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Thread: The Lines Have Been Drawn

  1. #91
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    You want to be taken seriously, I get that, I've gotten that over multiple for what, maybe 6 years now?

    It looks like you really want to know what's up with the way Fred Six Pack looks at you Adam so I'll tell you straight up, man to man, right here on the open forum just as you did earlier but unfortunately edited out. Now that I have some time after work and chores, I'm going to address this apparent simmering situation.

    Spanning multiple forums, over 6 or whatever years now, I have been unable to determine whether you are some off brand sort of a troll, or a highly intelligent individual looking out at the world around him from a very small box of unchallenged ideals and philosophies. Dude, you haven't changed one ioda that I can determine in 6 damn years now. It's the same old shit just different topics and situations!

    So just like in the famous line from the warden in "Cool Hand Luke": "He wants it, he gets it".

    Hopefully this doesn't derail the thread too much.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  3. #92
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    hmm...ok, then honestly there is nothing I can say or do because with me...what you see is what you get...hence NotAPretender...

    Apparently, I do in fact possess insight that many others don't. It is the only thing that would explain being unchallenged for whatever number of years. I've always said straight up...I will never budge from what I believe is the problem...it is humanity insisting on being an animal. As man's nature hasn't evolved over the last 6 years is it any wonder I haven't changed my tune.

    Truthfully, the things that most people on Avalon find 'enlightening' I experienced when I was 8 years old... I had a very rough childhood... . That's why I don't buy into it...because none of it is a secret to be discovered, it is a reality to be changed by going to the root of the problem. Yes, I can agree, go along, and say 'omigod' that's profound when often it isn't really. The ability to write and through that medium to articulate ideas doesn't make those ideas anymore or less profound...just articulated...Maybe I really do need to try harder to express what I really mean to be more 'agreeable' and 'understandable'...but very few ever have despite my effort, even my inability to do so...I spent a good part of my high school years being told by friends to explain myself because they weren't going to let me get away with it anymore.

    If someone wants to challenge my perspective...well, then challenge my perspective...not their own projected on to me...doing that is useless. How or why would I ever change?

    And, if anyone wants me to say or do something 'else'...then say something else to me, something that makes me go ... hmmm. Actually, Maggie has been doing a pretty good job of that lately... But, inevitably the new leads to the old and provides more of a solidification to my already very solid worldview and philosophy.

    BUT, on the other hand, I could go one layer deeper and just state that my daddy always said, "Boy, there's something wrong with you!"...
    Last edited by NotAPretender, 4th April 2019 at 01:36.
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  5. #93
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post

    If someone wants to challenge my perspective...well, then challenge my perspective...not their own projected on to me...doing that is useless. How or why would I ever change?

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqs65RKof94


    what if.......this is all made up just for you......

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  7. #94
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I know you're not really serious Fred, but I must say, you're not stupid. Not at all. Stubborn, sure. Stupid? No way.

    Has your wife been with you for many years, including your transformation from being very right-leaning? (I'm inclined to say she's a great woman if that's the case, but she probably is anyway).

    God bless Larry for writing that in your yearbook.

    Thumbs up to Maggie.

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  9. #95
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    I was unsure where to place this but ultimately, after thinking about it for a while, this thread seemed the most appropriate spot be that she comes off to me as a line eraser.

    I've mentioned Tulsi Gabbard who is a dark horse running for president here a time or two because she is the rarest of politicians (actually unprecedented) who have unexpectedly impressed me. Up til now the only times I have really seen her has been on mainstream news programs where she's on the defensive the whole time for being anti war, and anti regime change, but after this recent interview that actually gave her the opportunity to open up to who and what she really is, I'm concerned that if she winds up garnering too much support she may be a candidate for an assassin's bullet.

    So this is a shout out to people like Aragorn who are most understandably sick and tired of hearing about U.S. domestic politics. *This Is Not That*, and as you well know I'm not easily impressed...

    As far as I'm concerned what she is about is more in line with a modern day Martin Luther King or Ghandi type of a message, the type that only come along every so often. I know it's only politics, but American presidents affect the entire planet. If Trump is the worst we can offer up to represent us, then Tulsi is IMO the best we can offer up. Give her a listen I think you'll be very surprised, especially the last 20 or so minutes, the impromptu second part of the interview.

