Page 12 of 96 FirstFirst ... 291011121314152262 ... LastLast
Results 166 to 180 of 1427

Thread: Coronavirus with an R0 of 3 or beyond

  1. #166
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Location
    Earth I
    Posts
    12,191
    Thanks
    36,640
    Thanked 43,100 Times in 11,915 Posts
    well, I hope these aren't not-so-famous last words, but I got up this morning thinking that things are actually going to smooth out soon, at least the panic...
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Emil El Zapato For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (11th March 2020), Aragorn (11th March 2020), Chris (11th March 2020), Dreamtimer (11th March 2020), Wind (11th March 2020)

  3. #167
    Retired Member Hungary
    Join Date
    10th July 2018
    Posts
    1,862
    Thanks
    4,696
    Thanked 8,908 Times in 1,858 Posts
    There is no panic yet, but there is stockpiling, which is only prudent, given that over 60s have been advised to stock up on a month's worth of supplies. I don't see why that wouldn't apply to everyone else as well.

    If anything, people are still downplaying this and in denial.

    All schools in nearby Czechia have been closed until further notice. Other countries are likely to follow suit starting next monday. Almost all of the cases here in Hungary have been foreign students (from Iran) and those that were in contact with them at Uni.

    It is likely that all mass events and gatherings will be cancelled until at least June. Even weddings are now banned in Italy. Both my siblings were supposed to get married this year, but I guess the weddings are now off. We shall see...
    Last edited by Dreamtimer, 11th March 2020 at 14:06. Reason: deleted repeating text

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (11th March 2020), Aragorn (11th March 2020), Dreamtimer (11th March 2020), Wind (11th March 2020)

  5. #168
    Retired Member Hungary
    Join Date
    10th July 2018
    Posts
    1,862
    Thanks
    4,696
    Thanked 8,908 Times in 1,858 Posts
    New information is coming in all the time.

    Angela Merkel gave a speech to German lawmakers. The government expects 70 percent of Germans to get infected over the next 2 years, or close to 60 million people. Whether you take the lowest possible mortality rate (1 percent) or the highest (8 percent, in Lombardy), We're talking at least half a million deaths, or, possibly, up to 5 million, depending on a number of factors.

    A statewide lockdown in Washington is imminent. There is community spread all over the USA and still only a few thousand people have been tested, as opposed to 100,000 in South Korea. Conservatively, there must already be tens of thousands of cases in the US.

    Taking the conservative German number, worldwide infections will probably come in at around 5-6 Billion over the next 2 years, with the number of dead ranging anywhere from 50 million to half a billion. Given that a billion people will be in need of ICU beds and there's a fraction of a fraction of that available worldwide, I think we can safely say that death rates will be in double digits, possibly as high as the 17 percent that some researchers have projected. In a worst-case scenario, we are still on course for a billion dead. The best case scenario now is a repeat of the Spanish flu epidemic with a few tens of millions dead. Only, this isn't the flu, so that seems unlikely.

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (11th March 2020), Aragorn (11th March 2020), Dreamtimer (11th March 2020), Wind (11th March 2020)

  7. #169
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Location
    Earth I
    Posts
    12,191
    Thanks
    36,640
    Thanked 43,100 Times in 11,915 Posts
    By my calculations 15 out of 16 that contract the disease will survive it for every death 15 have recovered
    Last edited by Emil El Zapato, 11th March 2020 at 17:32.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Emil El Zapato For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (11th March 2020), Aragorn (11th March 2020), Dreamtimer (11th March 2020), Wind (11th March 2020)

  9. #170
    Retired Member United States
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    14,610
    Thanks
    70,673
    Thanked 62,025 Times in 14,520 Posts
    See here for an in depth discussion.

