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Thread: Coronavirus with an R0 of 3 or beyond

  1. #376
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Yesterday's stats ─ I don't have any numbers for today...



    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  3. #377
    Senior Member Hungary
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    In local news, the entire world is reporting on Hungary's so-called Palpatine law, which gives the government, open-ended emergency powers to rule by decree, to be handed back to parliament at a time of its own choosing. Whilst I see this as a potentially dangerous power-grab from the executive, other countries, including the Uk, France and Italy have introduced similar or even more draconian measures without receiving the same barrage of criticism for it. I guess it is the open-ended nature of these emergency powers that worries democracy watchers. I'm worried, but I suspect the government will hand these emergency powers back once the crisis has passed, if for nothing else to take out the wind from the sails of the opposition for the 2022 elections. Despite some of the over-the-top rhetoric, Hungary is still a Democracy, albeit under a state of emergency, but in terms of actual measures on the ground, they have been relatively mild compared to the likes of France and Italy and enjoy wide support from the population.

    I agree with Mike Adams' assessment above that such measures are unfortunately necessary to save many lives, but we have to be super-vigilant and hold governments to account in fully rolling back these emergency powers.

    I mentioned a while ago that some friends of mine, a couple, lost their business overnight and couldn't even pay rent any more as the hostels they were servicing in Austria all closed down. They started a new business delivering groceries for individual buyers so they don't have to leave the house. Well, this is how long their new business lasted, as both of them are now seriously ill with coronavirus symptoms. They were told to just self-isolate until they get better (or worse) and won't be tested unless they're hospitalised. So, this is how the Hungarian Government keeps official Cov infection numbers so low. Officially, we only have a few hundred cases, but most people suspect that's several orders of magnitude too low.

    BTW, I know they were desperate for money, but personally I would have considered this venture far too risky in the midst of the epidemic. Doing multiple shopping runs in a day and being exposed to hundreds of people was just asking for trouble. BTW, the guy's dad is a notable doctor at the largest Hungarian military hospital, so he should have known better, but unfortunately, even his dad is still in total denial about the seriousness of this epidemic. As far as I can tell, he's still in the "It's just the Flu, Bro!" stage of pandemic acceptance (or denial).

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  5. #378
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    crazy, I saw a report yesterday that a blood test has been implemented that will find COVID-19 antibodies indicating infection and recovery. They did an initial test of 700 people with preliminary results indicating 2 had been infected and recovered.

    Speaking of math, those numbers indicate a viral penetration of .5% (a half percent)...It would seem we have a long way to go...
    "A large infusion of cash will cure most forms of fanatacism" - Thumbnail Biographies

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  7. #379
    Senior Member Hungary
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    Also, this just came in from the white house:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/whit...cisions-2020-3

    It would seem the best case scenario now is 100.000-240.000 deaths in the US. Without mitigation it could go as high as 2.2 million. These numbers are based on the Imperial College London study I posted here several weeks ago. It is those terrifying projections that changed the minds of both Trump and Boris, reportedly. Nobody wants to be responsible for a couple of million dead, no matter how narcissistic they are.

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  9. #380
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    yes, and those numbers outstrip The Spanish Flu by a pretty big margin. With a best case scenario, no, but we are a hundred years later.
    "A large infusion of cash will cure most forms of fanatacism" - Thumbnail Biographies

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  11. #381
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    I just Skyped with a guy from Taiwan, he says they are still commuting to work...because their government doesn't believe anything China says...
    "A large infusion of cash will cure most forms of fanatacism" - Thumbnail Biographies

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  13. #382
    Senior Member Amanda's Avatar
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    Great to see this thread moving along. I've been invited to participate in an interview - round table style. I've been researching and looking at various aspects of the current global event. The interview is being conducted by a professional so there is a schedule in place and I can add my suggestions - which I have done so - no surprises for those who know me. Children and specific concerns of specific aspects of societal rights.

