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Thread: Coronavirus with an R0 of 3 or beyond

  1. #76
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Highlighting in red by yours truly.

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Well, if anyone here is still interested in the Coronavirus situation, my views have gone from pessimistic to apocalyptic.

    I no longer think the pandemic can be stopped and it is probably already under way in every continent, though refusal, or in most cases inability to test is keeping the numbers artificially low. The situation in the US is particularly interesting, even though an epidemic is clearly raging in Hawaii, the CDC has withdrawn its CoV testkits as faulty, over a week ago and has yet to issue new ones. Only three states currently have the ability to even test for the virus and even they are simply not doing it. Clearly, there is a coverup of some sort going on.

    The situation is already out of control in Korea (both) and Iran as well as increasingly, Italy. I estimate, that the pandemic will reach most places in the world, in a week, perhaps two at most. Evidence is growing that this an engineered bioweapon with no known cure or vaccine, with a death rate of 2-3 percent under ideal circumstances, with those infected being taken to ICU isolation wards and getting intensive care. Absent such intensive care, which becomes the norm in pandemics and when less-developed countries are involved, it is closer to 17 percent. I am convinced that more than a billion people could easily die in this pandemic and it may just keep coming back, year after year, steadily reducing the world population until some sort of immunity is developed or some vaccine / cure is found, which may be years away.

    It seems that Quarantine measures are ineffective, absent full-blown hazmat suits and recirculated air. So, the facts are clear, this is it folks, the big event that most of us always knew was coming, the event that will put our current civilisation out of business. I don't know how long any of us we will have electricity or internet, this will probably vary locally (Wuhan has already been shut out of the internet, "to stop the spread of rumours"), but whilst we can still communicate, I want to wish all of you courage, perseverance and resilience in the trials to come. Not all of us are going to make it to the end of the year, but remember, even if you succumb to this disease, there is an afterlife and a heaven that awaits you, losing this body and this life is not the end of the world, there will be a continuation of your existence in a different realm and so death is nothing to fear.

    It was an honour and privilege to get to know all of you guys and to be part of this community. The technological means by which we can communicate is likely to go away in a matter of months and we will have to go back to good old-fashioned talking to our neighbours (or not, because they might be contagious, of course), but I will always be with you in spirit and hopefully, we'll meet again in a better world.

    I know, that at the present moment this may seem preposterous and incredibly far-fetched, but it will only be a matter of weeks until all of the above becomes generally accepted and inevitable, so just wait a few weeks before you jump to any conclusions. In the meanwhile, I will continue participating in this forum, in the short time we still have and whilst it is still possible.
    Geez Chris, you sure know how to scare the shit out of people. Yes, it's a highly worrisome phenomenon, but so have many other epidemics of late been. SARS, avian flu, swine flu, the norovirus, you name it. If you believed the sensation-horny mainstream media, then all of those diseases were slated to wipe us all from existence. Even the Y2K bug was going to kill us all, because it was going to cause all the nuclear missiles to go off on the 1st of January 2000, remember? And yet none of that happened. So instead of thinking gloom and doom, let's try looking at this from the perspective of hope, shall we?



    I'm still not convinced that the Covfefe virus ─ yeah, let's have a laugh about it, dammit! ─ would a bio-weapon, by the way. I think that's just scaremongering and more blame-seeking. If you repeat the lie long enough, then enough people will eventually come to believe it, and then it'll be declared The Truth™cfr. dixit Joseph Goebbels. And we've all seen that principle at work ad nauseam by now, both in the mainstream and within this so-called alternative community. I'm getting more than a little fed up with all the hypes.
    Appreciate the sentiment, but the logical fallacies in your argument are glaring. Do I really have to point them out? You can spot them yourself by re-reading your own post. [...]

    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Listen at the astrological report again, this should fade away in a month or so. It's gonna get a little worse for the time being and that's it.
    Astrology, really?
    Sorry Chris, but you are now engaging in master suppression techniques. You've done that before, and it's dishonest.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  3. #77
    Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    If this would be meant to be the apocalypse (which I certainly don't believe it is), then so what? Does it help to worry?

    We will die anyways and that's a plain cold fact. We just don't know when and for a reason. I will gladly meet my Maker when the time comes and I don't think that time will come in a long time. I could be wrong though and perhaps I'm biased as I am somewhat tired of this Earthly life so I don't cling to it, but I say that no fear. Remember that your thoughts, feelings and beliefs do create your reality and together all of us create this so called collective reality of ours here on Earth. So what kind of a reality would you really like to have?

