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Thread: The Lines Have Been Drawn

  1. #46
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    I can report what I see with my own two eyeballs. Trump is a bigger prick in victory than most are as losers.

    I may actually get where I've been accused of being for 3 years...Actively hating Trump
    He IS a prick mother fucker, isn't he? I agree!

    Now Zen NAP, having gotten that off our chests, here's a roll of duct tape to wrap tightly around your head so that when it finally explodes out of utter exasperation, the goo doesn't go blasting out everywhere and splat the walls and ceiling.

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    In the meantime, serious people on the left are hashing out some serious ideas to try and be SERIOUSLY competetitive in the marketplace of ideas for the 2020 presidential elections, not just staying hunkered down and shackled in that dark psychological straight jacket of TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome).

    I think lefties like Jimmy Dore and company have a much better outlook on things: have some fun and some laughs while rallying the troops to get their living shit together, and STOP it with the blubbering nonsense:
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 30th March 2019 at 03:23.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

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  3. #47
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    The way you are using qualifiers on the other hand is stating in no uncertain terms that conservatives are violent, and speak in dog whistles. All of them.
    Pardon me? Would you care to clarify that? That comment is uncalled for and baseless.

    You need to stop looking at my posts through those shaded glasses of yours, Fred.

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  5. #48
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I'm supposed to be looking critically at my own team, right? I come from the right, not the left. And so that's what I'm doing.

    I was raised with values which I have consistently lived with. There is only one reason anyone calls me liberal. And that is the fact that the US has gone so far to the right. In many ways I live my life more conservatively than my parents did. And if our political conservative party was anything like it was when I was growing up I would be on board.

    But it's not. Not even close. (speaking of transformation)

    Conservatives have been the ones spearheading policy throughout my life. Conservatives have dominated since Reagan, through Gingrich, into the Tea Party and on to now with Trump.

    Personally, I'm going to focus on who has the power and how they're wielding it to screw things up for my son as he grows up.

    Personal bias? Sure. He's my offspring.

    It ain't me that matters.

    It's the children and the environment we leave to them. (I use the word environment with all it's meanings)

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  7. #49
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    Trump Derangement Syndrome is a righty thing, not a lefty thing. Conservatives became deranged and utterly flip-flopped/did a 180 after his election. That is Derangement 101. Class completed. Lindsay Graham is a good example. Utter flip flop. From 'Trump is a loon' to he'll do whatever Trump wants.

    That is classic derangement. And the Republican party itself has become deranged. Many prominent people have left the party due to its derangement. People like Steve Schmidt or Nicole Wallace who chose not to become deranged and throw all their values into the trash can.

    It's called projection. People are projecting that onto the left and then using confirmation bias to prove it by pointing at extremes.

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Me too, DT...Though I was raised in a Hispanic family, my dad was a military veteran that never got it out of his system. He used to wake us up in the morning before school with a bugle...I shit you not. My brother attended a military school and when he returned (he was the oldest) He would test our morning bedmaking by bouncing a dime off the bed to check if it passed muster. My entire family was flabbergasted when I dared suggest that I wasn't a flag waver...etc, ad nauseum.

    The only thing that separates me from the right is a true sense of compassion and a desire to be honest.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  11. #51
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    The way you are using qualifiers on the other hand is stating in no uncertain terms that conservatives are violent, and speak in dog whistles. All of them
    .
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Pardon me? Would you care to clarify that? That comment is uncalled for and baseless.

    You need to stop looking at my posts through those shaded glasses of yours, Fred.
    "Shaded glasses" and "baseless". Wow... Okay, well true to the point of this whole thread, let's lay out in greater detail this latest example of you dividing and labeling, based on nothing but political affiliation. (Side note: Replace "conservative" in similar broad based labeling situations with say, women, blacks, gays, Jews or liberals, and I invite the reader to ask themselves how it might sound).

    Conservatives in America have been talking about Civil War for quite some time now. Having been raised by conservatives and spent much time around them I have been able to see this for myself.

    Conservatives were lacking a national leader to back them. Now they have one.

