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Thread: Coronavirus with an R0 of 3 or beyond

  1. #361
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    Mmmm find it difficult to believe you without links, you appear to have been told that they in big poo, by who ?.
    consider the apparent, Aianawa...When was the last time you saw Putin strutting around? When was the last time a Russian made a noticeable appearance anywhere?
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  3. #362
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    consider the apparent, Aianawa...When was the last time you saw Putin strutting around? When was the last time a Russian made a noticeable appearance anywhere?
    In fact he did visit a Moscow hospital with Covid-19 patients a few days ago, in what I can only describe as a space suit. Should tell you everything about what they REALLY think about the disease, its infectiousness and danger to human health.

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  5. #363
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    My company which has billions of dollars in the game has just extended their 'No one allowed on site!' dictate for another 30 days.
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  7. #364
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Russia is in deep shit right now, because they were in denial about the pandemic until now. Remember, that Russia shares a long border with China and they've had one of the first cases outside China. They closed the border, but are only now introducing lockdown measures, whilst the virus has been spreading silently since January. In usual Russian style, they tried to sweep their growing number of cases under the carpet, but they no longer can. Believe me, Russia is probably further ahead in this pandemic than many realise.
    How coronavirus helps Putin

    Tell me Chris, do you know the history between Finland and the Soviet Union? I fear that once Putin's dictatorship falls, something terrible might happen and we are neighbors with them. However, I have nothing against the Russian people. It's just that their government is absolutely horrible and murderous.

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  9. #365
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    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    How coronavirus helps Putin

    Tell me Chris, do you know the history between Finland and the Soviet Union? I fear that once Putin's dictatorship falls, something terrible might happen and we are neighbors with them. However, I have nothing against the Russian people. It's just that their government is absolutely horrible and murderous.
    Yes, indeed, I agree.

    I know about the winter war of course, I don't know whether you were aware, but thousands of Hungarian volunteers fought on the Finnish side in the war. It is of course a great pity that the war was lost in the end, nevertheless, it was a heroic effort.

    I've had many Finnish flatmates (5 altogether), so I'm well aware of all the jokes about how one Finnish soldier is worth 20 Russians and when Finns start feeling a bit chilly (when everybody else has already frozen to death...).

    Ok, so it is a bit of patriotic chauvinism, but I think it is healthy.

    I also have nothing against the Russian people, they're some of my favourite people, very warm and friendly. But, as you said, the Russian government is a different matter. I don't think Finland has much to worry about regarding Russian territorial expansion, but the Baltic States are understandably nervous and Poland has been arming itself against an upcoming Russian invasion for years. Sadly, my own country is pretty much in the pockets of Putin and Orban has been more or less Putin's (and Netanyahu's) lapdog in recent years.

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  11. #366
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    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Yes, indeed, I agree.

    I know about the winter war of course, I don't know whether you were aware, but thousands of Hungarian volunteers fought on the Finnish side in the war. It is of course a great pity that the war was lost in the end, nevertheless, it was a heroic effort.
    No, I didn't know that, interesting.

    Actually in that war Finland had a defensive victory over the soviet Union so we got to keep our independence unlike any other country in the region. If Russia would have won then after taking Finland they could have proceeded to take Sweden and Norway too. However, there was the Continuation War too.

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  13. #367
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    I'm not one to say I told you so, but I told you so... I will say it is gratifying being on the same wavelength...I knew it was there all along just not it in a position to be acknowledged.

    I saw this trend starting in probably 2007. By the time I hit PA in 2011-2012 the battle was already lost.

    I actually scared a guy out of a conversation (A Hispanic about my age) with my vehemence in insisting the right were fascists in 2007.

    I don't want to create the wrong impression here...The scared guy was a military veteran and a hell of a lot more macho than me...
    Last edited by NotAPretender, 30th March 2020 at 20:32.
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    Dr. Bruce Lipton on COVID-19, Coronavirus Pandemic & Evolution


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  17. #369
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    What needs to be looked at a bit more is the fact that it is new and whether or not the viral penetration is really 50% or 5% or herd immunity %...
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  19. #370
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    Time to start talking about the economic and social impact of the Cov.

