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Thread: Coronavirus with an R0 of 3 or beyond

  1. #1186
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    Some more perspective on this virus.

    Should definitive evidence come out indicting the lab in Wuhan, or any other facility, it wouldn't in any way redeem Trump’s performance. His failure not just to take effective action, but to block effective action, was entirely independent of the virus’ origin. The lab leak theory is a distraction.

    But even as a distraction, it has a purpose: undermining faith in the experts who have, from the outset, pointed out that the most likely route of transmission was zoonotic transfer. It’s a punt, being undertaken by the same team that is currently taking action to block public health officials from taking effective action against future pandemics and preventing any restrictions that would encourage the use of vaccines.

    There are currently 219 viruses known to infect humans. Of those, the number that infected humans by zoonotic transfer is approximately 219. The number known to have entered the human population after first passing through a lab is 0. That doesn’t mean there have not been lab accidents with known viruses. There have been many lab accidents with known viruses. Some of them extremely serious. But that’s a very different thing from blaming a lab for the first incidence of a new infection.
    Multiple outlets, including many that should know better, have pushed stories in the last few days that suggest the lab escape theory is supported by new evidence or is gaining adherents in the scientific community. Driving this idea are claims by former CDC Director Robert Redfield, an article from the Wall Street Journal claiming “exquisite” intelligence about researchers in Wuhan falling ill, unsupported statements from scientists not directly involved in coronavirus research, and papers from scam artists pretending to be scientists.

    Asked about the supposed new evidence in support of the lab leak theory, the scientist appointed by the World Health Organizations to investigate the origins of the virus put it succinctly. They are still working to discover that origin, and when it comes to the lab leak theory, “This ‘growing body of evidence’—we haven’t seen it.”
    As Aragorn has already discussed,

    Teams of scientists examined the genetic sequence of the virus, and despite seeing new features that at first made them worry that the virus might have been engineered in some way, within weeks “the scientists unanimously concluded there was no evidence of lab manipulation.”

    Even after scientists had come to agree with the early WHO announcement that the virus had most likely been transmitted to humans from animals, the effort to prove otherwise continued from “Public health officials, intelligence officers and officials at the State Department and the National Security Council.” It was actually a State Department website belonging to the U.S. Embassy in Georgia that published the “fact sheet” which formed the basis of the Wall Street Journal article. That sheet was posted by an unknown State Department employee in the days just before Trump left office.
    Not providing evidence of the lab escape theory was seen as a weak position that represented risk to agencies and individuals. Even so, those agencies were not able to actually find a “smoking gun” that connected the virus and the lab.

    There are certainly experts who don’t believe that the features of the virus show any sign of human manipulation. That includes NIH Director Francis Collins, who says that “An expert trying to design an even more effective coronavirus would never have come up with this design.”

    The way SARS-CoV-2 attacks human cells is genuinely novel, and not something simply borrowed from other related viruses. It’s the unique result of evolution.

    At the same time Collins supports the continued search for the origin of the virus and explicitly does not rule out the lab escape theory. Neither does Anthony Fauci. Neither does the World Health Organization, That’s why both the U.S. government and the WHO are continuing with investigations into the origin of the virus.
    However, people should be prepared for it to take years to get that answer. And when we do, it may seem to come out of left field. After all, while scientists have generally agreed that an outbreak at the Wuhan Seafood Market represents the first-known superspreader event for COVID-19, this could be several weeks and many miles removed from the actual origin of the disease. The SARS-CoV-2 virus may have been transmitted from animal to human at a site in rural China hundreds of miles from where that first outbreak emerged. Future surveys may find antibodies of a related disease in some wholly different region of the country, leading to the eventual deamination of an animal source—that’s what happened with SARS. It may also turn out that the virus came from just nine miles down the road, at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

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  3. #1187
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    Bad news regarding the covering up of the side-effects of spike protein vaccines, which is all of them, except for the Chinese ones.

    This is only anecdotal so far, but there are very serious concerns regarding the cytotoxicity of spike proteins, used in most Covid vaccines. Apparently, the very high levels of protection given by these types of vaccines (above 90 percent, as opposed to only 50 percent for the Chinese vaccines, which don't use spike proteins, but stick to the old and tested method of employing whole inactivated viruses) are apparently caused by a cytokine storm of sorts, an adverse immune reaction, which extends to the whole body and can be deadly or cause permanent damage. In theory, vaccines are only supposed to cause a localised immune reaction, but there is evidence now, coming from the people who actually invented the mRNA vaccination method, which remains largely untested, that the whole body is involved in an adverse immune reaction with an alarmingly high number of serious, even life-changing side effects.

