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Thread: The Lines Have Been Drawn

  1. #31
    Senior Member palooka's revenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Very difficult separating from the herd.
    Not when you're not part of the herd to begin with!!

    30 yrs ago i sat at the bar at the Rhett Butler lounge staring at a sign on the back bar while all around me the band played, the people danced and laughed together and, later that night, (probably) paired off and got layed.

    The sign read....

    Are you having fun yet?


    Which, of course, pissed me off to no end because.... NO... i was NOT having fun yet!!

    BUT... i am now. All that pain and misery over not fitting in was part of what led me to get sober... AND... be very glad and grateful that I didn't fit in then... and... still don't!! At least, not to that scene...

    *IMO our overall shared reality is fixed,
    That certainly leaves little room for hope, eh? And thus the idea of the hundredth monkey... and... sand pile theory... is just so much bullshit in the face of fate...

    Yet, history shows paradigm shifts are real. Were such shifts predestined by some mad scientist in the sky?

    if so, pour me another drink!!!


    ... it may give a little around the edges every now and zen, but overall these are the rules we have to live by. Like the law of gravity.*
    Oh those pesky fundamental forces of nature!

    Will the real godzilla please stand up?

    Denial creates an experience or experiences equal to or greater
    than the denial so the denial can be cleared.


    That is an unrecognized fundamental force of nature. Thus, the UNSEEN role denial is playing in manifestation.

    Were we to begin to see it a whole lotta things would start to make sense and we might even call it GODZILLA!!!!

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  3. #32
    Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    okkkk, Fred, that guy is in fantasyland. To refer to Russiagate as a hoax is completely ridiculous. The American intelligence framework had concerns that Trump was acting as an agent. Why would you refuse to believe that and in turn trust a face on the internet? Think carefully about that one.
    Do you think the media is telling the truth and you can trust what the American intelligence agencies say?

    Would you think think that they told you the truth about Roswell, the Bay of Pigs, JFK's murder, 9/11, Snowden etc...

    Think carefully about that one.

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  5. #33
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I see why you did that, Fred.

    The problem as I see it is, as soon as there is a qualifier, the door is wide open for pre-bias.

    I often tell stories about women and black people without actually saying that it's a black person or a woman. It may not even matter. And if it does, people will figure it out in the course of the telling.

    It's a good technique because a person's reaction when they realize who the subject is can be quite revealing. They haven't had a chance to gear up their cover, or put up their shields.

    It's also a good way to get through to someone and past their biases.

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  7. #34
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Not by default, of course not...but one can feel which way the 'wind' blows. The wind is blowing in the direction of the FBI, CIA, DOJ, etc. Those you cited are all 'events', not a flow of truth or falsity.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world, but in all the confusion I've forgotten what it was"

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  9. #35
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    okkkk, Fred, that guy is in fantasyland. To refer to Russiagate as a hoax is completely ridiculous. The American intelligence framework had concerns that Trump was acting as an agent. Why would you refuse to believe that and in turn trust a face on the internet? Think carefully about that one.
    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Do you think the media is telling the truth and you can trust what the American intelligence agencies say?

    Would you think think that they told you the truth about Roswell, the Bay of Pigs, JFK's murder, 9/11, Snowden etc...

    Think carefully about that one.
    Weapons of mass destruction would be another fine example. I have noticed more and more over time that most people will flow with any source of information which confirms their pre set confirmation bias. When Comey came out with the news about Hillary for instance, right before the election, liberals cried foul and conservatives cheered. When Mueller was tasked to investigate Trump conservatives cried foul, and liberals cheered.

    I wonder who would have cried foul, and who would have cheered were Comey to have come out with news about Trump right before the election, and Mueller later being tasked with investigating a President Clinton? LOL, never mind it's a rhetorical question, the answer to that one is obvious on the face of it. The roles would have been perfectly reversed.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I see why you did that, Fred.

    The problem as I see it is, as soon as there is a qualifier, the door is wide open for pre-bias.

    I often tell stories about women and black people without actually saying that it's a black person or a woman. It may not even matter. And if it does, people will figure it out in the course of the telling.

    It's a good technique because a person's reaction when they realize who the subject is can be quite revealing. They haven't had a chance to gear up their cover, or put up their shields.

    It's also a good way to get through to someone and past their biases.
    I think the only real, potential problem with qualifiers is in how they are used. As a matter of fact, ironically the below post by you earlier in this thread is a great example of how NOT to use qualifiers. When I said the commentator was a lefty, it was merely to show that the gentleman freely and proudly identifies as far left. There's nothing wrong with that.

    The way you are using qualifiers on the other hand is stating in no uncertain terms that conservatives are violent, and speak in dog whistles. All of them.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Conservatives in America have been talking about Civil War for quite some time now. Having been raised by conservatives and spent much time around them I have been able to see this for myself.

