Coronavirus with an R0 of 3 or beyond

[Octopus Garden]

Yeah, the future...it ain't what it used to be.

I have a question about the virus. Hypothetically speaking, if it was bio-engineered, is it in fact bio-engineered to mutate into ever more fatal forms? From what I have been reading, most of the current mutations are far more infectious, but less fatal, not more.

There may come a time when we are completely out of any way to remedy the unfolding situation. In that case,people will have to go back to work and kids have to get back to school, or there could be starvation.

If its simply a case of people over 80 years of age or diabetic taking precautionary measures, including putting themselves in lockdown or working from home it seems a reasonable request and doable.

It's not realistic to expect, (if the vaccines aren't effective) for everyone to remain in lockdown every winter, year after year.

We may have to live the kinds of lives people lived in the past, where living to the point of need for extended care, will be considered a real atrocity, a misallocation of resources, in an economically strained environment.

Things will change, some changes will be for the better.

[Catsquotl]

Viruses mute by definition, as does every living thing that reproduces...
From an evolutionary p.o.v. it would be in the best interest of a virus to be more infectious and less deadly.
That would be conducive to it's reproduction. Not killing the hosts and have maximum opportunity to grow.

As for the anti pandemic measures... There's lessons to be learned for sure.
Although I cannot shake the feeling that intentionally or not we've given those who wish to control a valuable new fear based weapon by the way most complied to the measures.
I am very reluctant to agree that some changes are for the better.


With Love
Eelco

[Dear Reader]

I think it's going to take a lot longer before we can go back to "normal". There are still too many people who don't take this virus seriously ─ there are still lockdown parties every day, and violent protests in the Netherlands ─ and too many people who are not actually following the guidelines even though they think they do.

And then I'm not even getting into the incompetence within the governments. New Zealand scored the best on the list of countries dealing with the virus, and Belgium only sits at the 72nd place ─ which somehow doesn't surprise me. I don't know where the USA sits on that list, but it won't be very high, due to the reactionary groups and the horrible way the Trump administration handled the pandemic.

You think that we will "go back" to "normal"?

I don't think that we will go back to anything that resembled what "normal" was, I said this to family and friends almost a year ago. "They" do not want people congregating in large numbers again, so bang goes all the big, outdoor festivals, as well as large-scale protests (the REAL target). I think that in the not too distant future, we'll look back, all misty eyed, at memories of that great music gig/festival you attended.

For the first time in my life, and this is straight up, I'm actually a little fearful of what this future looks like. I knew it was coming, there's been enough out there for years and years about how certain groups would like to enslave humanity, but now that we are on the precipice, now that we can actually see it....... I dunno, it gives me a knot in my stomach. The technology is there and ready, I think that that was the last hurdle for them and now that hardware has been scaled-down and the networks can handle the volume, now that the processing power and speed are usable, real-time networks are a reality.

I do not see a lot that is standing in their way, save for some type of Black Swan event, I think we could be f*cked.






















............... "and now Chris with the weather"

[Octopus Garden]

Cats and Dear Reader,

I think it's premature to assume the measures that are taking place now are part of a vast conspiracy. But...if they are in place next winter, as the virus weakens, I'll be much more inclined to agree.

Its going to be mighty tough for any politician to do what they might have to do...level with us, by saying exactly that.

Cats, I understand the evolution of natural mutations, but wondered if it would be possible for a virus to be created that actually becomes more infectious and more lethal over time. I don't know how this could possibly be done, but I don't have credentials.

[Catsquotl]

Cats and Dear Reader,

I think it's premature to assume the measures that are taking place now are part of a vast conspiracy. But...if they are in place next winter, as the virus weakens, I'll be much more inclined to agree.

Its going to be mighty tough for any politician to do what they might have to do...level with us, by saying exactly that.

Cats, I understand the evolution of natural mutations, but wondered if it would be possible for a virus to be created that actually becomes more infectious and more lethal over time. I don't know how this could possibly be done, but I don't have credentials.

I agree that we cannot say this pandemic and the imposed measures are part of a conspiracy. That isn't my concern either, because whether or not it was. We are were we are now.
I do believe that by example of peoples behaviors during the pandemic we the people have given new strategies which could be utilized in the future..

Fear of war isn't nearly as effective as fear of disease and social pressure.
As an example.. Personally I work at a low clientele house with a handful of vulnerable people. Last week they tested positive for corona, since then I have done daily speed tests, 2 pcr tests.
Something I would have been very reluctant to do before, but now since half the team is at home after testing positive I feel I have to keep going.

I am still saying I will not get the vaccination, but will I let loose my job over it?
I am not sure anymore.

With Love
Eelco

[Chris]

Cats and Dear Reader,

I think it's premature to assume the measures that are taking place now are part of a vast conspiracy. But...if they are in place next winter, as the virus weakens, I'll be much more inclined to agree.