    Although I grumbled a bit about getting the far less effective and old school Sinopharm vaccination, listening to this, I'm sure glad I got that one. The most alarming aspect of this whole story, is how once again, MM and the tech giants are actively censoring the dissemination of this very important information, delaying the review process. The original Brett Weinstein podcast was yanked from Youtube, but this segment is still available.


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    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    I think some of the research indicates that the adverse reactions are a lower percentage of people that would die from the virus ... considerably lower, like a thousandth percentage. The situation in India is a little more dire. Die from the vaccine they use or die from the virus ... it's more of a toss up. People aren't wearing masks in Houston Texas but the India variant (started in UK I believe) is taking hold in the U.S. and people aren't wary of it. There is a spike in cases but far less serious than before.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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    Quote Originally posted by BeastOfBologna View Post
    I think some of the research indicates that the adverse reactions are a lower percentage of people that would die from the virus ... considerably lower, like a thousandth percentage. The situation in India is a little more dire. Die from the vaccine they use or die from the virus ... it's more of a toss up. People aren't wearing masks in Houston Texas but the India variant (started in UK I believe) is taking hold in the U.S. and people aren't wary of it. There is a spike in cases but far less serious than before.
    The problem is, we don't actually know what percentage of people suffer adverse side effects from getting these spike protein vaccines. It is new technology and has been rushed into production without going through the entire rigorous decade-long trial and approval process. It seemed like a good idea at the time and maybe it saved a lot of lives, but it is now clear that the side-effects are far more serious and widespread than originally thought.

    To Indicate how dangerous cytokine storms can be, which is an overreaction to a foreign organism by the immune system, cytokine storms were the main reason the Spanish Flu was so deadly and killed mostly younger people. The people with strong immune systems are the most affected, whereas older people would see less of a reaction. Based on this, I would say that everybody below 60 should probably only be getting deactivated whole virus vaccines for now, and Spike Protein vaccines should only go to those over 60. It certainly seems like a bad idea to give them to children. The problem is, that currently only China makes these old school vaccines, Hungary will start producing them in a new vaccine factory next year. Due to this, big pharma is never going to acknowledge the problem and will fight tooth and nail, employing whatever censorship and cancel culture necessary to stop this from getting out.

    As for the Delta variant, it is different from the original British (Kent variant), it evolved into its current form in India, but due to the close links between the two countries, the UK is now the worst hit by it.

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    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    The problem is, we don't actually know what percentage of people suffer adverse side effects from getting these spike protein vaccines. It is new technology and has been rushed into production without going through the entire rigorous decade-long trial and approval process. It seemed like a good idea at the time and maybe it saved a lot of lives, but it is now clear that the side-effects are far more serious and widespread than originally thought.

    To Indicate how dangerous cytokine storms can be, which is an overreaction to a foreign organism by the immune system, cytokine storms were the main reason the Spanish Flu was so deadly and killed mostly younger people. The people with strong immune systems are the most affected, whereas older people would see less of a reaction. Based on this, I would say that everybody below 60 should probably only be getting deactivated whole virus vaccines for now, and Spike Protein vaccines should only go to those over 60. It certainly seems like a bad idea to give them to children. The problem is, that currently only China makes these old school vaccines, Hungary will start producing them in a new vaccine factory next year. Due to this, big pharma is never going to acknowledge the problem and will fight tooth and nail, employing whatever censorship and cancel culture necessary to stop this from getting out.

    As for the Delta variant, it is different from the original British (Kent variant), it evolved into its current form in India, but due to the close links between the two countries, the UK is now the worst hit by it.
    I hope it doesn't turn out like that ... but we're well aware of what to expect ... that's for sure. Let us know if you see some numbers.
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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  11. #1191
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    Health care 'breaking point': Cox confirms some Springfield COVID-19 patients transferred to St. Louis, Kansas City

    If you live in southwest Missouri, hospital executives say acquiring a severe case of COVID-19 could now mean a stay in St. Louis or Kansas City, as the global pandemic that has killed 3.9 million people continues to stretch Missouri hospital staffing toward what one statewide association recently called a "breaking point" in its 2021 workforce report.
    Springfield-area COVID cases up 44 percent in two weeks

    The news comes as Delta variant COVID-19 infections are surging in southwest Missouri, even as large swaths of residents have opted not to take advantage of vaccines shown to prevent or lessen the impact of the disease by providing immunity.

