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Thread: Coronavirus with an R0 of 3 or beyond

  1. #946
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    It's like the folks who live near a dam which is in bad shape. The people three miles away are very concerned. The people two miles away are very concerned. The people one mile away don't care at all. They don't think about it.

    It's too much. I forget the psychological term for that.
    To both 'know' and 'not know' something, at the same time is called 'cognitive dissonance.' Being able to hold two completely opposing views of something at the same time. I think this might be it. There might be some kind of survival mechanism there. Who knows?

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    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    I'm with you, Wind.

    For sure a failsafe to keep one's brains from leaking out.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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    From journal, The Scientist

    About CFS and Long Covid,

    Normally, the body reins in the immune response after an infection is tamped down, but perhaps SARS-CoV-2 infections could cause the immune system to get stuck in that overactive state in some people, pouring a persistent shower of cytokines into the blood, notes Yale University immunologist Akiko Iwasaki. It’s theoretically possible that the virus could seek long-term refuge in an organ such as the brain that isn’t easily accessible to the immune system, Iwasaki says. This could cause a consistent trickle of virus particles to escape into the blood, where they aggravate an unceasing immune response, she adds, although with a few exceptions, this has never been shown for RNA viruses such as SARS-CoV-2, Nath says.

    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-o...e-people-67749

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  7. #949
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    I think the new vaccines might be able to get to it ... I might be mis-remembering though. It seems like it would be similar to the cocktail of medications for Aids.

    Antioxidants in certain formulations are able to protect the brain or so the claim has been made. Which reminds me, I was going to suggest that to Chris for his diabetes diagnosis. Potassium intake has to be regulated I believe.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I'm beginning to understand the drive towards chaos and how claiming everything is a hoax facilitates that drive.

    History is a hoax. Science is a hoax. Climate is a hoax. Viruses are a hoax. Vaccines are a hoax. Money is a hoax.

    Who benefits from this chaos? Who is lining their pockets while people suffer and systems fall apart?

    The grifting is certainly real. The con is real.
    Power crazed fiends, who are often paranoid sociopaths. They're like Trump only much much quieter and 10 times more intelligent. Couple that with religious zealots who may even think enslaving people for Jesus or killing them off for Jesus, is a good thing.

    The natural state of man is fascism. Some Americans call it 'libertarianism' which is quite funny. Democracy has to be cherished and nurtured. If the powerful can convince people that all they need is Jesus, they've won half the battle.

    Get the people hooked on hopium of one form or another. For the rest there's always nihilism and porn. Nihilism can be harnessed by Fascists as people who don't believe in anything at all, don't want their depressing view of the world infringed upon by 'socialists' either.
    Last edited by Octopus Garden, 24th November 2020 at 21:52.

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  11. #951
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    I think the new vaccines might be able to get to it ... I might be mis-remembering though. It seems like it would be similar to the cocktail of medications for Aids.

    Antioxidants in certain formulations are able to protect the brain or so the claim has been made. Which reminds me, I was going to suggest that to Chris for his diabetes diagnosis. Potassium intake has to be regulated I believe.
    I am hoping for some kind of treatment for CFS. It's been 40 years now. People who have had to lockdown for months and find that minor constraint a horrendous burden make me laugh--or wearing a mask. If there are problems with income or they are living in 400 square feet with an abusive husband or wife and screaming children, they have a right to complain. Otherwise, (I feel like saying to them) take the prophylactic of lying on the couch, watching Neflix and stfu!

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    Quote Originally posted by Octopus Garden View Post
    The natural state of man is fascism.
    I sincerely hope you don't believe that. That might be the "natural state" only for power-hungry sociopaths i.e. the elite that enslaves us. Man's natural state is one of harmony, union and compassion. No one is born hating another because of their differences, it is learned. As Chris Hedges says, Trump is an incompetent fascist and both of the political parties might be paving a way for a competent fascist.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4guqlK6ieTc
    Last edited by Wind, 24th November 2020 at 22:05.

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    Wind,

    Let me rephrase that. The natural state of large groups is fascism, because the aggressive eventually dominate all of the meek mild and kind. That's why we have a legal system and why it should be cherished. PJ O'rourke wrote a fantastic book many years ago, where he went travelling the world and described his experiences in many different countries. He claimed there were countries, societies that 'just didn't work,' and those that did.

    The ones that did, he explained, were not linked by political ideology, regional personality, or any of the commonly held explanations. They were only similar in that they had a rule of law that people accepted and respected and followed.

    And I absolutely don't believe we are all wired for kindness.