    - The St. Louis Fed is forecasting 32 percent unemployment and 47 million unemployed overall during the Greater Depression that has just started. During the first week of the Greater Depression, 3,3 million Americans filed for unemployment. Similar numbers are being seen all over the world. Universal Basic Income may be the only way to keep societies functioning:
    https://www.ccn.com/fed-predicts-doo...-yang-save-us/


    - The homeless in Las Vegas are being housed in open-air parking lots, whilst 150.000 hotel rooms stand empty:
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...meless-shelter

    - Japanese scientists confirm a third transmission route for the Cov, microparticles, that can stay in the air for extended periods. Even N95 masks provide no protection, which explains the high R0 value. Yes, it is airborne, as we have always suspected, but now it has been scientifically confirmed.
    https://www.ccn.com/japan-scientists...through-study/

    - Former PM of Japan confirms that the government lied about COV infection numbers to save the olympics:
    https://www.ccn.com/japan-lied-about...ormer-pm-says/

    - Anti-malarial drug, in combination with Zinc is the most promising treatment so far. As a result, Hungary, which is one of the world's largest exporter of the main component in this drug (Chloroquine) has banned all exports until further notice and will try to produce the drug for the local population first as a priority. Other countries, such as India, are likely to follow suit. We are likely to see many more examples of this type of "medical nationalism".

    https://www.ccn.com/trumps-anti-mala...inst-covid-19/

    - Food supplies are at risk both for this year and the next. The uptick in local demand has resulted in many countries putting export bans on major staples, such as rice and wheat. Countries that are reliant on food imports, especially those that are reliant on oil export revenues at the same time, will likely suffer signficantly, especially as we are seeing major natural disasters, such as wildfires, locust plagues and droughts at the same time. The US and Europe will probably be fine in terms of overall supply, since they are major exporters, but prices are likely to shoot up considerably. On the other hand, the prices of everything else, including property and electronics, may drop due to their non-essential nature and lack of demand.

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  21. #371
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    not to go backwards but I spoke Skyped with a co-worker that says a Sheriff of Detroit Michigan, a friend of his has died from the virus (For all the conspiracy theorists)

    Incidentally, his 1st cousin is the famous Magic Johnson the b'baller.
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  23. #372
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    Viruses seem to be the ultimate opportunists/adaptors. Our saving grace will ultimately be the fact that a super killer virus has to evolve or it will run out of hosts. And so it will change to become less virulent so that it can remain and only make its hosts sick, not dead.

    For those who used to wonder why we can't come up with a cure for the common cold, it's because it's a coronavirus. It's actually a set of viruses which have already evolved in the above described manner.

    We'd be constantly behind the vaccine development curve because we can't begin to catch up with the speed of mutation of these little buggers.

    Microbes are useful for studying evolution because they do it over a time period we are able to observe in our own lifetimes.

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  25. #373
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    Interesting article from Paul Krugman about why the US is the centre for science denialism and in this instance, pandemic denialism.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/o...gtype=Homepage

    This Land of Denial and Death

    Covid-19 and the dark side of American exceptionalism.

    Death comes at you fast. Just three weeks ago the official line at the White House and Fox News was that the coronavirus was no big deal, that claims to the contrary were a politically motivated hoax perpetrated by people out to get Donald Trump. Now we have a full-blown health crisis in New York, and all indications are that many other cities will soon find themselves in the same situation.

    And it will almost certainly get much worse. The United States is on the worst trajectory of any advanced country — yes, worse than Italy at the same stage of the pandemic — with confirmed cases doubling every three days.

    I’m not sure that people understand, even now, what that kind of exponential growth implies. But if cases kept growing at their current rate for a month, they would increase by a factor of a thousand, and almost half of Americans would be infected.

    We hope that won’t happen. Many although not all states have gone into lockdown, and both epidemiological models and some early evidence suggest that this will “flatten the curve,” that is, substantially slow the virus’s spread. But as we wait to see just how bad our national nightmare will get, it’s worth stepping back for a few minutes to ask why America has handled this crisis so badly.

    Incredibly bad leadership at the top is clearly an important factor. Thousands of Americans are dying, and the president is boasting about his TV ratings.

    But this isn’t just about one man. Neither the scientific denial that crippled the initial response to this pandemic, nor the tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths that now seem likely, are unique to Covid-19. Among advanced countries, the United States has long stood out as the land of denial and death. It’s just that we’re now seeing these national character flaws play out at a vastly accelerated rate.

