January 6 2021 Insurrection

[Aianawa]

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2023/11...O7eYufq5JKlpeY

Hey Chuckstirr, this is lies yes ?.

[Emil El Zapato]

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2023/11...O7eYufq5JKlpeY

Hey Chuckstirr, this is lies yes ?.

Unfortunately yes, Aianawa...it is based on doctored video...

[Aianawa]

How many hours were doctored did you think ?.

[Emil El Zapato]

Not sure Aianawa, I think it was just put together like throwing spaghetti against the wall.

[Aianawa]

The fella who was greeted, hand shaken by police, walked around, went away talking with a policeman twenty minutes later who is now doing time stills needs to rot in jail ?.

[Aragorn]

How many hours were doctored did you think ?.

You're getting it all wrong again, Vern. Even though the possibility exists that some manufactured scenes might find themselves inserted into the many hours of footage before the alt-right releases the footage to the public, the point is that it is once again the purest manipulation and propaganda on that site you linked to in your opening post, and that the people who are responding to the original message at that link are all falling for it again hook, line and sinker — which is no surprise, given that it's an echo chamber and that they all have their prejudices and paranoia.

Even if the footage does not contain any doctored scenes, the mere suggestion that the complete footage from the surveillance cameras would be telling another story than what had been shown of the insurrection in the media so far is enough to convince the followers that it would be so. The original poster knows that those followers are not going to be watching thousands of hours worth of video footage, and most likely, neither has he watched it himself. Because they don't need that, you see. Just a rumor, a mere suggestion, is already enough to keep them rabid and fuming at "the enemy". They will believe it because their brain is already predisposed to seeing things one way and not another way.

And yes, it is a known fact that some of the cops and security guards were indeed sympathetic to the insurgents and their cause, and were actively cooperating wit them to lead them into the building. This is known. And those cops/guards have in the meantime been relieved of their duty and are facing jail time themselves. The cop you see patting the insurgent on the back was one of those.

You only see what you want to see, Vern, and I've been telling you this for years already. If you only go to far-right information sources, then claims and manipulation as in that original post at that link — and as I've just seen you post again to that goddamn QAnon thread — are exactly what you will find. It's called confirmation bias, as I've told you again only recently.

QAnon was/is nothing other than a pro-fascist LARP that doubled as a mass-manipulation effort — and unfortunately, due to humans having interbred with vegetables, a very successful one too. And that has exactly been the modus operandi of any and all far-right movements anywhere in the world, although it has to be said that it has nowhere been as strong in the past 7 years as in the United States of America.

"If you repeat the lie long enough, then it will eventually be taken for truth."

(Joseph Goebbels, propaganda minister of the Nazi Party)

[Aianawa]

You be on a roll, may i reply ?

[Emil El Zapato]

You be on a roll, may i reply ?

I don't know Aianawa, having to ask for permission just to post or respond seems unseemly to me. Unless, I really misunderstand the definition of dialogue, even argument among friends. You've been here for quite some time and if you haven't earned that right then chances are you never will!

[Aragorn]

You be on a roll, may i reply ?

Of course, but I would advise you to make it readable. Not everyone here speaks Aianawese.

[Aianawa]

Read your post as a mirror, j lennon said it well , imagine , oh wait, have you ever known completely that you are correct, then put yourself inthe place of being totally incoorect, hard to do, learn but a great mindfullness xercise, feel deeply into being incorrect, switch emotions, melt into this that. the j6 was a complete sham, an obvious one imo, and lets see how many start forgiving, important the forgiving.

[Aianawa]

Cmon lets get real honest, if you only engulfed one narrative, you would be pissed at the other side, divide n conkher comes to ment.

[Aragorn]

Read your post as a mirror, j lennon said it well , imagine , oh wait, have you ever known completely that you are correct, then put yourself inthe place of being totally incoorect, hard to do, learn but a great mindfullness xercise, [...]

Yes, Vern, I question myself all the time — probably even more so than any other human being I know — and I am also always pondering other people's position.