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    Quote Originally posted by Octopus Garden View Post
    He claimed there were countries, societies that 'just didn't work,' and those that did.
    I have no difficulty in believing that. Societies and civilizations come and go, human history is violent for sure.

    And I absolutely don't believe we are all wired for kindness.
    Not all certainly are, but most humans are in general as we are mammals and mammals are hard-wired for empathy. Psychopaths and sociopaths are actually the exception and minority, they are deviations from the natural state of being. The unforunate thing is that our current model of society encourages sociopathic and narcissistic ways of living. Especially in ultra-capitalistic countries such as USA it's about competition instead of co-operation. Also we are being lead by people who definitely should not be leading us as they themselves are highly damaged people. I really think that politicians and leaders should go through several psychological evaluations and perhaps ten ayahuasca sessions before they are able to enter the office. Imagine that! It might be a pipe dream, but I still like the idea of it.

    If people were nurtured and nourished in the right way and things were not focused on greed and profit which often equals corruption I'm almost certain that we would have societies that would thrive and would be based on mutual co-operation and compassion. The economic model which is based on scarcity and greed feels completely insane to me and yet it's something that we have settled for it in lack of a better system, or a utopia if you will. Also note that I'm not saying that money would be evil because it's not, only the love of money is.

    I think the current best economic model when it comes to equality has been social democracy and maybe I'm biased in saying that as a Scandinavian, but the amount of corruption is relatively low here. There are still quite many problems here too, perhaps just on a smaller scale compared to Banana Republics like the US. My intention with that is not to offend any American residents here, I only mean to criticize the government and corporations that rule and dominate the country. USA is modern Rome and everything revolves around it.

    Also I don't need laws to tell me what's and right and wrong, I know that instinctively and surely I'm no exception.

    Gee, I wonder what my brother would think about that as he's a trained lawyer...
    Last edited by Wind, 24th November 2020 at 23:43.

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    We're basically in agreement, Wind. I'm more of a Democratic Communist, truth be told. The only problem with that economic model is just that, hard to model a command economy. But with advanced modeling systems and quantum computing, it may be possible.

    The problem with psychopathy is this, imho. Even though it seems like a net loss to society, if a person has some traits of psychopathy, and they are nurtured properly, they are likely of the highest benefit, because they will go where the meek and mild fear to tread. They are the ground breakers, the trail blazers, the wing suit cliff jumpers!

    If psychopathy could be weeded out genetically, somehow, the consequences might also be kind of dire. We may need some of these genes in our gene pool to give us vitality.

    It's the pure psychopath that you are probably talking about and they are rare. I don't buy that they are even one in a hundred. Fewer than that. But...if they are much more clever than most and can delay gratification, or learn to delay gratification, they will dominate corporations and the political realm. So, it's problem, for sure. The more we learn about it, the better.

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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    I sincerely hope you don't believe that. That might be the "natural state" only for power-hungry sociopaths i.e. the elite that enslaves us. Man's natural state is one of harmony, union and compassion. No one is born hating another because of their differences, it is learned. As Chris Hedges says, Trump is an incompetent fascist and both of the political parties might be paving a way for a competent fascist.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4guqlK6ieTc
    Right on...Wind!

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    Quote Originally posted by Octopus Garden View Post
    Wind,

    Let me rephrase that. The natural state of large groups is fascism, because the aggressive eventually dominate all of the meek mild and kind. That's why we have a legal system and why it should be cherished. PJ O'rourke wrote a fantastic book many years ago, where he went travelling the world and described his experiences in many different countries. He claimed there were countries, societies that 'just didn't work,' and those that did.

    The ones that did, he explained, were not linked by political ideology, regional personality, or any of the commonly held explanations. They were only similar in that they had a rule of law that people accepted and respected and followed.

    And I absolutely don't believe we are all wired for kindness.
    Was he one of the folks that studied polygamy in society?
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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    Hi guys,

    I'm back from Hospital after more than two weeks.

    Boy, this covid virus is a bitch. I had pretty serious pneumonia and some other symptoms, particularly gastrointestinal ones.

    I am handling my diabetes by measuring my blood sugar levels several times a day and injecting insulin. It's possible I can go off Insulin and take drugs instead if things improve in a few months. Unfortunately covid is really disrupting the medical system and several tests I needed couldn't be done. Western Hungary, where I live, is one of the worst affected parts of the country and neighbouring Austria isn't much better.