    Conservatives brag on a regular basis about how they have guns and "the other side" doesn't. They know who they're gonna go shoot. And if someone is a heretic or unpatriotic they don't really have to think about the humanity of the person, do they?

    They have a leader who tells them that the other team "hates America" and "is not Patriotic". He speaks in a code they understand perfectly.
    Conservatives brag on a regular basis about how they have guns and "the other side" doesn't. They know who they're gonna go shoot.
    So conservatives "know who they're gonna shoot", but that's not saying they are violent eh?

    They have a leader who tells them that the other team "hates America" and "is not Patriotic". He speaks in a code they understand perfectly
    You're the one who first turned me on to what "dog whistle politics" is, and that's *precisely* what you are saying is going on there, just as I accurately pointed out.

    Dog Whistle:

    Jump to search
    Dog-whistle politics is political messaging employing coded language that appears to mean one thing to the general population but has an additional, different, or more specific resonance for a targeted subgroup. The analogy is to a dog whistle, whose ultrasonic whistling sound is heard by dogs but inaudible to humans.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

    And now once again my reaction to that of which you claim is so "uncalled for" and "baseless":

    The way you are using qualifiers on the other hand is stating in no uncertain terms that conservatives are violent, and speak in dog whistles. All of them.
    Last edited by Fred Steeves, 30th March 2019 at 23:15.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

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  13. #52
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I'm talking about what I've heard and seen firsthand. I'm sorry you don't like the truth of what I've witnessed, Fred. I'm sorry you don't like the truth of the attitudes of so many Americans.

    I'm even more sorry we have a president who talks about vast swaths of Americans and calls them unpatriotic and says that they hate our country.

    It's dangerous and it's bad and I'm going to continue to point it out.

    If I had such first-hand experience with another group then I'd write about that as well.

    I have not.

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    Super Moderator Norway Elen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post

    I'm even more sorry we have a president who talks about vast swaths of Americans and calls them unpatriotic and says that they hate our country.

    It's dangerous and it's bad and I'm going to continue to point it out.
    Amen to that!
    Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable. Anything of excellence and worthy of praise. Dwell on these things. Jesus Christ (I agree)

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  17. #54
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    In Truth, if white supremacists want a space for whiteness it will be an increasingly small space. Being white really ain't all it is cracked up to be. Ain't nothing wrong with it but that's the extent of it. The people that started this world were not white no matter the myths of 'superior others' or 'alien intervention' or 'anything else'. Twenty thousand years separates white from black and another twenty thousand years will erase that separation (actually less as we have been working at it for about ten thousand years). There will, from a racial perspective no longer be a dividing barrier.

    Try as they might those that think by squawking and being separatists they will preserve that 'sacred whiteness' are destined for the scrapheap of anthropological history. And what they are trying to preserve is not even emblematic of anything beyond the superficial phenotypical facade of skin color. How ignorant, shortsighted, and self-defeating.

    This is a reality of the future by any measure that I can think of. Preservation by extinction? What a concept!

    Trump is the quintessential example of a walking, talking ignoramus.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    In Truth, if white supremacists want a space for whiteness it will be an increasingly small space.
    IMO they been trying to keep that space against all odds for a looooong time. This is interesting tangentially to the bred in fears of racial impurity. But IMO those entranced by these concerns are sadly materialistically trapped. Another definition of "Aryan" is not about skin at all but consciousness.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJBwoMTUgAk

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  21. #56
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I'm talking about what I've heard and seen firsthand. I'm sorry you don't like the truth of what I've witnessed, Fred. I'm sorry you don't like the truth of the attitudes of so many Americans.

    I'm even more sorry we have a president who talks about vast swaths of Americans and calls them unpatriotic and says that they hate our country.

    It's dangerous and it's bad and I'm going to continue to point it out.

    If I had such first-hand experience with another group then I'd write about that as well.

    I have not.
    Okay, well now we're getting somewhere that we at least agree what I was seeing was indeed there. But we still have a problem, a very divisive problem, and seemingly an unsolvable problem. For starters if we're going to go down Danger Alley, I think it's dangerous to be going around lumping a group of people into one nice neat little bundle.