...] feel deeply into being incorrect, switch emotions, melt into this that. the j6 was a complete sham, an obvious one imo, and lets see how many start forgiving, important the forgiving.

So you're saying that there was no insurrection, people did not break into the Capitol, no shots were fired, nobody got trampled, nobody died, no gallows were set up for Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi, there was no call for a guillotine, and no one smeared their feces on the walls? Well, you could have fooled me then, because I have seen the footage of those incidents with my own eyes, and what I've seen from it was all I ever needed to see. Everything else is unimportant. Oh, and I've also heard the speeches of Benito Trumpolini and Rudy Giuliani before and during the insurrection.

It was an insurrection, Vern, and it was orchestrated by genuine fascists and neo-Nazis, and fed by Donald Trump's false claim that the election had been stolen from him, because he is a clinical narcissist, an opportunistic hypocrite and a closet fascist himself, and he cannot accept defeat. If there was ever any sham in the insurrection, then it was the whole claim that the election had been stolen and that it was supposedly a peaceful protest.

It was all orchestrated and planned in advance — testimonial of which that whole "2'000 Mules" fakumentary — and therefore it was a coup d'état. Just imagine what would have happened if they had succeeded in getting to Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi. Those two people would have been dead by now.

---

Cmon lets get real honest, if you only engulfed one narrative, you would be pissed at the other side, divide n conkher comes to ment.

You are the one engulfed in only a single narrative, Vern. You are always looking unto the alt-right for your information, and they've got you reeled in hook, line and sinker. Whether it's about supposed election fraud, Joe Biden supposedly being a pedophile, or the Covid-19 vaccines supposedly killing people en masse. All of the narratives you espouse come from the alt-right, and it's also the only information you turn to, because you categorically jerk your knees over any other information sources.

And you are lecturing me on account of objectivity? I do not think I'd have anything left to prove anymore — to you and to anyone else — on account of where I stand in terms of integrity, neutrality and politics, Vern.

We are living in a very complex world, Vern. Always has been, and always will be. And there will always be factions that seek and lust for power, and that are willing to kill to obtain and maintain it. But there is no world-wide conspiracy, and the Illuminati — who were not quite what people think they were — have all been hunted down and killed by the Roman Catholic Church centuries ago.

The only thing that roughly comes close today to the original objectives of the Bavarian Illuminati is Freemasonry, and while that too may be a questionable organization in many ways, they are not the ones ruling the world. Those who are ruling the world are a disjointed group of wealthy people, mostly from the corporate world, and their respective lackeys in the various governments.

There are no baby-eating reptilian, shape-shifting pedophiles with a communist agenda, Vern. If you understood anything at all about psychology, sociology, history and politics — and those are all things I myself happen to have been educated in, and quite thoroughly so — then you'd know how absurd those alt-right claims are. And the worst part of it is that the people who propagate those claims are so stupid that they not only actually believe all that bullshit, but that they're also completely oblivious to how they themselves are fascists or closet fascists.

They don't even realize it. Because all they know how to do is look for splinters in the eyes of the other person, and they're completely missing the beam in their own. Their consciousness level is no better than that of an animal, if not worse. And sadly enough, this is becoming a disturbingly widespread phenomenon, in part because people don't feel the need to think anymore when they have computers — and now A.I., even — to do their thinking for them, and they grow up without being taught any values, or what it even means to be a human being.

I have posted several Abby Marin videos over the last couple of days in which Abby briefly touches upon the sources of fascism in America — and indirectly, the sources of these conspiracy theories — and it all comes from the same angle, namely the Evangelical Christians. As if there ever was any doubt about that for anyone who has been looking at the American political and sociological climate a little more closely.

I don't follow any corporate media, Vern. I read the state-sponsored Belgian news media only, and yes, they too have an agenda. They are absolute Wokemons™, and I am perfectly aware of that — and disgusted by their Woke™ neuroticisms — but when it comes to reporting facts and dispelling misinformation, they are still spot-on. As they should be, because they are being paid from our taxes. And I have my own background, all the way from my education to my own life experience, and all of it seen though the lens of my critical, inquisitive and analytical mind that constantly picks everything apart and then reassembles it into a bigger picture again.