    About denial: Epidemiologists trying to get a handle on the coronavirus threat appear to have been caught off guard by the immediate politicization of their work, the claims that they were perpetrating a hoax designed to hurt Trump, or promote socialism, or something. But they should have expected that reaction, since climate scientists have faced the same accusations for years.

    And while climate-change denial is a worldwide phenomenon, its epicenter is clearly here in America: Republicans are the world’s only major climate-denialist party.


    What lies behind Republican science denial? The answer seems to be a combination of fealty to special interests and fealty to evangelical Christian leaders like Jerry Falwell Jr., who dismissed the coronavirus as a plot against Trump, then reopened his university despite health officials’ warnings, and seems to have created his own personal viral hot spot.

    The point, in any case, is that decades of science denial on multiple fronts set the stage for the virus denial that paralyzed U.S. policy during the crucial early weeks of the current pandemic.

    About death: I still sometimes encounter people convinced that America has the world’s highest life expectancy. After all, aren’t we the world’s greatest nation? In fact, we have the lowest life expectancy among advanced countries, and the gap has been steadily widening for decades.

    This widening gap, in turn, surely reflects both America’s unique lack of universal health insurance and its equally unique surge in “deaths of despair” — deaths from drugs, alcohol and suicide — among working-class whites who have seen economic opportunities disappear.

    Is there a link between the hundreds of thousands of excess deaths we suffer every year compared with other rich countries and the tens of thousands of additional excess deaths we’re about to suffer from the coronavirus? The answer is surely yes.

    In particular, when we conduct a post-mortem on this pandemic — a stock phrase that, in this case, isn’t a metaphor — we’ll probably find that the same hostility to government that routinely undermines efforts to help Americans in need played a crucial role in slowing an effective response to the current crisis.

    What about the larger picture? Is there a link between the uniquely American prevalence of science denial and America’s uniquely high mortality? To be honest, I’m still trying to figure this out.

    One possible story is that the U.S. political landscape gives special power to the anti-science religious right, which has lent its support to anti-government politicians. But I’m not sure whether this is the whole story, and the power of people like Falwell is itself a phenomenon that demands explanation.

    In any case, the point is that while America is a great nation with a glorious history and much to be proud of — I consider myself very much a patriot — the rise of the hard right has, as I said, also turned it into a land of denial and death. This transformation has been taking place gradually over the past few decades; it’s just that now we’re watching the consequences on fast forward.

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  27. #374
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Chris View Post
    I would have a request towards some of my fellow totters here.

    This is a thread for the serious discussion of the Sars-Cov-2 coronavirus and the implications for the spread of it, as well as the ongoing Covid-19 pandemic. If you think this pandemic is a hoax, or that the virus does not exist or that it is caused by 5G, may I suggest that you start your own separate thread about it. You obviously have the right to your own opinion, but those of us who think this is a real pandemic caused by an actual virus also have the right to ignore your opinion, hence it should go into its own thread.

    In fact, the mods may want to move such posts and links into its own thread, but it's just a suggestion.
    At this point, there is already too much denialism and off-topic stuff interwoven with this thread to be able to move it over to another thread without breaking continuity, but I agree with you that the denialists and knee-jerk conspiracy theorists should from here on reserve their stuff for another thread and leave this one alone.

    Anything off-topic, denialist or non-/pseudo-scientific will henceforth be parked on another thread ─ which will sit under the Proven Hoaxes & Misinformation category ─ and the offenders will be banned from this thread.
    I have now deleted two posts from this thread ─ one by ZShawn and one by Aianawa. The both of them have now also been banned from this thread.

    I have been far too lenient for far too long. If the naughty children won't listen to a clear warning, then those naughty children will have to learn their lesson the hard way.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  29. #375
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    And then suddenly, Mike Adams is the voice of reason again. You know we're in trouble when he's the sane one, trying to save the completely unhinged alternative community from itself. This podcast is a must listen if you want to understand the alt media's thought process regarding their pandemic denialism. BTW, I think this is entirely a US phenomenon which tells you something about the public education system in the US. You must really not know, or at least be able to ignore basic maths and biology to think that this pandemic is somehow a hoax.

    https://www.brighteon.com/a7c0f5b2-5...a-22078e0ffab0

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