  10. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aianawa (11th March 2020), Aragorn (11th March 2020), Chris (11th March 2020), Emil El Zapato (12th March 2020), Wind (11th March 2020)

  11. #171
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Location
    Earth I
    Posts
    12,191
    Thanks
    36,640
    Thanked 43,100 Times in 11,915 Posts
    It occurred to me on the way home from work today 1 in 16 is 6.2 %, so much for that flash of insight:

    Worldwide there have been approximately 4,000 deaths and 64,000 recoveries. I think the impact will be greater in some parts of the world as opposed to others. For example, China and Italy have been hard hit, but Africa has been by comparison lightly impacted...time will tell...
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Emil El Zapato For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (12th March 2020), Dreamtimer (12th March 2020), Wind (12th March 2020)

  13. #172
    Senior Member Emil El Zapato's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd April 2017
    Location
    Earth I
    Posts
    12,191
    Thanks
    36,640
    Thanked 43,100 Times in 11,915 Posts
    Why we should stop comparing the Covid-19 coronavirus outbreak to the 1918 Spanish flu
    The Spanish flu killed tens of millions of people. Here’s what it can and can’t tell us about Covid-19.

    In a climate of international conflict and turmoil, a disease begins to spread across the globe. It hits the United States on the way to becoming a worldwide pandemic. While most infected survive, the fatality rate is well above that of an ordinary flu. Eventually, one in three humans on earth is infected. At least 17 million people, and maybe as many as 100 million, perish.

    This is not a prediction — it’s a description of how the influenza pandemic of 1918-’19 (which came to be erroneously known as the “Spanish flu”; more on that below) became one of the deadliest, if not the deadliest, disease outbreak in modern history.

    Comparisons to the 1918 outbreak have been rife since the novel coronavirus outbreak began in January. We recently marked the centennial of the 1918 pandemic, and fear of a repeat pervades discussions of the current outbreak.

    But even granting that we are early in the history of the coronavirus outbreak, there are important differences between our current predicament and the Spanish flu. The underlying diseases are different, and from what we know at this point, the case fatality rate of the coronavirus is lower, by some estimates, than that of the Spanish flu. We also enjoy a much more robust public health infrastructure in 2019; in 1918, as Laura Spinney documents in her pandemic history Pale Rider, medical experts still hadn’t agreed that the flu is caused by a virus.

    Other differences, like the advent of widespread passenger air travel and much deeper global supply chains, put us at greater pandemic risk now than in 1918.

    But many experts caution that we should avoid comparisons to the Spanish flu. As flu expert Jeremy Brown writes in the Atlantic, “What’s most striking about these comparisons … is not the similarities between the two episodes, but the distance that medicine has traveled in the intervening century.”

    Spinney concurs. “The Spanish flu is one of the worst, if not the worst, pandemic humanity ever went through, and it’s really anomalous in the history of flu pandemics,” she explains. “We’ve had 15 flu pandemics in the last 500 years, and the last five since the 1890s have been properly measured in a scientific way. None [but the Spanish flu] has killed more than 3 million people maximum.”

    The “Asian flu” of 1957 and the “Hong Kong flu” of 1968, for instance, were both met with more modern tools of disease surveillance and had death tolls in the range of 500,000 to 2 million: big numbers, for sure, but hardly 1918 levels.

    A very, very brief history of the 1918 flu
    As Spinney notes in Pale Rider, it can be difficult to pin down the exact origins of the 1918 influenza outbreak.

    One theory has it starting on American soil, in Kansas, where it migrated from birds to humans. Albert Gitchell, an Army private and mess cook based in Fort Riley, Kansas, is sometimes identified as the first victim, reporting his symptoms on March 4, 1918. Unfortunately for the world, US soldiers at Fort Riley were at that point preparing for deployment to the Western Front of World War I.

    A month later, Spinney writes, “the flu was epidemic in the American Midwest, on the cities of the eastern seaboard from which the soldiers embarked, and in the French ports where they disembarked.”

    There are other theories, however. Spinney told me in a phone call that one theory tries to explain the unusual virulence of the 1918 flu by positing that it developed first in Europe’s trenches. Normally viruses decline in their deadliness over time because they need living hosts to keep spreading. That didn’t happen with the 1918 flu — perhaps, Spinney says, “because the virus might have got started in the trenches filled with young men who weren’t very mobile. They were stuck in the trenches like sardines for days, weeks, months. There was no evolutionary pressure for it to moderate its virulence.”