    I'm saying this because I kinda used to be a Doomer and I believed many of those scary predictions about the end which is coming soon. They were always wrong, always. Then I just learned to not to care about it anymore.

    I must admit though that I still do think that in many ways humanity has exceeded it's capacity to maintain a healthy system and a way of living on Earth. We are living on a borrowed time and we are living in a system which is suffering from a terminal disease. Is it capitalism? I don't know, but greed, ignorance and selfishness are a big part of the global sickness. It's a sickness of spirit. Can the course of humanity still be reversed? Maybe, maybe not. As long as there is life there is hope. I like to believe in the Good while not having any wishful thinking anymore. It's just about how the way you see things.


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  5. #78
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    If this would be meant to be the apocalypse (which I certainly don't believe it is), then so what? Does it help to worry?

    We will die anyways and that's a plain cold fact. We just don't know when and for a reason. I will gladly meet my Maker when the time comes and I don't think that time will come in a long time. I could be wrong though and perhaps I'm biased as I am somewhat tired of this Earthly life so I don't cling to it, but I say that no fear. Remember that your thoughts, feelings and beliefs do create your reality and together all of us create this so called collective reality of ours here on Earth. So what kind of a reality would you really like to have?

    I'm saying this because I kinda used to be a Doomer and I believed many of those scary predictions about the end which is coming soon. They were always wrong, always. Then I just learned to not to care about it anymore.

    I must admit though that I still do think that in many ways humanity has exceeded it's capacity to maintain a healthy system and a way of living on Earth. We are living on a borrowed time and we are living in a system which is suffering from a terminal disease. Is it capitalism? I don't know, but greed, ignorance and selfishness are a big part of the global sickness. It's a sickness of spirit. Can the course of humanity still be reversed? Maybe, maybe not. As long as there is life there is hope. I like to believe in the Good while not having any wishful thinking anymore. It's just about how the way you see things.

    Yes, I agree.

    I also had a tendency to be attracted to apocalyptic visions and doom and gloom, though I have largely grown out of it. I guess the CoV pandemic brought those suppressed feelings rushing back in.

    Also, apologies for putting you down, I really do respect you and your opinions.

    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Highlighting in red by yours truly.






    Sorry Chris, but you are now engaging in master suppression techniques. You've done that before, and it's dishonest.
    Again, apologies, that wasn't very nice of me. I guess I went into full-blown panic mode. Admittedly, I do have a tendency to become paranoid from time-to-time.

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  7. #79
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Is it capitalism? I don't know, but greed, ignorance and selfishness are a big part of the global sickness. It's a sickness of spirit.
    I'm in full agreement here. Capitalism worked well here when mixed with traditional values where family and community were central and folks cared about their fellow countrymen. (yeah, it wasn't so ideal).

    But now that Americans (and others I imagine) are turning against each other and allowing themselves to be played by their emotions we are falling into the traps of greed/resentment, ignorance/selfishness and all the tribulations that come with it.

    I believe in the goodness of people to overcome this, but we've gone a long way in the wrong direction.

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    It's all right, Chris. I know you mean well.

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Hi Chris,

    I'm not trying to belabor the point, in fact, I stay away from astrology because it is 'scary'.

    People that haven't studied it think it is inexact...maybe...intuition is critical...but intuition is critical when any 'judgment' is made, even science has elements of 'intuition' that are critical to good science.

    Just a small example: A precise chart will repeat itself only once in 25,000. That's pretty good precision.
    "A large infusion of cash will cure most forms of fanatacism" - Thumbnail Biographies

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    Just a small local update.

    Coronavirus panic is now gripping my small town in Hungary. Shelves have been stripped bare, there is no hand sanitiser and face masks sold out weeks ago. All my co-workers are worried as the contagion has now reached neighbouring Austria and it is only a matter of time until it gets here officially, though in actuality it probably already is here. Some schools in nearby Vienna have now been Quarantined.

    I have stocked up on some essentials and certain foods with a long shelf-life, just in case, though I don't think supply disruptions will last for long, this is probably just some initial panic. If things go really south I will head out to my sister's farm.

    I haven't decided yet what I will do in case of a full-blown local outbreak, but it is possible that I will head out and try to help in some small way. I am a moderately skilled hands-on healer, though I don't know if that will really help with a viral infection, but one must try. Not too worried about catching the virus myself, but the supply disruptions and people panicking is certainly worrisome.