    Yes, certainly there is a slice of the Right that is locked and loaded and ready to rumble, they are the far extreme Right, and I despise them every bit as much as you do. But that is by NO means the entire Conservative movement. Not even close, it's a fringe minority along with the White Nationalists. Actually they're probably very close to being interchangeable.

    Just because you see those MAGA hat fanatics behind Trump during those rallies, going ape shit over every ridiculous thing that comes out of the man's mouth, doesn't mean they're ready when the dog whistle sounds to start blowing Liberals away on sight. Look, Tennessee where I live (especially the Eastern half where we live) is probably in the top two or three red states. They are by and large well armed, and the vast majority are very big on Trump, but, no one that I'm aware of is ready to go and start mowing down Liberals.

    It shouldn't come as any big surprise that when they ARE ready to start shooting, is the day there comes a knock at the door with people coming to take those guns away from them. THAT's when the big trouble comes, and that event just might be the one to actually spark off a possible civil war. At least a scattered regional one.

    Look, I know Conservatives as well because I used to be one, a very hard core one. This is when we lived in Florida, and you would have loved me ROFL!!! I proudly voted for Reagan and the Bush duo, supported the last Iraq war with an American flag proudly planted 25' high in my front yard, and dutifully listened to Rush Limbaugh for 20 years. I had all the right (pardon the pun) credentials, all the right opinions, and I was also armed. At NO point was I ever ready to start mowing down those much despised Liberals. I didn't know anyone else even contemplating the idea, it would have been seen as crazy talk.

    Aside from politics your average Conservative is by and large just like anyone else. I was of and amongst them my whole life in Florida, and I'm just plain old amongst them even more so here in Tennessee. They go to work every day, feed their families, pet the dog after work and pop a cold one or two. Then they cap off the evening by watching Sean Hannity before turning in. But so fucking what? Many Liberals faithfully watch Rachel Maddow and her Russia muh Pussia madness every night.

    So maybe that explains a little why I don't appreciate blanket statements like Conservatives are ready to start shooting and republicans are ugly...

    You know I've been watching this little civil war on the left. We have the establishment wing always in power, but now we have two factions of this new Bernie inspired far Left movement. Problem is that ONE of the two factions is very authoritarian. They pretty much want to shut down, and even punish anyone who doesn't agree with them. They would shut down free speech in a heartbeat if they could, except for the speech that they like.

    Now of course I'm not down with that shit, I think it would ultimately be every bit as dangerous as if the Alt Right got into power. Although I'm not a Progressive either, I'm not anything any more, I'm there in spirit with the other competing wing of the Left; the Joe Rogans, Jimmy Dore, Tim Pool, Tulsi Gabbard etc. In other words the problem solvers, the ones with big ideas, the ones looking for areas of agreement where certain things could move forward EVEN with those whom they seldom agree with.

    What a novel idea eh? Actually being willing to talk with the other side rather than going along with the herd and demonizing them at every turn, even being willing to take a critical eye to one's own side for things that may need to change.

    What's the way out here? What if a Conservative says "Liberals want to ban free speech". First off is that accurate? Well, it's no more accurate than Conservatives "know who they're gonna go shoot".

    But second, is it productive, or destructive... No one on either side is going to appreciate being talked to like that, especially if the charge doesn't even apply to them. How are people of good faith, on BOTH sides (and yes there are people of good faith on the Right as well), ever going to begin talking to each other if we can't even get past hurling party line insults at each other.

    I'm stuck in the middle here. Some things I like about the Right, probably more things I like about the Left, but one thing I'm sick of is watching the two sides warring with each other.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I'm even more sorry we have a president who talks about vast swaths of Americans and calls them unpatriotic and says that they hate our country.
    I agree that is very dangerous. I think he's unhinged.

    Now I'll sign off with the single biggest thing the Left and the Right could begin to come to terms with each other, the single over arching issue that Bernie voters and Trump voters had in common: they were fed up with the establishment and the status quo. They still are, except the Right is allowing Captain Chaos to take them over the cliff with him. They're lizard brain is being tickled by him.

    That could easily happen to the Left as well if they are not careful. Nobody is immune to this disruptive and divisive disease.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  23. #57
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Hi Maggie

    This is interesting...I wonder if the 'pull' is related to a need for genetic diversity and its relation to 'difference' (i.e. exoticism). We can see this manifested in the 'lure of Asian women' today.