    Especially in this current climate, her message has the chance of catching fire if she gets exposure, if she makes it to the debate stage, and that message is very dangerous sounding to many well entrenched power interests.

    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 4th April 2019 at 11:46.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  11. #96
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    ...

    Things that are new(as far as I know):

    Open nepotism; Open flouting of laws; Widespread appointment of people to head agencies who can't do their job because they don't know what they're doing.

    I'm pretty sure there's not another time in this country's history where we had that.

    We've never had a President who leads chants to lock up regular Americans who are part of a political party. I'm pretty sure that's new too.

    ...
    It has been argued that nothing is new, it's all the same old same old.

    I pointed out some new things above and here.

    And things do change.

    Any thoughts from anyone?

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  13. #97
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    It has been argued that nothing is new, it's all the same old same old.

    I pointed out some new things above and here.

    And things do change.

    Any thoughts from anyone?
    Sure. First, If we must insist on making these dividing lines mostly about our current president, and the religious Right, then so be it keep beating that dead horse here.

    Second, the saying is "nothing new under the sun", and it is true when looked at through the lens of history, not tumultuous current events of any given era. It's a given that that all of this nation's dirty laundry in now on full public display, but that by no means implies that our dirty laundry here is a new thing. It just used to be kept more under wraps and it was done in a much more polished and polite manner.

    Rape me with a smile and a song, or keep snarling in my ear "I'm fucking you raw". Take your pick. Does a Somali man care whether a polished black president ordered the drone strike that blew his wife and kids to bits and pieces, or if it was ordered by some angry old orange man?

    I recall a U.S. Government that experimented on black men for four decades by giving them syphilis and not treating it, and as Tulsi mentions in her interview about us dethroning their queen of the Hawaiian Islands, and snatching those islands for our own at the point of a gun in the late 1800's.

    We can talk about a U.S. government that went in and snatched a third of Mexico's land in the 1840's, or we can jump ahead to an administration that started a horrific war in Vietnam based on a lie. I can go on and on if you like DT, did this fire just start, or has it been burning for some time now except it's just in our faces now?

    This is all U.S. oriented. What about Europe, and the rest of the known history of civilization, does what's happening here dwarf all of that? I'm sure Aragorn can tell us all about King Leopoldo for instance, now there was a dandy... or we can talk about certain Romen emperors or Genghis Khan for that matter.

    Are current events really that new under the sun? We can go to real, historical context if you want, or we can just keep bitching about this current administration under the banner of righteous indignation.
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 4th April 2019 at 14:52.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  15. #98
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maggie View Post

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqs65RKof94


    what if.......this is all made up just for you......

    At 1:18...
    Never enter a camp or pick a side.

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  17. #99
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    what if.......this is all made up just for you......

    interesting...it certainly makes sense, but one thing occurred to me...If I lose my keys when getting ready for work, should I stress about that?
    "A large infusion of cash will cure most forms of fanatacism" - Thumbnail Biographies

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  19. #100
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    I see why you like her Fred...if i'm wrong don't hesitate to tell me:

    She rejects 'identity politics' which you feel is good. I suppose it is but she is a bad model for which to measure 'identity politics'. She is Samoan and Hindu. What niche of identity politics is she going to comfortably fit into. She is not the product of 'higher thinking', she is a product of her genetics and heritage. But that's ok, too. Identity politics are imposed externally. Why would an equal citizen of the realm have to distinguish themselves by demographic category. They wouldn't, it would be pointless. I, myself wouldn't vote for a Hispanic because they were Hispanic. If they were a good human being, however, I would jump on that wagon with enthusiasm. I don't understand why a black/African-American would NOT vote for the very good human being called Obama (understand this id is imposed externally, African-Americans were not born callings themselves African-Americans, they were born callings themselves...kids, teenagers, young adults, and adults). It has to be born from a sense of self-deprecation, again imposed from an external source.

    If YOU can get past that false notion, then you are on the right track. She seems like an inherently decent person...I'll watch her.
    "A large infusion of cash will cure most forms of fanatacism" - Thumbnail Biographies

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  21. #101
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I'm not bitching under any banner, Fred. Maybe you'll figure that out one day.

    I've never been wed to any team and as I've said ad nauseum, I'm an American. Plain and Simple. It ain't that hard.