    Conservatives were lacking a national leader to back them. Now they have one.

    Conservatives brag on a regular basis about how they have guns and "the other side" doesn't. They know who they're gonna go shoot. And if someone is a heretic or unpatriotic they don't really have to think about the humanity of the person, do they?

    They have a leader who tells them that the other team "hates America" and "is not Patriotic". He speaks in a code they understand perfectly.
    And from the same post:

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I'm curious Fred, you have seen side-taking with myself and others where it didn't exist. Are you perhaps more cynical than necessary?
    But there's no side taking going on round here. I'm seeing things that don't really exist...

    Probably no side taking here either...

    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Republicans are ugly...
    If I didn't know better I'd swear there's the whiff of some gaslighting in the air.

    Gaslight:

    manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  11. #36
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Weapons of mass destruction is a very good example... Was that an outright lie or a serious mistake...everybody is human. I really had no opinion beyond Hussein was a f*ckhead in the mold of Donald Trump. Trump cannot be believed...period. He is the lowest of the lowest...anything thrown at him is gonna stick for my money. The one thing separating Trump versus Hillary is that Trump has a lifetime of 'weird' manipulative behavior. I use 'weird' because what he does is not normal. He isn't a normal criminal like (let's use Hillary), he is a perversion of social responsibility. If that makes me blind to all the lies that comprise 'RussiaGate'...Then so be it...If Trump could just once do or say something within the realm of reality, I might reconsider. But not until then.

    And it isn't even about 'conspiracies'...it's about all the confirmed and documented situations he has been part of...nothing to do with politics...though honestly, it would be a rare day that it wasn't a modern right winger that would behave with this much contempt for social propriety...he's scum.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world, but in all the confusion I've forgotten what it was"

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  13. #37
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally posted by palooka's revenge View Post
    That certainly leaves little room for hope, eh? And thus the idea of the hundredth monkey... and... sand pile theory... is just so much bullshit in the face of fate...

    Yet, history shows paradigm shifts are real. Were such shifts predestined by some mad scientist in the sky?

    if so, pour me another drink!!!

    Oh those pesky fundamental forces of nature!

    Will the real godzilla please stand up?
    You certainly have a unique way with words PR. I guess it depends on what one defines as "hope". The term has been so bastardized by politicians, guru's and the like I only ever use it in it's every day form as in: "I hope the rain holds off until we get this wood stacked inside".

    It sounds to me like you know full well the power of self transformation, and that's the type of ever unfolding little miracles in this realm that truly get my attention, and command my respect.

    Now I must have missed these paradigm shifts history offers up, can you please shoot me an example or two? From the 50,000' view I see nothing new under the sun. Yes I see many big changes, a huge one we are in the midst of currently, but are we not still basically corralled like cattle grazing in the field?

    I love the adage: "To see the farm is to leave it". I see that as a possible, but not likely individual achievement, not a mass achievement. But hey, it would be great to be wrong!
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  15. #38
    Senior Member palooka's revenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    This guy is one of the several voices of reason I follow to keep my finger on the pulse of things. A far lefty, yet all about ideas, solutions, and helping to mold his side's message to be as constructive for all as possible; not the usual excusing your own side and lambasting the other side as enemies of mankind that both sides regularly do. Note: this also includes not being afraid to hold those in one's own tribe accountable when warranted.

    He is a shining example of someone transcending the lines that divide us. If more people on both sides could manage this way of going about things, there might be hope for this country yet. I seriously doubt it, I think we're way too far gone down the ole shitter already, but well worth a listen anyway
    Trump is a reflection of who our country has become because of the standards and the lack of moral culpability that we have developed over the last couple of centuries. So we need to address the root of how a symptom like Trump can reveal the cancer that is running deep in our society.

    I couldn't agree more with that! And along those same lines, pretty much with what Greenwald and Taibbi are saying.. and, hey... I was born leanin' somewhere left of left. Given such a position at emergence I could not be more LIVID with the left than I am these days.

    I agree with U Fred... they're setting themselves up for another 4...

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  17. #39
    Moderator Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Weapons of mass destruction is a very good example... Was that an outright lie or a serious mistake...everybody is human.
    Not everybody, some are demons like Cheney and Rumsfeld. Come on man, that was just another big ass lie to justify the oil war to the American people. Reality ain’t what they tell you it is.

