The Lines Have Been Drawn

**Wind** · 23rd March 2019, 17:44

Originally posted by Maggie

The purpose from the ashes is not by accident AND BY WHOM IS THAT DETERMINED?

By the will of the Creator... It would seem. I am not talking about the man made chaos or catastrophes even though they are part of this kali yuga where people are so highly ignorant about the truth, but I am more referring to the tale of the Phoenix rising out from the metaphorical ashes. Our world doesn't have to turn literally into ashes as it surely might, but the transformation can be more harmonious too. That being said, it would seem that with all of these changes that are happening our our world and the solar system/universe, things seem to change through rather dramatic ways often. We are witnessing it with nature too, but change is not a bad thing. Humans just always resist it...

Natural change will always end up bringing harmony, when humans try control things it will only create more chaos and destruction. As powerful co-creator beings we do have the power to be sources of creative power too and I hope that many of us may act as beacons of light in these dark times.

**Emil El Zapato** · 23rd March 2019, 17:46

There is beauty in Chaos, there is extreme beauty when the Chaos resolves and becomes form...It's a miracle in action.

**Dreamtimer** · 23rd March 2019, 18:52

Like water freezing into snowflakes.

**Emil El Zapato** · 23rd March 2019, 21:06

yeah...that's a good one...

**Fred Steeves** · 24th March 2019, 15:26

Originally posted by Maggie

IMO we keep seeing choices presented in binary oppositions and every one agrees to just choice one or the other when all the time, if no one chooses any of it... THEN WHAT?

Well, to me Maggie that lays fairly close to the heart of this. Let's face it, even the alternative media, over time, demonstrates (albeit to a lesser degree) the same sheep like qualities of main stream media and the followers thereof. Not many people have dedicated themselves enough to "the practice" to have attained the mental elasticity needed for simply saying no to the binary choices, and walking away in search of their own personal solutions. Very difficult separating from the herd.

Originally posted by Maggie

Anybody with the interest to see how patterns are formed can then repattern. It is our own particular worlds that we live in. They are reality tunnels and we share them with everyone who is in a kind of relationship to our choice. If we get really Universal in our POV, we meet those people and experience that POV. We can choose any possible and make it more and more probable the more we intend it. However whatever we choose (attention informing what we choose and how we systematically replicate any thing at all as the technology ) will be what we live in. Our VISION gets cemented into fact by belief in it, What IF we learn how to unchoose, unbelieve and disagree? IMO If we change our mind, the landscape MUST alter.

This is indeed true. However, IMO it's only at the micro level, not the macro. I can massage my own little reality bubble to suit my desires, and so can you, but I can't stop the next war any more than you can. That would take a collective agreement wouldn't it? And I can't ever see the collective agreeing on ANYTHING that they want to see. Can you?

The ancient philosophers knew this, and they also knew that their government could swoop in at any moment to dispose of them, if they so chose. Their knowledge ,power and influence only went so far. IMO our overall shared reality is fixed, it may give a little around the edges every now and zen, but overall these are the rules we have to live by. Like the law of gravity.

I think this is why the philosophers of all Ages stress self liberation, not world liberation. The only thing we truly have any power over is ourselves, and our immediate surroundings. And even THAT power is only available to those who really want it bad enough, who are willing to perform the required long term diligence and self examination in order to attain it. Like George and Ringo said: "It Don't Come Easy".

Originally posted by Wind

I am not talking about the man made chaos or catastrophes even though they are part of this kali yuga where people are so highly ignorant about the truth, but I am more referring to the tale of the Phoenix rising out from the metaphorical ashes. Our world doesn't have to turn literally into ashes as it surely might, but the transformation can be more harmonious too.

Now here again Kali Yuga, same as Samsara, is literally a set of conditions in which one must operate to walk this planet. Right? It's up to the individual how they navigate it, and they will do it and do it and do, and do it some more, until they get it right. The Phoenix speaks not of world liberation, it speaks of self liberation.

Folks, that's how I see it anyway. I think this whole thing of we all must go together is a wild goose chase. Hell LOL, it even reminds of the Qanon mantra "WWG1WGA" (Where We Go 1 We Go All). Bullshit.

**Wind** · 24th March 2019, 19:20

Originally posted by Fred Steeves

The Phoenix speaks not of world liberation, it speaks of self liberation.