    "The Department continues to work with our partners at the CDC, local public health agencies and healthcare systems across the state to provide all available resources and analysis. We continue to promote and encourage vaccination as the most effective mitigation step the public can take to stop this virus in its tracks."

    Dillon, with the state hospital association, said Missouri is a "mixed bag" as far as vaccination rates: Some communities approach 60 percent, others are less than 20 percent.

    He explained, "The virus doesn’t respect the boundaries of political subdivisions like counties, states or regions, and with the greater chance of transmission with the Delta variant, hot spots will be inundated with patients."

    Dillon added that because effective vaccines are now available, COVID-19 hospitalizations are "largely unnecessary."
    More at the Springfield News-Leader.

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  13. #1192
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    People said they wanted herd immunity. But then they didn't want the vaccine. You don't get herd immunity by continuing to get sick and allowing the virus to continue to mutate. Hmmmmmm...


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    Hi everyone, long time no see...

    Been busy, working on a book right now, more for myself than for any other reason.

    I am reading increasingly concerning reports that mRNA vaccines are causing a lot of excess deaths and are actually making people sick. I have no idea what to make of this, I haven't been able to find a reliable source yet, but anecdotal evidence does seem to exist, that people who have gotten fully vaccinated got seriously ill with covid symptoms just a couple of weeks after getting their second shots. I also came down with flu-like symptoms two weeks after getting my second shot, though in my case it was the Sinopharm one.

    I am trying to find reliable info on this, but it is proving impossible due to big tech suppression. Same with using Invermectin as an effective treatment, which was sidelined in favour of much more lucrative (and untested) vaccines.

    If anyone has reliable info on what is going on with excess deaths and illness caused by vaccines, I would appreciate if you could link to it here. Conspiracy sites are plastered all over with this info, but they don't provide reliable sources to verify their claims, so I just don't know who I can trust.

    There seems to be a narrative emerging, that big pharma and media conspired to suppress effective covid treatments in favour of a multi-year vaccination drive, where everyone will have to vaccinated every 4-6 months. This is of course highly lucrative for vaccina makers and they're making a killing, financially.

    Trouble, is, every single vaccine has been given emergency approval due to the pandemic and none of them have gone through long-term trials to see what long-term damage (if any) might be caused, especially by messenger RNA vaccines, which are completely new and untested technology, reprogramming cells to produce spike proteins all over the body, which could be toxic, especially if the accumulate in organs, such as the heart or lungs.

    Several of my friends, who have gotten the Pfizer jab, young and healthy, are now suffering from symptoms similar to long covid, but not those that have gotten the Sinopharm vaccine, like I have.

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  17. #1194
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    I am reading increasingly concerning reports that mRNA vaccines are causing a lot of excess deaths and are actually making people sick. I have no idea what to make of this, I haven't been able to find a reliable source yet, but anecdotal evidence does seem to exist, that people who have gotten fully vaccinated got seriously ill with covid symptoms just a couple of weeks after getting their second shots. I also came down with flu-like symptoms two weeks after getting my second shot, though in my case it was the Sinopharm one.

    I am trying to find reliable info on this, but it is proving impossible due to big tech suppression. Same with using Invermectin as an effective treatment, which was sidelined in favour of much more lucrative (and untested) vaccines.
    Ivermectin was touted by the alt-right as being an effective treatment for Covid-19, as the successor to their earlier-proposed treatment with hydroxychloroquine, which had of course been debunked. Yet, the same holds true for Ivermectin as for hydroxychloroquine, and this was scientifically proven. In other words, it doesn't work, and science still remains the most insufficiently recommended field of education among those people.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    If anyone has reliable info on what is going on with excess deaths and illness caused by vaccines, I would appreciate if you could link to it here. Conspiracy sites are plastered all over with this info, but they don't provide reliable sources to verify their claims, so I just don't know who I can trust.
    Perhaps the fact that I myself don't monitor any conspiracy theory websites would then explain how come I haven't heard of these mass die-offs yet. But then again, what do I know, because by the same token I had also never been informed about the mass arrests and military tribunals against the Bush family, the Clintons and all those other shape-shifting reptilian Pizzagate™ conspirators from the 136th dimension, you know?