    Still, it must be said, despite the many problems of the healthcare system here, it is holding together and the medical professionals involved are really doing a stellar job. Although they're overworked and short-staffed (most of them have gotten covid themselves at some point), I really got excellent care and I'm very grateful.

    It is in times like these (during pandemics, epidemics and other public health emergencies), that European-style universal healthcare systems really show their mettle.

    If you're American (or Chinese), you probably wouldn't believe this, but the entire two-week hospital stay and the many different treatments I received didn't cost me a penny, and all the stuff I need to treat my diabetes, such as the device to measure my blood sugar levels, the Insulin pens, the needles, inserts, holders, several months' supply of Insulin and other drugs I still need to recover from covid and pneumonia came to around 20 US dollars overall.

    Yes, it is heavily subsidised by the state, but considering how others are bankrupted in other countries in similar situations, I am really grateful for living in a European-style social democracy.

    My biggest complaint is that I only get around 60 percent of my pay for the duration of the Hospital stay, but the fact is I had no expenses whilst I was in hospital, everything was taken care of, including three decent meals a day.

    However, there are some uniquely Hungarian idiosyncracies that I must mention, which would seem laughable further West. You have to bring your own toilet paper and cutlery for instance and every hospital room I stayed in, had something broken, such as the lights in the toilet or shower curtains were missing, things like that. We're not quite a first world country, but still, I found it rather comical as these are small-ticket items, it would only require a bit more attention to detail to fix them.

    Overall though, I must say the medical staff in Hungary are excellent, at least those that haven't migrated further West yet... They seem to be a mixture of older individuals near retirement and young uns fresh out of medical school. Everyone else has apparently bolted if they were worth anything, but that (brain drain) is another topic entirely.
    Last edited by Chris, 27th November 2020 at 19:04.

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  27. #959
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
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    amazing insight for us Americans ... thanks Chris and glad you're out ...
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Was he one of the folks that studied polygamy in society?
    I think so. Not sure.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Hi guys,

    I'm back from Hospital after more than two weeks.

    Boy, this covid virus is a bitch. I had pretty serious pneumonia and some other symptoms, particularly gastrointestinal ones.

    I am handling my diabetes by measuring my blood sugar levels several times a day and injecting insulin. It's possible I can go off Insulin and take drugs instead if things improve in a few months. Unfortunately covid is really disrupting the medical system and several tests I needed couldn't be done. Western Hungary, where I live, is one of the worst affected parts of the country and neighbouring Austria isn't much better.

    Still, it must be said, despite the many problems of the healthcare system here, it is holding together and the medical professionals involved are really doing a stellar job. Although they're overworked and short-staffed (most of them have gotten covid themselves at some point), I really got excellent care and I'm very grateful.

    It is in times like these (during pandemics, epidemics and other public health emergencies), that European-style universal healthcare systems really show their mettle.

    If you're American (or Chinese), you probably wouldn't believe this, but the entire two-week hospital stay and the many different treatments I received didn't cost me a penny, and all the stuff I need to treat my diabetes, such as the device to measure my blood sugar levels, the Insulin pens, the needles, inserts, holders, several months' supply of Insulin and other drugs I still need to recover from covid and pneumonia came to around 20 US dollars overall.

    Yes, it is heavily subsidised by the state, but considering how others are bankrupted in other countries in similar situations, I am really grateful for living in a European-style social democracy.

    My biggest complaint is that I only get around 60 percent of my pay for the duration of the Hospital stay, but the fact is I had no expenses whilst I was in hospital, everything was taken care of, including three decent meals a day.

    However, there are some uniquely Hungarian idiosyncracies that I must mention, which would seem laughable further West. You have to bring your own toilet paper and cutlery for instance and every hospital room I stayed in, had something broken, such as the lights in the toilet or shower curtains were missing, things like that. We're not quite a first world country, but still, I found it rather comical as these are small-ticket items, it would only require a bit more attention to detail to fix them.

    Overall though, I must say the medical staff in Hungary are excellent, at least those that haven't migrated further West yet... They seem to be a mixture of older individuals near retirement and young uns fresh out of medical school. Everyone else has apparently bolted if they were worth anything, but that (brain drain) is another topic entirely.
    So happy for you, Chris. And lovely to hear about your hospital system. Just watched Bill Maher discussing medicare for all and dismissing it because it would require too many cuts to other agencies, then he named a few agencies. But not once did he or any of his panel members mention cutting the military budget or raising taxes. Federal taxes in the U.S are crazy low. So the whole talk was, "well yeah, 70% of Americans want it, but it's just not possible." Seriously. If Hungary can do it, the U.S certainly can.

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