    Why do you want to know who is behind the scenes if this is just the same old same old?

    If I said I was a fan of Tulsi would you even believe me?

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  23. #102
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Has your wife been with you for many years, including your transformation from being very right-leaning? (I'm inclined to say she's a great woman if that's the case, but she probably is anyway).
    21 years now. Yes, I used to test her patience with the cheering on and praise of Bush and the neocons (sounds like a band!), and crap like the latest blatherings of Rush Limbaugh.

    Hey, by the way I didn't talk about side taking in either of my posts today, quite deliberately so.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  25. #103
    Senior Member palooka's revenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    At 1:18... Never enter a camp or pick a side.
    well, i could handle half the recipe anyway.... but... when U saw yer job was to try to bridge the gap, ya had to enter camp... all of 'em...

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  27. #104
    Senior Member palooka's revenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    ...

    Things that are new(as far as I know):

    Open nepotism; Open flouting of laws; Widespread appointment of people to
    head agencies who can't do their job because they don't know what they're doing.

    I'm pretty sure there's not another time in this country's history where we had that.

    We've never had a President who leads chants to lock up regular Americans
    who are part of a political party. I'm pretty sure that's new too.
    ...
    Any thoughts from anyone?

    yup, those 2 are new looks. question is, is it real or is it memorex? has there been a change in the underlying energies or are we just lookin' at a form change?



    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Sure. First, If we must insist on making these dividing lines mostly about our current president, and the religious Right, then so be it keep beating that dead horse here.

    Second, the saying is "nothing new under the sun", and it is true when looked at through the lens of history, not tumultuous current events of any given era. It's a given that that all of this nation's dirty laundry in now on full public display, but that by no means implies that our dirty laundry here is a new thing. It just used to be kept more under wraps and it was done in a much more polished and polite manner.

    Rape me with a smile and a song, or keep snarling in my ear "I'm fucking you raw". Take your pick. Does a Somali man care whether a polished black president ordered the drone strike that blew his wife and kids to bits and pieces, or if it was ordered by some angry old orange man?

    I recall a U.S. Government that experimented on black men for four decades by giving them syphilis and not treating it, and as Tulsi mentions in her interview about us dethroning their queen of the Hawaiian Islands, and snatching those islands for our own at the point of a gun in the late 1800's.

    We can talk about a U.S. government that went in and snatched a third of Mexico's land in the 1840's, or we can jump ahead to an administration that started a horrific war in Vietnam based on a lie. I can go on and on if you like DT, did this fire just start, or has it been burning for some time now except it's just in our faces now?

    This is all U.S. oriented. What about Europe, and the rest of the known history of civilization, does what's happening here dwarf all of that? I'm sure Aragorn can tell us all about King Leopoldo for instance, now there was a dandy... or we can talk about certain Romen emperors or Genghis Khan for that matter.

    Are current events really that new under the sun? We can go to real, historical context if you want, or we can just keep bitching about this current administration under the banner of righteous indignation.


    Fred...are U saying that current events are re-enactments of previous events reflecting that, other than form changes, the state or condition of the underlying energies leading to manifestation of events both then and now is purddy much made up of the same ju ju?
    Last edited by palooka's revenge, 5th April 2019 at 06:03.

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  29. #105
    Senior Member palooka's revenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    It's very ironic that the same passions and discontent are fueling both Bernie fans and Trump fans. They're divided and yet they want very similar things.

    It could be that our leader will inadvertently bring people together. Americans may finally unite in reaction to something or another coming from the Administration.

    Things that are new(as far as I know):

    Open nepotism; Open flouting of laws; Widespread appointment of people to head agencies who can't do their job because they don't know what they're doing.

    I'm pretty sure there's not another time in this country's history where we had that.

    We've never had a President who leads chants to lock up regular Americans who are part of a political party. I'm pretty sure that's new too.

    It may be that these things are so over the top that they actually end up bringing people together. Uniting them.

    That would be the grandest irony of all.
    i'm givin' yer speculation a whole lot more credit than Aragorn did albeit prolly not exactly like U may be seeing it play out DT. But I haven't got the juice to unpack it right now so it will have to suffice to just say...

    it's got everything to do with what Larry said to Fred...

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