I am not going to claim any intellectual superiority — I am not a narcissist, unlike that individual running another (and well-known) forum — but it would really be nice if you were to trust my judgment a little more. And my integrity.

[Emil El Zapato]

Ahh, there it is, 'trust your judgment'. I'm feeling you, but that is a problem because people don't tend to trust anyone, for hardly any reason if and when they are personally convinced of something else. There are techniques to chip away at someone's convictions, it is a process and requires a willingness to speak to the belief with a degree of willingness and openness.

Gio's post with Friedman and Mearsheimer (sp) is a classic example. Mearsheimer is a thinker but once anyone goes on long enough they will start to expose there own weakpoints, no one is all knowing. The best anyone can do is to be knowledgeable and hold 'opinions'. In particular, the more complex a landscape gets the more potential there is for disagreement. So, while it is understandable to be 'incensed' when someone is bound and determined to contradict your strongly held 'beliefs/opinions', it is incumbent upon us to allow latitude for someone to exercise their rights. We have the 1st amendment here in the good ol' U.S. and the way I interpret it is that if one is civil and prosocial then they are on solid ground. We should all have an inherent understanding of good and evil and should try to stay on the lighted path. Failing that, all bets are off.

One time when my daughter was much younger, I asked her to trust my judgment and I asked her if she trusted her 'daddy' and she said no. I calmly explained to her that she 'had' to trust me...

[Aragorn]

Ahh, there it is, 'trust your judgment'.

I specifically wrote that for Vern, and with regard to the alt-right narratives he's buying into. I was not insinuating that I'd be all-knowing. But to paraphrase Carlo Rovelli from a scientific presentation I was watching yesterday evening — note: I do not necessarily agree with the theory he was espousing in said video, because I have my own hypotheses about the particular subject he was talking about — it is the nature of a scientific mind to try and look at things from different perspectives, and to be open to the possibility that one has to change one's interpretation of what one observes.

I do have a scientific mind, and not just because I come from a background in science. Rather, I chose an education in science because I already had a scientific mind to begin with. Not to brag or put myself on a pedestal in any way, but without that I had ever even heard of the name Nikola Tesla, I was already doing all kinds of scientific research on my own and coming up with theories — many of them completely wrong, of course — when I was only 12-13 years old. I was devouring all kinds of science books from the public library, I was doing experiments with optics, electricity and magnetism, I had (and still own) a microscope — I think I was only 9 or 10 when I got that one — and I was drawing up schematics and doing calculations on a cheap scientific pocket calculator.

I'm feeling you, but that is a problem because people don't tend to trust anyone, for hardly any reason if and when they are personally convinced of something else.

But this is exactly where the internet has turned out all wrong. Monetized platforms such as YouTube have given rise to so-called influencers — may piss be upon them (© Sidinugget) — and the democratizing of the internet in the 1990s has also given a loud and far-reaching voice to all kinds of mentally ill individuals. Just look at all the junk that was posted here at the forum by Ria (and others like her), and specifically, look at — and try backtracking — the links that she posted.

And of all the lobbies in the world, the far-right movements — and especially those from the USA, because that's where the internet originates and was first allowed access to for the public, as well as that US Americans are the loudest and most opinionated voices on the entire internet — immediately recognized the potential of the internet as a platform for disseminating their propaganda and rallying support. I have even posted threads here at the forum with articles on the leaked scandal of how Steve Bannon and his Cambridge Analytica company were using Facebook (now called Meta) — with Facebook's consent! — for targeting and recruiting people into supporting Donald Trump in 2016, and how this campaign was probably in large part responsible for Trump getting elected into the White House in 2016.

The objective of the alt-right/far-right has never been honesty, integrity, honor or fairness. Their objective was to win and reign, period, and any method is good enough for them to attain that goal, including cheating. They espouse the methodology of psychopaths and Machiavellians under the guise that it's all about freedom, especially from the government, and even more especially so if said government is (mostly) made up of (perceived) left-wing individuals — that which is perceived as the left-wing in the USA is actually not left-wing at all, because the Republican Party and the Democratic Party are both bought and paid for by the corporate world.