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    There seems to be a narrative emerging, that big pharma and media conspired to suppress effective covid treatments in favour of a multi-year vaccination drive, where everyone will have to vaccinated every 4-6 months. This is of course highly lucrative for vaccina makers and they're making a killing, financially.
    That narrative is once again false, as was to be expected with anything coming from the alt-right.

    What is true however, is that getting vaccinated appears to not prevent one from becoming a carrier and infecting other people, and that the vaccines also seem to be rather ineffective ─ or at any rate, far less effective ─ against the Delta Variant, which emerged in India but which is now more or less taking the world by storm. The Delta Variant is more infectious than any of the other variants and also appears to have a higher fatality ratio, even among young people.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Trouble, is, every single vaccine has been given emergency approval due to the pandemic and none of them have gone through long-term trials to see what long-term damage (if any) might be caused, especially by messenger RNA vaccines, which are completely new and untested technology, reprogramming cells to produce spike proteins all over the body, which could be toxic, especially if the accumulate in organs, such as the heart or lungs.
    This is correct, yes. And then there's the bureaucracy at work, when people who are known and can prove to have certain allergies that would legitimately exclude the use of a particular Covid-19 vaccine, are forbidden from getting a different Covid-19 vaccine because of logistical reasons and trade agreements.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Several of my friends, who have gotten the Pfizer jab, young and healthy, are now suffering from symptoms similar to long covid, but not those that have gotten the Sinopharm vaccine, like I have.
    So far everyone of whom I know that they got a Covid-19 vaccine ─ it doesn't matter which one, because the same applies to Johnson & Johnson, AstraZeneca and Pfizer ─ has developed flu-like symptoms either within about half a day to a week after getting the shots, and those symptoms would last for about two to four days.

    And peculiarly, when I called the vaccination facility ─ you had to call in to either confirm or reschedule your appointment, or to opt out ─ they claimed they had never heard of this, which tells me that there was a political PR campaign at work, i.e. they needed to get as many people vaccinated as possible for statistical reasons, with complete disregard for the consequences. After all, they had already goofed up several times during the pandemic, and it was going to be politically damaging if they were to miss the quota and allow the virus to keep on spreading yet again. And now they're goofing up again with regard to people traveling abroad and returning to the country.

    The side-effects of the vaccine, the potential of contracting "long Covid" ─ by lack of a better name ─ and the fact that I know very well what it's like to get sick with Covid-19 twice and suffer some of the more long-term consequences, are what made me decide to not get the vaccine. After all, if I were to contract the disease a third time, then I'd still be less of a hazard to my fellow human beings than those who don't even respect the prescribed rules of hygiene and social distance. So there was no point in getting myself sick again "in order to not get sick again".

    There does however seem to be no room left for nuance anymore. You are either this or you are that, to the extreme in both cases. Either you are fully onboard with vaccination and the vaccine formulas as they currently exist, or you are labeled an anti-vaxxer. And given that I "refused" to get vaccinated, my name has now been added to the "anti-vaxxer" list.

    And just for the record, it doesn't have anything to do with the political left or the political right. Yes, the political far-right/alt-right are the ones spreading misinformation ─ as the matter of fact, they're actually lying through their teeth and they know it ─ but the establishment they are riling against is not left-wing. It is simply an authoritarian bureaucracy that is at least partly driven by neurotic busybodies and morally corrupt career politicians.

    The dichotomy is self-reinforcing and self-inseminating. Liars and manipulators riling against other liars and manipulators. Somebody, get me off this damn planet!


    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    I will just let you know my experience. My brother and sister-in-law both got the moderna shortly after it was available. My brother never felt ill, just a sore arm. My sister-in-law felt sick for a couple of days after the second shot.

    My husband got the pfizer. He was fine after the first one, and maybe a little under the weather after the second. He took a nap and said he didn't feel 100 percent, but that was it.

    His brother and wife got the pfizer. Neither had symptoms.

    I got the moderna. I had a sore arm after both shots and that was all.

    We recently had a family reunion and most everyone had had a vaccine. No one had been very ill. There are a couple of folks who were very cautious about getting them, I don't think they have yet.

    My son and my niece both had to get shots due to their work. Neither got ill.