    I have been reading and speaking with friends who are specialists with academic/scientific qualifications. I'm looking at all theories and perspectives - well as many as my Cognition can recognise and comprehend in the short time I have to prepare. Interview is tomorrow (Friday in Australia) my understanding is it will be recorded and edited. Participants are from UK - America (distance between locations) and Australia - and - there is a variety of personality and expertise.

    I have been looking at statistics and scouring social media. I have spoken to friends about their specific concerns. I have contacts as a Child Abuse Whistleblower that include a medical professional at the forefront here in Australia - working daily in intensive care. I have contacts that give a variety of perspectives.

    In Australia I managed to print off the legislation as soon as it was gazetted. Quick lesson for those who may not know (educated guess is it will be the same in all countries) when Government passes an Act - it is printed in the Government Gazette. Literally - as soon as the ink hits the paper - it becomes law. I only know this because of my education and first person experience as an operational police officer. It works thus: The new law is first distributed to those professionals who will be applying it and then it seeps out into society. Citizens are asleep when the ink hits the paper and learn as they commit the offence - sometimes.

    I learned less than an hour ago (contact in the area of politics) that there are two additional acts in Australia. More for me to study - but - one is not yet available. Via their titles - appear to be fiscal in nature.

    I have learned a lot via this thread and will continue to learn.

    The two facts I can state here are these:

    1. There is an illness.

    2. Two personality types are emerging. Those who are calm and those who are aggressive.


    There is an excellent article that caught my eye yesterday. Site is sott.net. The title of the article is: 10 More Experts Critising the Coronavirus panic. All of the experts appear authentic. It is a compelling read. The first line of the article includes this; ... here are ten more expert voices, drowned out or disregarded by the mainstream narrative, offering their take on the coronavirus outbreak. Date = 28th March 2020 .

    I am looking at the science, which includes Laws of Bergonie and Tribondeau.

    I am looking at theories of radiation and 5G. I have printed off an article I chanced upon titled: Acute Radiation Syndrome: A Fact Sheet for Clinicians. (NB: Syndrome is used in medicine to describe a cluster of symptoms when the word disease is not applied. Yet I know of someone with a rare and specific syndrome - and - it is listed as an auto-immune disease.)

    Amid my research on Covid 19 global statistics and my own application of mathematics I thought about historic pandemics. The Black Plague is historically recorded as having reduced the global population from 80 million to 30 million. Just a snippet of historical fact.

    Thanks for this thread. As always Malcolm et al - thanks for the safe place to express myself.


    Much Respect - Amanda


    NB: Back to my research and all my reference books for me.

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  15. #383
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Really, panic is never necessary. I use to coach my daughter about 'game-playing' and I once told her, "Never panic, mobilize". She never forgot that lesson and is most extremely calm in tight situations...sometimes so much so, it is scary...

    Aragorn, you don't think you're infected, God forbid!?
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  17. #384
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Aragorn, you don't think you're infected, God forbid!?
    I don't think so, no. If I am, then it's only affecting me very mildly, and that would be illogical for someone with an immune system as weak as mine. It was probably just stress ─ my blood pressure was up as well.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  19. #385
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    lol, not really funny, but I'm hearing that...

    Wuhan offices have gone back to work.
    "A large infusion of cash will cure most forms of fanatacism" - Thumbnail Biographies

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  21. #386
    Senior Member Hungary
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    WOW, made the mistake of reading the last page of Project Avalon's Coronavirus thread, which I thought was pretty good at the beginning and it has been totally taken over by the denialists. Some of these people I know and I honestly thought they were smarter than that. They are still saying it's no worse than the flu, it isn't real, caused by 5G, etc...

    I don't know what will need to happen for these people to wake up, but they really need to move beyond the denial stage and into acceptance.

    Honestly, I'm so fed up with the whole "alternative community" now, much of it has been totally discredited and so many have been taken in by the "Coronavirus is a Hoax" hoax.