Its going to be mighty tough for any politician to do what they might have to do...level with us, by saying exactly that.

Cats, I understand the evolution of natural mutations, but wondered if it would be possible for a virus to be created that actually becomes more infectious and more lethal over time. I don't know how this could possibly be done, but I don't have credentials.

The scientists in the video I posted earlier actually make the point that this virus seems to be getting more lethal over time, not less, which is the opposite of what you would expect from a naturally occurring virus. They cited that as one of the characteristics that would indicate gain-of-function manipulation.

[Catsquotl]

I heard, not checked that the final wave of the spanish flu pandemic was the deadliest as well.

edit:
it seems the second wave was the deadliest actual death toll.

[Octopus Garden]

The scientists in the video I posted earlier actually make the point that this virus seems to be getting more lethal over time, not less, which is the opposite of what you would expect from a naturally occurring virus. They cited that as one of the characteristics that would indicate gain-of-function manipulation.

I watched it and must have missed that about increasing lethality. I will watch it again. REally like Brett Weinstein. He is super intelligent, gentle soul. So thanks tremendously for that video.

[Chris]

I heard, not checked that the final wave of the spanish flu pandemic was the deadliest as well.

edit:
it seems the second wave was the deadliest actual death toll.

That is generally the case with pandemics, usually the second wave is the worst.

However, this is only tentative, but the SARS-II pandemic seems different. We are pretty much in the third wave now in many countries (such as the UK) and death rates, with new mutated variants appear to have gone up, not down, which is very unusual behaviour for a mutated strain of the virus. There might be another explanation for it, such as modern healthcare giving more deadly mutated strains a better chance of survival as opposed to the milder ones, but the scientists cited above thought it important enough to mention this anomaly in their interview.

On the available evidence, I expect that further mutated strains will emerge, each deadlier and more virulent, as well as more resistant to already developed vaccines as the previous ones. People will get covid multiple times, over and over again, with each infection increasing their chances of death, which is again an unnatural development, the opposite of what you would normally expect of a virus.

[Octopus Garden]

Jesus in a side car, Chris. That is one horrible prospect. I have been comforted by the thought it would become less lethal, but I guess I am wrong. What kind of monster or complete imbecile would create a pathogen like this as part of a gain of function program? That's assuming it was created in a lab.

[Octopus Garden]

So I am just thinking about the evolution of natural viruses from more to less lethal over time. That's due to the less lethal forms of the virus, out replicating the more lethal forms that kill the host. So once a lab created virus is out in the natural environment, there must be some process that overrides that natural phenomenon.

The only process I can think of is a mutation that has a very long incubation period with asymptomatic spread. That would make it more robust then the original virus, but in the long run, more lethal. It only makes sense that it would be more lethal if the tendency to out reproduce other forms of covid, were coupled with an overall strength that made it more fatal.

[Chris]

Jesus in a side car, Chris. That is one horrible prospect. I have been comforted by the thought it would become less lethal, but I guess I am wrong. What kind of monster or complete imbecile would create a pathogen like this as part of a gain of function program? That's assuming it was created in a lab.

I don't think that they would ever admit that it was a bioweapons research project that escaped, don't expect to ever hear that from official sources or the mainstream media. Even if everyone knew that to be the case privately, official admission would lead to ruinous litigation cases and prosecutions. The Nascent Chinese bioweapons programme, based in Wuhan, was largely a branch of Western outfits with a lot more experience. This will forever be labelled a conspiracy theory and any mention of it suppressed.

A clear indication is how political pressure forced the Indian Institute of Technology to "recant" its study that first spotted it, just over a year ago. The entire global bioweapons research community has closed ranks and refused to even discuss it ever since, despite the obvious evidence, so I guess this will forever remain in the private domain, along with speculation about UFOs, 9/11, and bigfoot.

[Emil El Zapato]

I think assuming it is becoming more lethal is a little premature ... it is speculated that the new forms might be more communicable but not of necessity more lethal. That remains to be proven.

This is a bit outdated. One might notice a reference to the 'Myth of Extinctions' in the presentation. Statements like that always set my antennae to twitching and in fact more recent research suggests that it is not a myth but perhaps overstated (overstatement is another factor that is considered in the question and answer session)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_eSfM7AjB4


It 'touches' on the spread of pathogens.

[Dreamtimer]

I haven't heard much about it becoming more deadly, just more contagious. However, I'm not disputing anyone here. It may well be more deadly.

Mutations happen very fast in the viral world. My understanding is that man-made changes don't last long in organisms. They degrade or disappear over time.

But I'm no expert.

[Emil El Zapato]

This is too late for you Chris, but this is a good presentation on how to boost the immune system and protect it. It is a simple formula

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha2mLz-Xdpg