True.

**Fred Steeves** · 28th March 2019, 11:32

This guy is one of the several voices of reason I follow to keep my finger on the pulse of things. A far lefty, yet all about ideas, solutions, and helping to mold his side's message to be as constructive for all as possible; not the usual excusing your own side and lambasting the other side as enemies of mankind that both sides regularly do. Note: this also includes not being afraid to hold those in one's own tribe accountable when warranted.

He is a shining example of someone transcending the lines that divide us. If more people on both sides could manage this way of going about things, there might be hope for this country yet. I seriously doubt it, I think we're way too far gone down the ole shitter already, but well worth a listen anyway

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV1a9ZWeT4k

**Dreamtimer** · 28th March 2019, 11:45

I'm just curious Fred, why do you think we need to know that he's a 'far lefty'? (I personally like to just listen to what someone has to say without the 'he's a', 'she's a' filter)

**Emil El Zapato** · 28th March 2019, 12:18

Rand Paul?

No, this guy is lost...When did Russia interference become a hoax? This guy is another worlder.

**Fred Steeves** · 28th March 2019, 12:58

Originally posted by Dreamtimer

I'm just curious Fred, why do you think we need to know that he's a 'far lefty'? (I personally like to just listen to what someone has to say without the 'he's a', 'she's a' filter)

It's self described. He commonly refers to himself, as in this video, as progressive as progressive can be.

The whole point of this thread is about the lines drawn that divide us, and how we tend more and more to just rip to shreds anyone not on our side of these boundaries. Whatever those boundaries may be, which in this case is politics. Speaking of which I found it deliciously ironic that he made a big point of clarifying he only agrees with Rand Paul 5% of the time, yet even in a thread like this, that's all it takes for NAP to automatically recoil in horror.

The commentators I pay attention to and respect have long grown up and gotten past that, and look for areas of agreement where something of mutual benefit for all sides concerned can be found. A very rare quality in these dark days of hyper partisanship and stone chunking out of glass houses.

As I pointed out before it's also about being level headed and broad viewed enough to criticize our own when deserved. Were he a cop or college professor pointing out problems with their own in order to try and better things, I would refer to him as a cop or college professor as well.

**Emil El Zapato** · 28th March 2019, 13:22

No matter a stated political affiliation, if the philosophy doesn't map to reality it is useless.

**Fred Steeves** · 28th March 2019, 14:07

Originally posted by NotAPretender

No matter a stated political affiliation, if the philosophy doesn't map to reality it is useless.

Bullshit.

If Rand Paul had a D or a DS behind his name, you wouldn't have just ripped that commentator a new one for daring to agree with him even a mere 5% of the time.

You also wouldn't have needlessly painted yourself into a corner with that knee jerk reaction by in essence saying if Rand is wrong 100% of the time, then by default that makes you pro foreign wars for oil, pro NSA spying, and anti free speech.

I'm no fan of (my choir of 3) Wade Frazier, but he's spot on when saying "Godzilla" rarely needs to lift a finger to divide, control and corral us, most of the time we're well trained enough to do the job for him.

That's what you just did. That's what most of us unwittingly do, and that's the point of this thread...

**Emil El Zapato** · 28th March 2019, 14:12

Not even, Fred...that is not what I'm doing. I won't clarify my position to you because it is too much fun disagreeing with you. Someday, you will see where I'm coming from...

**Fred Steeves** · 28th March 2019, 14:31

Originally posted by NotAPretender

Not even, Fred...that is not what I'm doing. I won't clarify my position to you because it is too much fun disagreeing with you. Someday, you will see where I'm coming from...

Pffffffft... in that case it makes you a troll. Either way lends not to the credibility of this forum as a reputable, ongoing conversation in the market place of ideas.

**Emil El Zapato** · 28th March 2019, 16:22

okkkk, Fred, that guy is in fantasyland. To refer to Russiagate as a hoax is completely ridiculous. The American intelligence framework had concerns that Trump was acting as an agent. Why would you refuse to believe that and in turn trust a face on the internet? Think carefully about that one. And why would anyone give Rand Paul any credibility as a sober, sane spokesman. He's crazier than his old man who was nothing more than a leprechaun in a politician's non-green suit.