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  19. #40
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV1a9ZWeT4k


    Trump is a reflection of who our country has become because of the standards and the lack of moral culpability that we have developed over the last couple of centuries. So we need to address the root of how a symptom like Trump can reveal the cancer that is running deep in our society.
    Quote Originally posted by palooka's revenge View Post
    I couldn't agree more with that! And along those same lines, pretty much with what Greenwald and Taibbi are saying.. and, hey... I was born leanin' somewhere left of left. Given such a position at emergence I could not be more LIVID with the left than I am these days.
    That part struck me as well, very insightful and yet another major crossroads we find ourselves at here. This thing is so much bigger than just American politics IMO, but keeping American politics as a superb example of the overall situation I'm sure you've noticed that "Feel The Bern", and "MAGA" voters of 2016, had a lot more in common than our virtual State run media would feel comfortable having the proletariat take notice of.

    Can't have those average Joe's down there discovering areas of solidarity with each other. Nope, can't have that shit...
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member palooka's revenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    I love the adage: "To see the farm is to leave it". I see that as a possible, but not likely individual achievement, not a mass achievement. But hey, it would be great to be wrong!
    It was for me... literally! And i've never been back 'cept for weddin's 'n funerals in the fam...

    "I hope the rain holds off until we get this wood stacked inside".*
    I understand that brand... literally! I was in the trades too...

    Now I must have missed these paradigm shifts history offers up, can you please shoot me an example or two?
    From Hunter/Gatherers to Agriculture is the first one to come into mind. The general consensus is this happened over a long period of time but there is convincing evidence it happened very quickly (Graham Hancock's work comes to mind).

    I had intended to go on with more but your question triggered that answer for starters but that then triggered the memory that I'd written about this a few years back. Not so much in context of paradigm shift but, rather, in a way that will read like science fiction... 'cept for one thing... I'm dead serious...




    In case anyone's wonderin' just what the hell I'm yackin' 'bout over the unseen role of denial, this piece speaks directly to that. That's followed by my answer to Freeacre's question right there at the top of the comments section...

    freeacre*said...


    What is the EM Dynamic, p?
    I am STILL unclear as to what we are denying.
    Denying that we are part particle and part wave?
    Denying that there are soul-sucking entities that fuck with us?
    Denying our own power to live free?*


    I always signed myself off as “p...” on her blog where a handful of us hung out around the Trout Clan Campfire in the comments room... RIP Freeacre... U had a hell of a run girl!!

    All that stuff we may likely not agree on but at least now y'all have a better idea why...

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  23. #42
    Senior Member palooka's revenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    but are we not still basically corralled like cattle grazing in the field?
    literally... almost... but... that don't mean we can't reverse that... but... that then means we must re-claim our personal power.

    that's do-able simply because it belongs to us in the first place... we each are our personal power's right place...

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  25. #43
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Now I must have missed these paradigm shifts history offers up, can you please shoot me an example or two?
    Quote Originally posted by palooka's revenge View Post
    From Hunter/Gatherers to Agriculture is the first one to come into mind. The general consensus is this happened over a long period of time but there is convincing evidence it happened very quickly (Graham Hancock's work comes to mind).

    I had intended to go on with more but your question triggered that answer for starters but that then triggered the memory that I'd written about this a few years back. Not so much in context of paradigm shift but, rather, in a way that will read like science fiction... 'cept for one thing... I'm dead serious...

    If I try and dive deep to the heart of what you're saying, is that we've forgotten our true power.

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    but are we not still basically corralled like cattle grazing in the field?
    Quote Originally posted by palooka's revenge View Post
    literally... almost... but... that don't mean we can't reverse that... but... that then means we must re-claim our personal power.

    that's do-able simply because it belongs to us in the first place... we each are our personal power's right place...
    I agree 100% about reclaiming our personal power, the only place of divergence here would be that I'm not seeing the "we" thing happening. As in we, the collective reclaiming our power. I see that spark flashing off here and there on an individual level, but more and more what I'm seeing is zombified behavior like people crossing busy parking lots to the store without bothering to look for oncoming cars, or else walking around with their nose stuck into their phone so that they are totally oblivious of their surroundings.

    It's like almost a subconscious anti life program running in the background. If one can't even be bothered to be aware of their surroundings, or look out for cars, how likely are they even to realize they have lost and long forgotten power, much less seek to regain it?

    By the way I liked your analogy of different possible reactions to spilling a bucket of paint on the floor. Made me not feel so bad about the occasional brief tirade I fly into when doing something careless like that!
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Feel similar has been said repeated much of late, to many.


    Quote Originally posted by Wind View Post
    Do you think the media is telling the truth and you can trust what the American intelligence agencies say?

    Would you think think that they told you the truth about Roswell, the Bay of Pigs, JFK's murder, 9/11, Snowden etc...

    Think carefully about that one.

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    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    I can report what I see with my own two eyeballs. Trump is a bigger prick in victory than most are as losers.

    I may actually get where I've been accused of being for 3 years...Actively hating Trump
    "We are one thought away from changing the world, but in all the confusion I've forgotten what it was"

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