    I have a friend whose husband did get very sick after his second shot. But he has no ill effects now. We saw them recently, they're both doing very well.

    That's off the top of my head.

    Personally, I've known many who've gotten very ill or died from Covid19 but not from any of the vaccines.

    Here in the states, the rising numbers of Covid deaths are occurring where the lowest vaccination rates are. It's very sad. I hear Fox News is finally starting to encourage viewers to get their shots. But it may be too little too late, when folks are already dug in and afraid.



    What is your book about, Chris? I'm intrigued.

    My husband is a writer, though it is usually poetry.
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 21st July 2021 at 11:22.

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    Regarding bureaucracy, I went to a place taking walk-ins. I got a little card. I haven't notified my health insurance company yet that I got the vaccine.

    I've been getting calls from my state asking if I'm interested in getting the vaccine. My choices include yes, maybe or I'm not interested in the vaccine. There is no option to say I already got it. I don't want to keep getting the calls. But I also don't want to be put down as a statistic that's not interested.

    In America we are losing herd immunity to diseases like measles, mumps, rubella and more because people are opting to not get vaccinated. Herd immunity does not just come from people getting sick and developing antibodies. That occurs in tandem with vaccinations.

    These new vaccines are of a different type. But mRNA technology has been around for a while. I'm not convinced that it's more or even as dangerous as the actual disease.

    I had said that my behavior wouldn't change. I do go into places unmasked now, but it depends where. If I'm near a high risk population, I'll wear it. I still want to avoid crowds because of both the unvaccinated and carriers. I don't want to inadvertently spread anything.


    Life is full of risk assessment. Many things we do are dangerous or potentially hazardous. We consume questionable food items. We breathe pollution. We are filling ourselves with micro-plastics. We have hormones and more in our meats. We drive dangerous vehicles on dangerous roads.

    Personally, my risk assessment says that the preferred risk is the vaccine, not the disease.

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    Regarding the vaccine controversy, I used to think it was just an alt-right brainfart, but now I'm not so sure any more. I'm sufficiently alarmed, that at this point I would not be willing to take an m RNA vaccine, for the reasons Brett Weinstein stated in the video I posted above a while ago and what he said on his Real Time With Bill Maher appearance. The risk to me appears too great at this point to play Guinea Pig for the Pharmaceutical industry's benefit, though I'm happy to take vaccines that are based on tried and tested technology.

    To be sure, I haven't heard of anyone suffering from serious or life-threatening after-effects from getting the vaccine within my own family, but a few friends and colleagues have reported lingering after-effects months after taking the Pfizer Shot.

    I agree with you Aragorn, that the left-right dichotomy on this issue is really frustrating.
    I just want to get the truth, but that's increasingly difficult in today's polarised word, made worse by ever-more overt big tech censorship.

    As for the book, it is largely autobiographical. I got the idea to write it after listening to some NDE accounts, some of which had been made into books and I realised how similar they were in many ways to my Kundalini Awakening experience and its aftermath. I think I also owe it to myself and perhaps the world to make a detailed account of my own profound spiritual experiences, the circumstances leading up to it, the aftermath and my conclusions on what may have happened and how it fits into what we know about reality, the afterlife, enlightenment, spiritual awakening and related topics.

    I don't expect it will ever be published, but at least it will help create some clarity for myself and if someone really wants to read about my spiritual awakening in detail, I can send them a copy of the book.

    It's actually coming around nicely, I estimate I'm about a third of the way there.

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    Senior Member BeastOfBologna's Avatar
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    I had two shots with sore arms ... I think the only real side effect I've had is that I'm getting smarter ... Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk!
    “But those who have been under the shadow, who have gone down at last to elemental things, will have a wider charity” - Herbert George Wells -

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    I have 2 different conditions. One places me at a slightly higher risk of stroke, anuerysm. The other, cfs/me, affects my immune system and I am not quite sure how it is affected. As I am virtually shut in anyway, I will take my chances. I had a flu shot 30 years ago that damned near killed me and I don't want to do that again. Taking the vaccine would be like volunteering to get sick in order to not get sick, as Aragorn describes. So, as of now, I am not willing to take it. That might change. If the fatality rate and hospitalizations climb higher percentage wise than the first wave, I will likely feel compelled to take it.

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    CFS is one reason why I won't take it and the second is that I don't trust it, I had covid probably once or twice too.

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