    So, in effect, this guy is claiming that Cro-Magnon was white and not related at all to sub-saharan Africans. Interesting, it would also seem that he is claiming that Cro-Magnon was predominately Rh-Negative. Rh-Negative blood type has been traced to have sprung by mutation (or otherwise) approximately 35,000 years ago, yet, Homo Sapiens has been around for 300,000 years.

    What's really interesting is the suggestion that Cro-Magnon was phenotypically white. That puts a considerably different spin on things than I've ever considered...Hooray, for a little education. I'm not sure that I would agree with the approach, but it is obviously true that white people came from somewhere.

    Here are some facts I looked up:

    "Cro-Magnon"
    Haplogroup N is a human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) clade. A macrohaplogroup, its descendant lineages are distributed across many continents. Like its sibling macrohaplogroup M, macrohaplogroup N is a descendant of the haplogroup L3.

    All mtDNA haplogroups found outside of Africa are descendants of either haplogroup N or its sibling haplogroup M. M and N are the signature maternal haplogroups that define the theory of the recent African origin of modern humans and subsequent early human migrations around the world. The global distribution of haplogroups N and M indicates that there was likely at least one major prehistoric migration of humans out of Africa, with both N and M later evolving outside the continent.

    That being stated, it doesn't discount the 'white' origins of Mohammedism or even Egyptian origin as the dating doesn't conflict. But it does leave me in a quandary as to why 'whiteness' would be preferred beyond the fact of Freudian 'unconscious'. Hmm, that still makes sense to me.

    I missed this earlier. Essentially both Cro-Magnon and Neanderthals became extinct. Neanderthals earlier than Cro-Magnon:

    "The Cro-Magnon or European Early Modern Humans (EEMH) or Western European Hunter Gatherers (WHG) lived in south-western Europe about 45,000–15,000 years ago, and did not have Neanderthal-specific alleles in their gene pool. European early modern humans

    They made a minority contribution to Modern Europeans, as did Neanderthals. Both lineages were somewhat overwhelmed by later contributions from Neolithic farmers from Anatolia/Middle East and by Indo-European herders with horses and chariots from north of the Caucasus."

    A Little More:

    This seems like a pretty good lecture. The highlight is that approximately 73,000 years ago a volcanic explosion took place that reduced the world's population of modern humans to about 10,000 specimens, mostly in Africa which at the time became an inhospitable place. And that precipitated the migration into Europe and elsewhere.

    https://www.lindahall.org/event/cro-magnon/

    The Löwenmensch figurine or Lion-man of the Hohlenstein-Stadel is a prehistoric ivory sculpture discovered in the Hohlenstein-Stadel, a German cave in 1939. The German name, Löwenmensch meaning "lion-human", is used most frequently because it was discovered and is exhibited in Germany.

    Last edited by NotAPretender, 1st April 2019 at 00:17.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  25. #58
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Easily in my top 5 of above the fray thinkers over at The Project is my old friend enfoldedblue, who has apparently been looking at the same thing I have concerning taking sides, and the overall fundamental nature of divisiveness.

    Cheers Christina!

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...d-With-a-Side-...
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Easily in my top 5 of above the fray thinkers over at The Project is my old friend enfoldedblue, who has apparently been looking at the same thing I have concerning taking sides, and the overall fundamental nature of divisiveness.

    Cheers Christina!

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...d-With-a-Side-...
    I have seen that thread over there, and I was already wondering about the synchronicity.

    And of course, as was to be expected, the resident right-wing bigot has been all over her because her views don't fit into his narrow mindset. But at the same time, she's done a remarkable job at avoiding the pigeonholes he's trying to push her into.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Thing is, I am seeing the whole picture and my remonstrations of Trump are far, far more harsh than what she suggests. Trump transcends politics, he is a 'thing' emanating representative values. And the represented values are disgusting. Authoritarianism and Self-First! These are the qualities that send minds aflutter with visions of good and evil. And he sucks! He is the very last dreg of humanity and he is President of the United States!
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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