    I'm really at a loss to even describe the state of mind these people are in. What can we even call it? It is just so far removed from reality and the denial is on a level I have never seen before.

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  23. #387
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    WOW, made the mistake of reading the last page of Project Avalon's Coronavirus thread, which I thought was pretty good at the beginning and it has been totally taken over by the denialists. Some of these people I know and I honestly thought they were smarter than that. They are still saying it's no worse than the flu, it isn't real, caused by 5G, etc...
    Yes, it's very, very bad. But Bill and the mods are going to clean up that thread and split off all of the denialist stuff into separate threads. We're currently talking about it on the Project Avalon mod chat on Discord, and it has actually been a recurring topic there for over a week already. Bill himself is also fed up with the negationists, but given the circumference of (and activity on) the thread, it takes a lot of planning to sort it all out.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    I don't know what will need to happen for these people to wake up, but they really need to move beyond the denial stage and into acceptance.

    Honestly, I'm so fed up with the whole "alternative community" now, much of it has been totally discredited and so many have been taken in by the "Coronavirus is a Hoax" hoax.
    I share your pain, Chris. If it wasn't for my responsibilities here, at Eye-Rise and at Project Avalon, and the friends I've made along the way, I would have already walked out of this so-called "alternative community" over a year ago, when the Trump mania really started breaking loose.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    I'm really at a loss to even describe the state of mind these people are in. What can we even call it? It is just so far removed from reality and the denial is on a level I have never seen before.
    Mass hysteria. It's the exact same group of people as who support Trump and who reject vaccines ─ the alt-right, the cynics, the knee-jerkers and the self-inflated egos. And it is no different from how Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler and Francisco Franco managed to hypnotize the masses in their respective countries during the first half of the twentieth century, or the success of the far-right here in the Flanders at the last elections. It was the same target audience, and they reacted in the same way.

    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  25. #388
    Senior Member giovonni's Avatar
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    Thinking

    Just a a followup ...

    Personally i left the so-called alternative community awhile back ..

    I prefer referring to the original descriptive of those early folks -

    As in the 'Awoke Community,' the alternatives are just parasites.

    IMO - Bill's House is way over due for a through cleansing.

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  27. #389
    Senior Member giovonni's Avatar
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  29. #390
    Senior Member Hungary
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Yes, it's very, very bad. But Bill and the mods are going to clean up that thread and split off all of the denialist stuff into separate threads. We're currently talking about it on the Project Avalon mod chat on Discord, and it has actually been a recurring topic there for over a week already. Bill himself is also fed up with the negationists, but given the circumference of (and activity on) the thread, it takes a lot of planning to sort it all out.
    I honestly don't envy the task...

    I share your pain, Chris. If it wasn't for my responsibilities here, at Eye-Rise and at Project Avalon, and the friends I've made along the way, I would have already walked out of this so-called "alternative community" over a year ago, when the Trump mania really started breaking loose.
    Hmm, yes, although some were highly suspect before that. For instance, I always thought Infowars might be a Russian propaganda front and I have not been disabused of that notion so far...

    Mass hysteria. It's the exact same group of people as who support Trump and who reject vaccines ─ the alt-right, the cynics, the knee-jerkers and the self-inflated egos. And it is no different from how Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler and Francisco Franco managed to hypnotize the masses in their respective countries during the first half of the twentieth century, or the success of the far-right here in the Flanders at the last elections. It was the same target audience, and they reacted in the same way.

    I'm beginning to think that this is worse than that. After all, most of the original Nazis and Fascists were around when the Spanish Flu hit and far as I'm aware none of them thought that it was a hoax, some sort of conspiracy or the result of those devilish AM Radio Waves.

    This is a completely new level of unhinged and I think you really have to go back to the black plague or the witch hunts to find equivalent mass hysteria and denial of reality. I don't want to sound negative, but the current pandemic (once it really hits, we probably haven't seen the worst of it yet) and the accompanying Greater Depression is likely to make the denialism and unhingedness far worse and much more widespread.

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