    What are you guys doing to prepare for the pandemic?

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    Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    It has spread to Finland too, a few cases confirmed. The media is in total frenzy now, it's really annoying.

    If I'm worried about something then it would just be the global economy. It might take a big hit.


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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    The U.S. is heading toward high alert as well...Our President says he has things well in hand.

    I'm not doing anything yet...probably won't either unless it hits close to home...plenty of online rumors regarding that.
    "A large infusion of cash will cure most forms of fanatacism" - Thumbnail Biographies

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  19. #85
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    So, again, I am not providing links any more, since all the info is now out in the open and in the mainstream.

    The latest news is that the UK's coronavirus worst case scenario plans have leaked. The government expects an 80 percent infection rate (roughly 50 million infected) and a very optimistic 1 percent death rate, with around half a million succumbing to the disease. The real death rate is of course anywhere between 2-17 percent, depending on the response, the stage of the epidemic and how overwhelmed local health services are. So, I would say 1 million dead in the UK is the best case scenario, but several million more isn't entirely out of the question either.

    It has also been confirmed by Chinese State Medical journals, that Sars-Cov-2 virus has a very unusual spike protein, essentially identical to what you can find on the HIV virus, which makes it 1000 times more likely to attach itself to human cells, hence the crazy infectiousness (an R0 of 12 or above according to the latest South Korean data) and the reason the worst-case scenario is now the central one we should prepare for. Good news is, if you are young and healthy as well as a non-smoker, chances are you will survive and most will only experience mild, flu-like symptoms.

    Here in Hungary, I am confident that the response from the government and the health system will be non-existent. We probably have the worst healthcare system in Europe, barring such basket cases as Ukraine. Most of the doctors and nurses that still haven't left the country (most have moved to other, richer EU states years ago, if they were any good) are old and often past retirement age, only staying in their jobs, because they know otherwise healthcare services would completely collapse (even more than they already have) and cause many people to suffer.

    Based on the state of our healthcare system, the general ineptitude of our government as well as the very high percentage of elderly and those with underlying health problems, I estimate the number of dead in Hungary will exceed one million, out of a population of ten million. You can easily do the same calculations for your country, which should give you an indication of what to expect.

    The worldwide calculation has been updated based on the latest data as follow.

    World Population: 7,7 Billion
    Expected Infection Rate: 80 percent
    Expected number of people infected: 6,1 Billion
    Expected Death rate, taking into account, that the response and survival rates will be far worse in most countries than China: 3-17 percent
    Expected number of deaths overall: 180 million - 1 billion

    This is assuming that the pandemic will not reoccur and reinfect people as they develop immunity, but the evidence actually contradicts that, so worse overall death rates over the course of the years and decades are highly likely.
    Last edited by Chris, 27th February 2020 at 11:23.

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    This is an excellent interview with Dr Francis Boyle about the possible origins of the US Biological Weapons Research Programme in the research of the Axis powers during WW2, not least in Nazi Germany, which continued in the US through operation paperclip, but more importantly by the imperial Japanese in Manchuria, through their infamous and famously inhuman experimentation on the Chinese population. Although the Japanese scientists involved were not allowed to move to the US and continue their work, unlike their German counterparts, their research papers and conclusions were shipped over to the US where they were no doubt used by the very same Nazi scientists that have been repatriated through operation paperclip. This is actually a little detail that has completely escaped my attention until I saw this interview and may explain why the current Coronavirus bioweapon was deployed in China first, with a possible second wave or even mutated strain in Iran. Yes, that is all just speculation, but I do see a credible narrative being formed with all the pieces slowly coming together.

    https://banned.video/watch?id=5e571291e53f4d001c3ce08f

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  23. #87
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    A somewhat alarmist article from Hal Turner, however the claims made are all legit and the mainstream news / science sources that reported them check out.

    read:https://halturnerradioshow.com/...-rest-will-die

    Since the outbreak of a "novel coronavirus" in Wuhan, China in Mid-December, the disease has spread wildly, killing many who become infected. A LOT has been learned about this illness, but YOU are not being told. Here's what YOU need to know . . . because your LIFE depends on you knowing:
    This coronavirus, now named COVID-19, is the worst public health crisis since the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918. Almost no one alive today has lived through anything like this, and literally MILLIONS worldwide, will NOT LIVE through this.