    One theory posits that the 1918 flu that became a pandemic started in the trenches in Europe during World War I. Bettmann Archives/Getty Images
    Whether it began in the trenches or ended up there after the arrival of American troops, the virus spread quickly to German soldiers and to neutral Spain. News of the flu was censored in most countries with war censorship regimes, leading authorities in Spain to erroneously think that it was alone in enduring such a brutal outbreak — hence the name “Spanish flu.” Russian POWs returning from Germany spread the disease to the newly created Soviet Union, and by May and June, various countries in Africa, as well as India, China, and Japan, all had outbreaks.

    This is sometimes called the “first wave” of the flu, because while it had significant effects (particularly on World War I, where it weakened troops on both sides), it was not the debilitating crisis that we now remember as the Spanish flu.

    The second wave, Spinney writes, began in August 1918 almost simultaneously in ports in Freetown, Sierra Leone; Brest, France; and Boston, Massachusetts. British imperial ships spread it around the country’s African holdings, and from South Africa it spread to the rest of the continent. In a matter of months, the flu was slowing down combat in Europe, spreading back to India, China, and Japan, and circulating through mass public celebrations of the war’s armistice on November 11.


    Basically the only place not affected was Australia, but a “third wave” of the flu in late 1918 eventually hit there, too.

    The second wave of the flu, in particular, had more brutal effects than typical influenza, not least because it was likelier than the ordinary flu to be joined by bacterial pneumonia. This, subsequent research has suggested, caused most of the deaths in the 1918 flu outbreak.

    When all was said and done, the flu had killed between 17 million and 100 million. That’s a wide range. While today countries keep detailed records of testing and diagnosis for new outbreaks (as they’ve been doing during the coronavirus crisis), there was no such record-keeping capacity in the late 1910s. As such, research has to rely on estimates comparing actual mortality to a “baseline” level of mortality that would have occurred without the flu. Accurate actual death rates are hard enough to cobble together, given the unreliability of death records from the period, but estimating counterfactual deaths without the flu is harder still.

    It’s hard to say when, exactly, the pandemic outbreak receded. The third wave, beginning in the winter of 1918-’19, subsided by that summer, and the virus likely lurked around for years, not causing pandemics because most survivors had been exposed and developed antibodies. The long-term health and economic costs were substantial. Economist Douglas Almond has estimated that people exposed in utero to the flu in 1918-’19 received less education, earned lower incomes, and were likelier to have disabilities than people who missed the pandemic in the womb.

    Similarities and differences between the 1918 outbreak and now
    The Spanish flu is frightening because it demonstrates that in a reasonably modern society, a pandemic killing tens of millions of people is very plausible. But that “reasonably modern” society was still much more primitive when it came to medicine and public health than the world of today.

    Here are a few facts about public health in the year 1918:

    We did not know that influenza is caused by a virus, and in fact the scientist Richard Pfeiffer had convinced most of the medical community that it was caused by bacteria; it wasn’t until 1933 that researchers proved conclusively that the flu is a viral infection.
    Antibiotics capable of treating flu-related pneumonia infections (which are typically caused by bacteria) were 10 years from being discovered.
    Antiviral drugs were many decades from being developed; the first came out in 1963.
    There was no World Health Organization, and efforts to surveil and track the outbreak of new diseases were incredibly rudimentary.
    Most countries in Europe were under war censorship regimes that limited the spread of accurate, lifesaving information about the flu outbreak.
    For all the advances we’ve made since, what’s striking is how some of the measures authorities instituted at the time look very much like the ones we’re seeing with the coronavirus outbreak. Spinney told me, “They had the kind of social distancing measures that we’re still using today: isolation, quarantine, masks, hand-washing, staggering rush hour so you don’t have massive crowds in the metro and the streets. Those are techniques that are very ancient. People have always understood you have to keep the healthy and the sick separate.”

    We must also weigh the massive strides in public health made since 1918 against the advent of global supply chains and passenger air travel. “We have a global population that is four times the size, and at least in the industrialized world, the populations are much older with respect to 1918, and old age weakens immune systems,” Spinney continues. All of that makes us more vulnerable, not less, to a pandemic like this. While antivirals are useful against coronavirus, we do not have a vaccine and will not for at least 18 months, somewhat limiting the public health value of our scientific advances over the last 100 years.

