Department, Dr. Charles Lieber, was arrested in the midst of this outbreak on charges that he’d been accepting millions of dollars in bribes from the Chinese government. According to his charging documents, Dr. Lieber first went to the Wuhan University of Technology (WUT), in November 2011 to participate in a nanotechnology forum, which was when he was recruited into a bribery scheme that would net him several million dollars to “establish a research lab and conduct research at WUT,” which became known as ” Joint Nano Key Laboratory,” as well as mentor and advocate for graduate students. By 2015, Dr. Lieber appeared to be fairly intimately involved with what seemed to begin as simply a nanotechnology lab, but now had shifted to involve biology as well, since he described visiting the lab multiple times per year “as we try to build up the nano-bio part of the lab.” Whether or not this nano-bio part of the Nano Key Laboratory is related to Wuhan’s BSL-4 virology lab isn’t clear, however if the Wuhan Strain was bio-engineered, technology classified as “nano-bio” would’ve almost certainly played a role.



    Given the above facts, either:

    – A coronavirus spontaneously mutated and jumped to humans at a wet market or deep in some random bat cave which just so happened to be 20 miles from China’s only BSL-4 virology lab, a virus with an unusually slippery never-before-seen genome that’s evading zoological classification, and whose spike-protein region which allows it to enter host cells appears most like a bio-engineered commercial product, that somehow managed to infect its first three and roughly one-third of its initial victims despite them not being connected to this market, and then be so fined-tuned to humans that it’s gone on to create the single greatest public health crisis in Chinese history with approaching 100 million citizens locked-down or quarantined – also causing Mongolia to close its border with its largest trading partner for the first time in modern history.

    – Or, Chinese scientists failed to follow correct sanitation protocols possibly while in a rush during their boisterous holiday season, something that had been anticipated since the opening of the BSL-4 lab and has happened at least four times previously, and accidentally released this bio-engineered Wuhan Strain – likely created by scientists researching immunotherapy regimes against bat coronaviruses, who’ve already demonstrated the ability to perform every step necessary to bio-engineer the Wuhan Strain 2019-nCov – into their population, and now the world. As would be expected, this virus appears to have been bio-engineered at the spike-protein genes which was already done at UNC to make an extraordinarily virulent coronavirus. Chinese efforts to stop the full story about what’s going on are because they want the scales to be even since they’re now facing a severe pandemic and depopulation event. No facts point against this conclusion.

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  19. #55
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    That's quite an article...

    I have about 1% Mongolian ancestry...yeah, really...
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  21. #56
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    That's quite an article...

    I have about 1% Mongolian ancestry...yeah, really...
    It seems legit. Apparently some of the scientific studies and conclusions behind it have been published in a mainstream Chinese medical journal. It would seem the CCP wants to release this info eventually and blame it on corrupt local officials or the CIA or some other credible foreign actor. As I have mentioned, the knowledge that this was an engineered virus that escaped from a Wuhan bioweapons lab (horrifyingly, there are several such facilities in Wuhan, with one of them only 150 metres, or about a block away from the famed Wuhan seafood market) is now in the mainstream, openly discussed by CNBC and some US politicians, so it seems futile to try and suppress the truth, or some twisted version of it for much longer.

    The key moment for me was the firing of local officials, putting the army in charge and sending Beijing's top bioweapons expert there to coordinate the response. This looks an awful lot like Chernobyl in my estimation and in fact Chinese Netizens have been comparing it to that from the very beginning.

    The Mongolian ancestry thing is probably not that relevant, but it does seem from the data that this virus will have a much tougher time spreading in "white" countries. Not sure if that is good news or not, it would seem that amongst its many horrifying qualities, this virus is also racist, but personally I'll take it, the fewer people that die from this, the better for the whole world.

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  23. #57
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    The horsemen are about.

    We have plagues of virus and locust.

    Famine will follow the locusts.

    The climate is bringing floods and droughts and storms.

    The ocean is acidifying.

    Wars are happening as they have been.

    Just how much death will there be?

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    The horsemen are about.

    We have plagues of virus and locust.

    Famine will follow the locusts.

    The climate is bringing floods and droughts and storms.

    The ocean is acidifying.

    Wars are happening as they have been.

    Just how much death will there be?
    Quite a lot actually.

    Good ol' Bill Gates is predicting 10 million deaths Just in Africa and just from the Coronavirus. It's easy to see that there will be far more deaths overall from various causes and all over the world. It is nature's way of saying "fuck you, I'd had enough." That is even the case with man-made disasters, because man is part of nature.

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    Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    The horsemen are about.
    DT, funny you should write about that as I was thinking about this exact topic yesterday and before it too. Yet didn't write here as I didn't want to be sounding "alarmist". However when this virus commotion started, I saw a dream about one of the riders. The good thing is that I see premonitions extremely rarely, but when I do they are accurate. Not saying that my dream this time was one, but the timing was kinda spooky.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Yikes. Going to the dream thread now.

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