And if you are then up against an ignorant population that has enjoyed only an abysmal education, that doesn't even know what either socialism or fascism are because they've been indoctrinated with misinformation and propaganda all of their lives, that neither knows nor understands anything about any other countries and cultures beyond the borders of the United States — other than perhaps Mexico and Canada — then, if you are indeed without conscience or scruples, it is only child's play to manipulate them and rally them into supporting your cause.

Concretely with regard to this surveillance footage from the Capitol during the riots, do you really think that there would be anything in there that corroborates the far-right claims that it would have been nothing other than a peaceful protest? No, of course not — and I didn't think you would either. But as I wrote in my previous post here on the thread, just the fact that the complete footage has now politically been made available and the innuendo behind how it was announced — and where, i.e. a far-right echo chamber — is already enough for the adherents of the far-right to take the innuendo for fact.

Because either way, none of those people will have either the time or the patience to go through thousands of hours worth of surveillance footage from multiple cameras. And the person who made that announcement knows this. And I seriously doubt whether he would have watched it either in the short time span between the official release by the House and the moment he posted his article. Not unless he has a time machine.

But you can read the reactions and the tweets already. Those people don't need to see the footage, because they've already had their minds made up from before the footage was even officially released. Or better yet, they've already had their minds made up from before the siege of the Capitol on the 6th of January 2021. They're not into facts; they are into rage. And in that, they are exactly like the Israeli government right now in its carpet-bombing of Gaza and its manufacturing of so-called evidence of there supposedly being a Hamas headquarter underneath every hospital in Gaza — yes, there is a bunker under the Al-Shifa hospital, because the IDF built that bunker there themselves a long time ago.

Anyway, this is not about Israel and Palestine, notwithstanding the parallels, given that Israel currently has a far-right government and practises the same mass manipulation and propaganda tactics as their US American blood-brothers — no surprise there, of course. No, this is about propaganda and about an insidious but very clever mass manipulation that covers so many different aspects of society, whether it's about the US elections and US-specific internal politics, or vaccines, or anything else that is perceived as a threat to the far-right agenda.

And no evidence is ever needed to convince the vast majority of their followers, because they react with their underbelly instead of with their brain. Just the innuendo is already enough, evidential of which the guy who stormed a restaurant with an assault rifle to "free the children being kept in the basement by the Pizzagate pedophiles" when the restaurant didn't even have a basement, or the guy who intended to kidnap Nancy Pelosi and when finding her not home, hit her husband on the head with a hammer. These people are rabid.

And as for the not-so-violent — like a certain naive and dyslexic Kiwi we all know to be dwelling this Shire — there are the talking heads and the influencers, and the misrepresented and intentionally or unintentionally misinterpreted statistics. It doesn't even matter whether it's an intentional misinterpretation or not if you're only going to appeal unto those statistics as support for a cause you're already committed to — cue the meme that statistics are commonly used the way a drunken man uses a lamp post, i.e. for support, rather than illumination. And the Kiwi keeps falling for it, as do millions of other people on the internet.

And — slightly off-topic for this particular thread, but not in the grander scheme of things — when it comes to the false claims and the FUD regarding the Covid-19 vaccines, this is nothing new. Anything vaccine-related has already been relentlessly attacked for decades, and even here in the Shire we've had people championing the long-disproved hypothesis that vaccines would be the cause of autism spectrum conditions. I've already had more than my own fair share of encounters with anti-vaxxers in the past, back when I was still on Facebook, and those people were just as rabid and vicious as those alt-righters storming the Capitol, calling for Nancy Pelosi's head on a stake and Mike Pence dangling from a rope with a noose around his neck, and who took a shit on the floor of the Capitol building and smeared their feces all over the walls of Congress.

That is not human behavior; that's animal behavior. And if it is human behavior, then I guess I must not be a human being, nor would I then want to be one.

[Emil El Zapato]

Amen to every bit of that!