    One way we can compare the two outbreaks is by looking at case fatality rates: the share of infections that lead to death. This is always difficult to estimate because there are likely more infections than have been identified by medical authorities. According to Johns Hopkins researchers, as of this writing there have been 111,363 cases of Covid-19 and 3,892 deaths, for a case fatality rate of about 3.5 percent.


    But you should take that number with a grain of salt. Countries’ testing protocols vary widely and many, including the US, have only tested a few thousand people while others, like South Korea, have tested hundreds of thousands. That means the denominator for the case fatality rate — the total number of infections — is uncertain, and might be undercounted due to lack of testing. In South Korea, the case fatality rate is currently 0.7 percent, suggesting that better testing might yield more accurate, lower rates. At the same time, as Julia Belluz explains, accurately measured fatality rates are also going to vary significantly from country to country due to differences in health system capacity, low- and middle-income people’s access to health care, etc.

    The case fatality rate of the Spanish flu is often cited as 2.5 percent, but this is likely a dramatic underestimate, as science writer Ferris Jabr has written.

    The most frequently cited death statistics for the Spanish flu come from Niall Johnson and Juergen Mueller’s 2002 study, which estimated the death toll at 50 million and warned that this might be as much as a 100 percent underestimate, implying a total toll of 100 million. A more recent 2018 paper by Pete Spreeuwenberg, Madelon Kroneman, and John Paget gets a much lower estimate of 17.4 million. If the frequently cited estimate of 500 million infections globally is correct, then the latter death toll implies a case fatality rate of 3.5 percent, but using a higher death toll of 50 million, the fatality rate rises to 10 percent.

    This is a huge range of uncertainty. Given how imprecise our counts of total global infections for both the Spanish flu and coronavirus are and how imprecise our estimates for the former’s death toll are, it is hard to say anything definitive about how they stack up against each other in terms of case fatality.

    The diseases also differed in whom they infected. The Spanish flu, unusually for an influenza, was less lethal for older people, perhaps because a similar 1830s flu outbreak granted older people still alive in 1918 some limited immunity. The coronavirus, by contrast, has had its most devastating impact in China on older people.

    Both Covid-19 and the Spanish flu have already had massive effects outside of their immediate health consequences. The Spanish flu, many World War I historians agree, sped up the end of the war by weakening the ability of each side to field armies; it may even have affected the outcome, though the evidence there is weaker.

    Covid-19’s economic effects might outstrip the Spanish flu’s, even if the health effects remain much milder, due to the economy’s move toward in-person services, hospitality, and globalized supply chains, all of which are vulnerable to an outbreak like this. Indeed, one effect in 1918 that is not likely to be repeated is an increase in wages in some countries due to a shortage of workers.

    It’s natural to want to compare the two outbreaks, and it can be responsible to do so if the comparison is done with care and nuance. But it’s important to keep in mind just how severe the Spanish flu outbreak was, and that while Covid-19 could get much worse, it would have to infect several thousand times as many people as it has to date to match the Spanish flu’s reach. The Covid-19 situation will only get that bad if we fail to adequately adopt measures like social distancing, aggressive testing, and quarantining, and let it get that bad.
    “El revolucionario: te meteré la bota en el culo"

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Emil El Zapato For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (12th March 2020), Dreamtimer (12th March 2020), Wind (12th March 2020)

  15. #173
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th January 2015
    Location
    Just here
    Posts
    7,207
    Thanks
    33,716
    Thanked 27,307 Times in 7,221 Posts
    Trump suspends travel from Europe to US:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51846923

    In a televised address on Wednesday, he said all travel from Europe would be suspended for the next 30 days.

    But he said the "strong but necessary" restrictions would not apply to the UK, where 460 cases of the virus have now been confirmed.

    There are 1,135 confirmed cases of the virus across the US, with 38 deaths.

    "To keep new cases from entering our shores, we will be suspending all travel from Europe to the United States for the next 30 days," Mr Trump said.