    DISEASE FACTS:
    This disease has an eighty-three percent (83%) infection rate. This means that if 100 people are merely EXPOSED to it, 83 will get sick.
    Of those who get sick, about half will get so sick, they will need hospital care.
    Of those who need a hospital, about half will end up needing INTENSIVE CARE due to fluid build-up in their lungs (Pneumonia).
    Of those who need INTENSIVE CARE, and who GET THAT CARE, fifteen percent (15%) will die.
    So, using the example above of 100 people exposed, we get 83 who get sick, about half (40) need a hospital, half of those (20), need ICU, and of those, 3 die.

    ULTRA CONTAGIOUS
    This new disease is an absolute NIGHTMARE in its ability to spread. It's horrifying.
    It spreads the way other diseases can, through coughing, sneezing, and the like. So if you are walking down the street, and an infected person a block away sneezes or coughs, the wind can carry that virus right to . . . YOU.
    Similarly, if you're in a store shopping, and an infected person coughed or sneezed minutes earlier, and several store aisles away, the heating and air conditioning system can blow that virus all over the store, and as you are minding your business, it blow onto YOU.
    This virus can live OUTSIDE A PERSON, in the air or on surfaces, for upwards of NINE DAYS!!!!!
    That means the counter at a store cashier, or in a restaurant, or at a bank teller, or at an ATM can be contaminated as well. Worse still, door handles. You're out doing business and pull open the door to a company or store, and you have no way on knowing that an infected person grabbed that same handle a day earlier. Now, his virus is on YOUR hand. When you touch your face, blow your nose, grab a hamburger, hot dog or sandwich and eat it without washing your hands, POW, you're infected.

    INFECTING OTHERS WITHOUT SYMPTOMS
    A number of people who contract this virus start shedding it to others BEFORE THEY GET SYMPTOMS. So the infected person DOES NOT KNOW he's sick, but begins spreading it to other people!!!
    Doctors measure how many people are typically infected by one sick person, and they record that as R0 (pronounced "R naught"). The R naught for this virus is between R4 and R6. So one infected person can be expected to infect between four and six other people! ! ! ! That is a catastrophic level of contagiousness.

    Here's where things get absolutely nuts:
    THIS disease also "sheds" from infected people via urine and feces. So, when an infected person goes to the bathroom and flushes, the swirling toilet water thrusts a small torrent of tiny mist all over the place and in that mist . . . . is virus! You walk into the bathroom and smell another person's "stink" and POW, you're infected.
    As the toilet contents go down into the sewers and head out to the sewer treatment plant, some of the water evaporates and comes out the holes in manhole covers across town. In that water vapor . . . is virus. So people on ONE side of town, can get a blast of virus because another person on the OTHER side of town, took a dump while infected, and flushed, and the virus comes out of the sewer!
    In one apartment building in Hong Kong, a sewer vent pipe in a wall had a crack in it. Virus went up that vent pipe, got out a crack, and infected people in apartments several floors away from an infected family! (STORY HERE)
    Here is where things get REALLY UGLY . . .

    HOSPITAL FACTS:
    In the United States, there are only 2.4 hospital beds per 1,000 people. (SOURCE)
    So, using the numbers above about the 83% infection rate, if 1,000 people get exposed, 830 will get sick. About half, 400, will need hospital, and half of those, 200, will need ICU. But there are only 2.4 hospital beds per 1,000 people.
    Now, you're a smart person. How many people can the 2.4 hospital beds hold? Yep, 2.4.
    So when we have 400 people sick with this COVID-19 virus who need hospital, and the 2.4 beds are full, that leaves 398 who CANNOT GET HOSPITAL CARE.
    In Wuhan, China, the epicenter of this outbreak, people who needed hospital care, but who could not get it because the hospitals were full, suffered a death rate of 61.5% (Source)
    If that just sent shivers up your spine, it should have. This is a terrible reality. And it's here; in America, now.
    Because when you apply the fatality rate for those who died in Wuhan because they could not get care, the numbers then look like this per 1,000:
    1000 exposed = 830 Infected.
    Half need hospital = 400
    Half of those need ICU = 200
    Only 2.4 beds = 397 WITHOUT CARE
    of the 397 who need care but cannot get it because hospitals are full, 61.5% die = 244 DEAD, per 1,000 infected.
    This is why a LEAKED Government document in the United Kingdom, shows the UK government making plans for MASS GRAVES!
    This is also why China recently bought -- and deployed -- forty (40) portable cremation furnaces for Wuhan. Each furnace can cremate 50 people per day. Times forty furnaces equals 2,000 bodies PER DAY.