    "The new rules will go into effect Friday at midnight," he added.

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Wind For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (12th March 2020), Dreamtimer (12th March 2020), Emil El Zapato (12th March 2020)

  17. #174
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th January 2015
    Location
    Just here
    Posts
    7,207
    Thanks
    33,716
    Thanked 27,307 Times in 7,221 Posts
    I don't want to sound alarmist quite yet, but the stock market is taking a severe hit:
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/th...?mod=home-page

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Wind For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (12th March 2020), Dreamtimer (12th March 2020), Emil El Zapato (12th March 2020)

  19. #175
    Retired Member United States
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    14,610
    Thanks
    70,673
    Thanked 62,025 Times in 14,520 Posts
    And it was just last month my brother was bragging about the economy. Even though the markets are not the economy. They are an indicator. And they are very emotional.

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (12th March 2020), Emil El Zapato (12th March 2020), Wind (12th March 2020)

  21. #176
    Super Moderator Wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th January 2015
    Location
    Just here
    Posts
    7,207
    Thanks
    33,716
    Thanked 27,307 Times in 7,221 Posts
    They are very volatile and things like this just show how ridiculous and fragile the whole system is, it's like a house of cards.

  22. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Wind For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (12th March 2020), Dreamtimer (12th March 2020), Emil El Zapato (12th March 2020)

  23. #177
    Retired Member United States
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    14,610
    Thanks
    70,673
    Thanked 62,025 Times in 14,520 Posts
    Yeah, my Dad explained that to me decades ago. When we stop trusting each other, the house will begin to fall.

  24. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (12th March 2020), Emil El Zapato (12th March 2020), Wind (12th March 2020)

  25. #178
    Retired Member Hungary
    Join Date
    10th July 2018
    Posts
    1,862
    Thanks
    4,696
    Thanked 8,908 Times in 1,858 Posts
    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...e-u-s-does-not

    Singapore Wins Praise For Its COVID-19 Strategy. The U.S. Does Not

    Hong Kong and Singapore were hit early with the coronavirus. But each now has fewer than 200 cases, while France, Germany and Spain, which were hit late, all have more than 10 times that number.

    Three weeks ago, Italy had only three cases. Now it has more than 10,000.
    These dramatic differences show that how governments respond to this virus matters, says Mike Ryan, the World Health Organization's head of emergencies.
    "Hope is not a strategy," says Ryan, who is an epidemiologist. "We are still very much in the up cycle of this epidemic."

    The veteran of numerous global health crises, from SARS to bird flu to Ebola, Ryan points out that incredibly aggressive measures by China, South Korea and Japan appear to be bringing outbreaks in those countries under control.
    "There's clearly an indication that a systematic government-led approach using all tactics and all elements available seems to be able to turn this disease around," he says.

    He has been pleading with governments around the world to prepare for the new coronavirus before it shows up at their door — or to spring into action when it does arrive.

    That's what Hong Kong and Singapore did.

    Both quickly set up systems to try to identify and treat every case in their territory. Hong Kong developed diagnostic tests and rapidly deployed them to labs at every major hospital in the city. At one point in February, Hong Kong had 12,000 people in quarantine. Singapore's prime minister called for calm and assured residents that all health care related to the disease would be free.

    Both Hong Kong and Singapore continue to find a few new cases each week, but they've avoided the explosive outbreaks that have occurred elsewhere.
    Ashish Jha, who runs the Harvard Global Health Institute, says the response to the coronavirus has varied dramatically around the world. "Some countries have been very aggressive and have actually done quite a good job," he says. "Other countries have been quite lackadaisical and, I think, have suffered immensely from it. And I think there are lessons to be learned for all of us."

    Italy and Iran both fall in the latter category. Jha says that before cases of COVID-19 were first diagnosed, Italy and Iran appeared to be in denial about the disease.
    "I mean, you had the Iran deputy health minister coughing on national television talking about coronavirus," Jha says. "But really not taking it seriously."
    That deputy health minister later tested positive for the virus.
    As people started to get sick, neither Italy nor Iran did much testing. They were slow to stop mass gatherings. Eventually both countries were overwhelmed with cases.