    NEW DEVELOPMENTS:
    Since the outbreak began, scientists have studied this virus like no other, and what they're finding is that the virus appears to be "bi-phasic." It happens in TWO phases, similar to the way ANTHRAX happens. (STORY)
    The first phase causes fever, cough, congestion in the lungs, and myalgia (muscle twitches and pain). Then, it **** seems **** to go away. But it doesn't go away.
    People who have been released from hospitals, showing NO TRACE of active virus, suddenly drop dead on the streets from heart failure. That's the SECOND phase of the virus. It attacks the vital organs, kidneys mostly. The person feels achy again, feels tired again, figures it will pass and keeps on about their daily life. But what's actually taking place inside them is the disease is sending them into Sepsis, and they drop dead from Septic Shock and organ failure.

    SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST
    We are in for a terrible, life altering, situation. Many, many, people are going to get terribly sick and DIE. Almost none of us has ever lived through a real pandemic like this before. It's going to be heart-breaking to see the level of suffering and death.
    We will see, firsthand, with our own eyes, nature's primary law: Survival of the fittest.
    Not just the physically fittest, but the mentally fittest as well. A lot of people in America are going to die because mentally, they cannot or will not see the facts as they are. They will REFUSE to plan with emergency food and water. They will refuse to wear filter masks. They will refuse to comply with Quarantines. The mentally unfit will likely die-off at larger levels than the physically unfit. Their tombstones should read "Died because he was stupid."
    Government is not telling you this because they don't want you to panic. Noble goal, but misplaced.
    We're adults. We not only have a right to know the facts, we MUST know in order to make informed decisions about our own safety.
    This web site, and the Hal Turner Radio Show, have been publicizing the facts because we trust in the American people to be mature, responsible, and rational. We will continue to do so.

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    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Trump's great quote to calm Americans was to tell them they probably won't die. And to squelch information coming from the CDC.

    So how does this work? When he can't deny it anymore, which group of people will he scapegoat? Who will the haters go after? The mental state of Americans isn't just about denial. Our leader is fanning dangerous flames.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Trump's great quote to calm Americans was to tell them they probably won't die. And to squelch information coming from the CDC.
    Trump is trying to appease the shareholders. The panic is bad for big businesses and for the stock markets.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    So how does this work? When he can't deny it anymore, which group of people will he scapegoat? Who will the haters go after? The mental state of Americans isn't just about denial. Our leader is fanning dangerous flames.
    The danger comes from both sides of the equation. Trump is in denial about it because he's a narcissist who serves the oligarchs, and the panic is bad for the oligarchs. On the other hand, the panic has been blown out of proportions by the talking heads on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

    I've just read an article from our state-sponsored news media that addressed all the scaremongering. Photos are showing up of mass graves, et al, but it turns out those photos are stills from the 2011 movie Contagion. Photos of people storming the supermarkets in China to look for food are also being spread, but those photos were actually from a Black-Friday-like event in China from a few years ago.

    As the matter of fact, both the number of new infections and the number of deaths in Wuhan are dropping. There are of course still worrisome infections in several other countries, and a risk that they would spread. But it is simmering down, even though the economists and the Wall Street brokers are still in full-on knee-jerk paranoia mode ─ believe it or not, even with the stock markets going negative, there are still people making a profit off of all of it. And that is the game that's being played.

    And no, regardless of what's being said in the alternative media, it is not a bio-weapon, and it's most definitely not related to 5G. It would certainly behoove a lot of people to spend a little more time (and attention) in school.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Trump's great quote to calm Americans was to tell them they probably won't die. And to squelch information coming from the CDC.

    So how does this work? When he can't deny it anymore, which group of people will he scapegoat? Who will the haters go after? The mental state of Americans isn't just about denial. Our leader is fanning dangerous flames.
    His Job is to reassure people and admittedly, he's not very good at it.

    In fact Late Night Hosts made light of the fact, that when mr T tells you not to panic, you really should start panicking.

    Fact is, most people aren't going to die, but a great many will, especially the elderly and those with underlying health conditions. Whether you believe it is a naturally occurring pathogen or man-made, this acts very much like a forest fire, it thins out brush overgrowth and thins the herd.

    This is nature's way of doing some spring cleaning and there is really very little anyone can do about it, so we should just keep calm and refrain from panicking. There is no vaccine or any sort of proven cure, so we must rely on our own immune system to fight it.

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