    So how has the United States' response been?

    "Our response is much, much worse than almost any other country that's been affected," Jha says.
    He uses the words "stunning," "fiasco" and "mind-blowing" to describe how bad it is.

    "And I don't understand it," he says incredulously. "I still don't understand why we don't have extensive testing. Vietnam! Vietnam has tested more people than America has." (He's citing data from earlier this week. The U.S. has since started testing more widely, although exact figures still aren't available at a national level.)
    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention started screening overseas travelers for coronavirus in mid-January. But the initial test kits developed by the CDC were flawed, and it took weeks to sort out the problems. It's only this week that wide-scale testing has started to become available in the United States.
    Jha believes that the weekslong delay in deploying tests — at a time when numerous other tests were available around the world — has completely hampered the U.S. response to this crisis.

    "Without testing, you have no idea how extensive the infection is. You can't isolate people. You can't do anything," he says. "And so then we're left with a completely different set of choices. We have to shut schools, events and everything down, because that's the only tool available to us until we get testing back up. It's been stunning to me how bad the federal response has been."

    He says right now there are probably five to 10 times as many cases out in the community as have actually been detected. Until these individuals are found, they are likely to infect more people, he says, and the outbreak in the United States is just going to continue to grow.

    As of Wednesday night ET, the U.S. had 1,281 cases, while Hong Kong, which started testing in January, had only 126.

  26. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (12th March 2020), Dreamtimer (12th March 2020), Emil El Zapato (12th March 2020), Wind (12th March 2020)

  27. #179
    Retired Member United States
    Join Date
    7th April 2015
    Location
    Patapsco Valley
    Posts
    14,610
    Thanks
    70,673
    Thanked 62,025 Times in 14,520 Posts
    We've collectively become dolts.

  28. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dreamtimer For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (12th March 2020), Emil El Zapato (12th March 2020), Wind (12th March 2020)

  29. #180
    Retired Member Hungary
    Join Date
    10th July 2018
    Posts
    1,862
    Thanks
    4,696
    Thanked 8,908 Times in 1,858 Posts
    Here's the part that concerns me:

    So how has the United States' response been?

    "Our response is much, much worse than almost any other country that's been affected," Jha says.
    He uses the words "stunning," "fiasco" and "mind-blowing" to describe how bad it is.

    "And I don't understand it," he says incredulously. "I still don't understand why we don't have extensive testing. Vietnam! Vietnam has tested more people than America has."
    And I agree, it makes no logical sense why the US response has been as it is, especially on the federal level.

    So, I'm putting my Krazy Konspirasi Theorist tinfoil hat on for a minute and will try to wildly speculate about what might be going on here.

    Something about the US response has not made sense to me from the very beginning.

    There are certain pieces lying about, but putting them together has not really been possible so far. I intend to check out what David Icke has to say on the subject, because he usually has a knack for seeing through the deception, notwithstanding some of his more outlandish material.

    There is something seriously wrong with this whole setup, I can feel it in my bones.

    My main concern is this:

    - The Neocons were removed from power just before the outbreak got under way.

    - During that time, there was a trade war going on between the US and China, which was very tense and the "truce" was signed after the epidemic was already on the way in November.

    - Accusations, that this was a US-manufactured bioweapon were flying about from the very beginning, especially in Russia, who have probably better intel on this than anyone else. Putin is a hardcore ex-KGB/FSB guy, remember.

    - The US both the means and the motivation to deploy such a weapon against China and Iran, which were the two countries with the most serious outbreak in the beginning.

    - Trump seemed almost gleeful when he first spoke about the Coronavirus, saying things like this was a win for the USA and it would greatly benefit the country.

    - The CDC and other officials seem strangely unconcerned about the spread of the Virus in the US. Do they have a vaccine oven-ready, so-to-speak.

    Anyways, the above is pure speculation, but I am at the very least suspicious about the circumstances of this outbreak.

  30. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Aragorn (12th March 2020), Dreamtimer (13th March 2020), Emil El Zapato (12th March 2020), Wind (12th March 2020)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •