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Thread: Robert Mueller, the Master Of Silence

  1. #31
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Ha, too late for that you're looking at it.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  3. #32
    Senior Member giovonni's Avatar
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    Rolling Eyes

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I'm most certainly in favor of avoiding the circumstances which will lead to a bunch of warlord gangsters. They usually involve chaos...

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Ha, too late for that you're looking at it.



    "Right Said Fred" !

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  5. #33
    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Lots of speculation atm >


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  7. #34
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Perhaps I'm just missing the obvious (hey it happens ), or as Cenk Uygur would put it Super obvious LOL, but could someone who follows this Russia muh Pussia thing closely please point me to any concrete evidence that Captain Chaos colluded with Vlad the Terrible to steal the 2016 election from Queen Hillary?

    Further, if such evidence does indeed exist I have another simple question: Why hasn't this clown been impeached already?
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  9. #35
    Senior Member giovonni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Perhaps I'm just missing the obvious (hey it happens ), or as Cenk Uygur would put it Super obvious LOL, but could someone who follows this Russia muh Pussia thing closely please point me to any concrete evidence that Captain Chaos colluded with Vlad the Terrible to steal the 2016 election from Queen Hillary?

    Further, if such evidence does indeed exist I have another simple question: Why hasn't this clown been impeached already?
    Ah, Fred that's what we were all waiting to see (if there is any evidence) via the Mueller thingy ...
    And as far as i know - that investigation is still ongoing ...
    But frankly, i would hope Trump is not a traitor ...

    So relax and enjoy the Superbowl weekend ...

    PS ~ personally though, i feel Trump should be kicked out of office - for just being so fucking annoying ...

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  11. #36
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I think you know this Fred. For collusion to be a crime it has to involve conspiracy. For that to be proven, intent has to be indicated. Trump has openly indicated his intent. Evidence is likely solid.

    So what's next?

    Oh yeah, our Congress has to do its job. You know, the one that couldn't even do its job and consider Merrick Garland's nomination for over a year. The one with dysfunctional McConnell, who also has money interests with Russia, at the helm. Why in the world do you think impeachment hasn't happened?

    It's pretty obvious.

    But Trump isn't the teflon man he thinks he is and his support is beginning to bleed away.

    Money before people and party before country can't last forever.

    We shall see, won't we?

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  13. #37
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Perhaps I'm just missing the obvious (hey it happens ), or as Cenk Uygur would put it Super obvious LOL, but could someone who follows this Russia muh Pussia thing closely please point me to any concrete evidence that Captain Chaos colluded with Vlad the Terrible to steal the 2016 election from Queen Hillary?

    Further, if such evidence does indeed exist I have another simple question: Why hasn't this clown been impeached already?
    Ah, Fred that's what we were all waiting to see (if there is any evidence) via the Mueller thingy ...
    And as far as i know - that investigation is still ongoing ...
    But frankly, i would hope Trump is not a traitor ...
    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Perhaps I'm just missing the obvious (hey it happens ), or as Cenk Uygur would put it Super obvious LOL, but could someone who follows this Russia muh Pussia thing closely please point me to any concrete evidence that Captain Chaos colluded with Vlad the Terrible to steal the 2016 election from Queen Hillary?

    Further, if such evidence does indeed exist I have another simple question: Why hasn't this clown been impeached already?
    I think you know this Fred. For collusion to be a crime it has to involve conspiracy. For that to be proven, intent has to be indicated. T
    What I personally think ─ and I believe that the breadcrumbs have already been pointed out a few times ─ is that Donald Trump didn't necessarily collude with Vladimir Putin personally or with the Russian government in general, but that if there truly was any Russian interference in the 2016 US elections, then it was probably of a non-nation-state-sanctioned nature.

    By this I mean that, either with or without Donald Trump's knowledge ─ and even with or without the knowledge and/or cooperation of Trump's campaign supporters such as Breitbart and Cambridge Analytica ─ there may have been Russian intervention by hackers working for the Russian oligarchs with whom Trump has had financial dealings, because it would have been in said oligarchs' best interest that Donald Trump and not Hillary Clinton won the elections. Trump himself has had dealings with the US-based branch of the Sicilian Mafia in the past, and everything he's done so far on account of US-internal legislation has been in favor of the US oligarchs.

    Just because a group of hackers operates from within Russia doesn't mean that they would be government-employed hackers, anymore than that the Sicilian Mafia would be operating on behalf of the Italian government, or that the Red Dragons would be working on behalf of the Chinese government, or that the Yakuza would be working on behalf of the Japanese government, and so on.

    One thing is certain, i.e. it was already under the George W. Bush administration ─ and if I'm not mistaken, then it was during Bush Jr.'s second term ─ that the US government chose to reignite the Cold War and turn the Russians into a villain again, thereby destroying any and all progress toward US-Russian collaboration that had been made since the fall of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s. And it was under Barack Obama ─ and vocalized in the mainstream media by Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State ─ that this vilification of Russia was escalated even more. And so this is something the US Democrats have now chosen to sink their teeth into, even though it was actually started under a neocon administration.

    Let's face it, both the Democrats and the Republicans are sore losers. The difference is that the Democrats will look for someone to blame politically for their defeat, whereas the Republicans do it through finding and/or inventing something of a sexual nature against their adversaries, such as that Barack Obama would be gay and Michelle Obama would be a transvestite or a transgender (and that their children would have been adopted), or that Hillary Clinton would be a lesbian who has sexually abused more women than her husband, or ─ in the quite literal sense ─ the dirt on Bill Clinton's (real) sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky.

    In my personal opinion, it makes the US Democrats pathetic, the US Republicans disgusting, and the entire bipartisan US duopoly just as retarded as those people who object to abortion because they are supposedly pro-life while at the same time they're also still vocally supporting the death penalty.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  15. #38
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    There's plenty more to come...In the way of Conspirac[y/ies]

    Trump is withdrawing from the Salt treaty...Nuclear Arms Treaty by any other name. Speculation is that could cause another global arms race...Perfect!

    The U.S. with Trump and Russia with Putin can build up their arms and take over the world together (Trump is a Russian agent, after all).

    Unfortunately, for Trump, after the takeover he will be Numero Uno on Putin's hitlist of political enemies. What a chump Trump is...
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  17. #39
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    The turn on Russia didn't occur until after the annexation of whoever and the attempted takeover of whoever. What's his name was laughed at when during his Presidential campaign he cited 'Russia' as America's biggest enemy. Putin is responsible for everything that is happening now. He is a bigger ahole than Trump and at least twice as smart. Given that Trump's IQ is about 70 that would make Putin's about 140 which is plenty good for him to make absolute no sense to Trump which makes the Idiot of the United States plum pickings.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  19. #40
    Administrator Aragorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    There's plenty more to come...In the way of Conspirac[y/ies]

    Trump is withdrawing from the Salt treaty...Nuclear Arms Treaty by any other name. Speculation is that could cause another global arms race...Perfect!
    Now why am I not surprised?

    Oh and by the way, for those who weren't paying attention during the history classes at school, SALT ─ spelled correctly in all-uppercase ─ is the acronym for the Strategic Arms Limitation Talks treaties between the USA and the former Soviet Union which started in Helsinki (Finland) in 1969, and which were amended several times, until well into the Ronald Reagan administration.

    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    The U.S. with Trump and Russia with Putin can build up their arms and take over the world together (Trump is a Russian agent, after all).
    I'm sorry, but the claim that Donald Trump would be a Russian agent is just as ludicrous as the claim that he's playing 5D chess against the alleged Deep State™ with QAnon by his side.





    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    The turn on Russia didn't occur until after the annexation of whoever and the attempted takeover of whoever.
    If you're referring to the revolution in Ukraine, then no, you would be wrong. The turn on Russia happened under George W. Bush, when Bush wanted to put up a rocket shield in Poland and other European nations ─ read: US colonies by virtue of the NATO agreements ─ that was going to be facing Russia.

    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    What's his name was laughed at when during his Presidential campaign he cited 'Russia' as America's biggest enemy.
    I could be wrong, but I believe it was John McCain who said that, and as a Vietnam War veteran, he was an old-school hard-line Republican.

    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Putin is responsible for everything that is happening now. He is a bigger ahole than Trump and at least twice as smart.
    I'm sorry, but that's just as ridiculous as your claim higher up that Trump would be a Russian agent. Putin is no saint, but he is neither looking forward to an armed confrontation with the US, nor did he instigate the Cold War revival that's in full swing again right now.

    Perhaps I should remind you that the USA has been perpetually at war since the end of World War II, and that all of those wars have always been fought outside of the borders of the USA. Ever since the Russian revolution under Lenin, but specifically since World War II, the USA has always lived in paranoia toward The Great Commie Scare™, which is why, to this very day, the USA has always been behaving as the bully of the world, spreading consumerism/capitalism/corporatism, um, I mean, freedom across the world.

    One of the main reasons that the USA is always in need of an enemy ─ and what better enemy to pick than Russia, which does after all still have a huge contingent of nuclear weaponry ─ and preferably also at war somewhere is that the military-industrial complex makes for a significant portion of the US economy. In his farewell speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower already warned the American public for "unwarranted power, whether sought or unsought" of the military-industrial complex.



    Quote Originally posted by NotAPretender View Post
    Given that Trump's IQ is about 70 that would make Putin's about 140 which is plenty good for him to make absolute no sense to Trump which makes the Idiot of the United States plum pickings.
    Vladimir Putin is indeed a very intelligent man ─ well educated, well read, and an experienced statesman. On the other hand, Donald J. Trump's IQ isn't exactly as low as you are making it out to be. But then again, one's IQ score does not correctly represent someone's intelligence, and it certainly isn't a representation of one's wisdom by any measure.

    Donald J. Trump is a misogynist, a racist and a clinical narcissist. Rather than that he would be truly dumb, I would describe him as an utter fool. He is neither wise, nor is he a statesman. He doesn't even realize how his narcissism makes him an open book that anyone can read ─ with the exception of the QAnon groupies and other far-right-leaning individuals. And that alone already disqualifies him as a Russian agent.

    It wasn't all that long ago that we've had an infestation with far-right-itis here on this forum, and that we were all being drowned in a fanatically posted ultra-right propaganda campaign. But what you're doing right here and right now is the exact same thing, albeit painted with the colors of the backside of that same bipartisan coin ─ i.e. you're engaging in knee-jerks and you're merely parrotting pro-Democrat propaganda. Pro-Democrat propaganda is just as bad as pro-Republican propaganda, and knee-jerks are still knee-jerks. It is wrong, period.

    You're still stuck in the "us vs. them" paradigm. Snap out of it.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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  21. #41
    Super Moderator United States Dreamtimer's Avatar
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    I recall that it was Romney who warned about the Russians and got laughed at. And Sarah Palin as well. She can see them from her house!

    Trump, who has used Reagan's slogan of making America great again is busy undoing Reagan's legacy. Reagan told Gorbachev to tear down the wall. Trump wants to build one. Reagan worked with Gorbachev to achieve the SALT treaty. And now Trump is backing out. I'm sure there are more things to add to the list.

    Reagan was the republicans god-on-earth and now their man Trump is screwing up his legacy. I wonder if they'll even care?

    The government shutdowns were supposed to be about a balanced budget. That was the high and mighty principal. Now the same group is shutting down the government for political reasons over a wall that no-one wanted until Trump started campaigning.

    How seriously effed up is that? We're a bunch of morons sometimes.

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  23. #42
    Senior Member Fred Steeves's Avatar
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    Joking

    Quote Originally posted by Fred Steeves View Post
    Perhaps I'm just missing the obvious (hey it happens ), or as Cenk Uygur would put it Super obvious LOL, but could someone who follows this Russia muh Pussia thing closely please point me to any concrete evidence that Captain Chaos colluded with Vlad the Terrible to steal the 2016 election from Queen Hillary?

    Further, if such evidence does indeed exist I have another simple question: Why hasn't this clown been impeached already?
    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    Ah, Fred that's what we were all waiting to see (if there is any evidence) via the Mueller thingy ...
    And as far as i know - that investigation is still ongoing ...
    I know the investigation is still ongoing, reminds me of the movie The Never Ending Story, but there's so many Chicken Littles out there running around screaming not "the sky is falling!" but "Russia Russia Russia!", that it makes me feel like I've missed something crucial. When in actuality all anyone has to go on are a bunch of indictments that could be handed down to practically any critter in the D.C. swamp, and having nothing to do with Russia.

    Perhaps it's just desperation to get us back to the good old days of war, subterfuge, bribary and corruption, but with the calming smiling face that will make us all feel good about it again?

    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    So relax and enjoy the Superbowl weekend ...
    Yeah man, beer and wings coming up!

    Quote Originally posted by giovonni View Post
    PS ~ personally though, i feel Trump should be kicked out of office - for just being so fucking annoying ...
    Yes, he certainly is annoying as fuck if you let him get under your skin. Better get used to it though because I don't think Mueller has the goods.


    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    For collusion to be a crime it has to involve conspiracy. For that to be proven, intent has to be indicated. Trump has openly indicated his intent. Evidence is likely solid.
    "Likely" is the key word here, and I'm doubtful it's even likely. More like wishful thinking.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    So what's next?

    Oh yeah, our Congress has to do its job. You know, the one that couldn't even do its job and consider Merrick Garland's nomination for over a year. The one with dysfunctional McConnell, who also has money interests with Russia, at the helm. Why in the world do you think impeachment hasn't happened?
    Well Team D of course already has Congress, it's the Senate that's the sticking point. Just clarifying. If your man Mueller does indeed come back with smoking gun evidence for an indictment, then I think McConnell would have no other choice but to pull the trigger on impeachment. Even then however, just because Captain Chaos gets charged with a crime and impeachment proceedings get underway, doesn't necessarily mean he's found guilty and is removed from office.

    You may not trust McConnell to ultimately decide that (and neither do I), but Team R ain't gonna trust Schumer either (and neither would I) if he winds up being the man again after 2020. So playing this out, where would the decision from either swamp critter leave public opinion? The spark that sets off this weird little civil war that's stewing about in the shadows? Just some JPF type of high octane speculation.


    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    Vladimir Putin is indeed a very intelligent man ─ well educated, well read, and an experienced statesman. On the other hand, Donald J. Trump's IQ isn't exactly as low as you are making it out to be. But then again, one's IQ score does not correctly represent someone's intelligence, and it certainly isn't a representation of one's wisdom by any measure.

    Donald J. Trump is a misogynist, a racist and a clinical narcissist. Rather than that he would be truly dumb, I would describe him as an utter fool. He is neither wise, nor is he a statesman. He doesn't even realize how his narcissism makes him an open book that anyone can read ─ with the exception of the QAnon groupies and other far-right-leaning individuals. And that alone already disqualifies him as a Russian agent.

    It wasn't all that long ago that we've had an infestation with far-right-itis here on this forum, and that we were all being drowned in a fanatically posted ultra-right propaganda campaign. But what you're doing right here and right now is the exact same thing, albeit painted with the colors of the backside of that same bipartisan coin ─ i.e. you're engaging in knee-jerks and you're merely parrotting pro-Democrat propaganda. Pro-Democrat propaganda is just as bad as pro-Republican propaganda, and knee-jerks are still knee-jerks. It is wrong, period.
    Well said.

    Quote Originally posted by Aragorn View Post
    You're still stuck in the "us vs. them" paradigm. Snap out of it.
    Unfortunately, neither side will be snapping out of it any time soon. It's all about all things Trump here, and it's all consuming, picture trench warfare in WW 1 France.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.

    Socrates

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  25. #43
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    Aragorn,

    you make me laugh...you read a lot more into my posts than I intended. I was writing in generalities which in essence are all accurate. Far leftist...that's a laugh. I'm in a mode where I could hardly care about world politics. You did miss one major AND generalized point. World War under Trump = US + Russia. World War under any human being in the humanasphere = US versus Russia.

    At least you gave Modwiz a reason to apply a thanks.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  27. #44
    Senior Member NotAPretender's Avatar
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    For Whatever it's Worth:

    The Poland thing was precipitated by the US efforts to 'stabilize' a.k.a. protect Europeans countries from possible infiltration of bad actors from the Middle East. Russia's reaction was/is politics as usual. A minor thorn in the side of all sides. There were elements on both sides of the aisle in the US at the time that were willing to give Russia its head in managing those conflicts. No longer would that be a viable option with the exception of Trump's compliance.

    The treaty in question is actually START, an acronym that requires all caps, for all the English majors out there that might be concerned about grammatical errors.

    To consider Trump as agent a 'ridiculous' notion you should be aware, Mr. Aragorn, that is what pushed the entire process in to gear. The suspicion/fear of the American intelligence community that Trump could actually be working on behalf of Russia.

    You should also be aware that I could care less if anything about this is true or not. I was bored and depressed and looking for a way to harmlessly vent. Which I did. Live Long and Prosper my friends.

    Russia, Russia, Russia...grates on my nerves as bad as 'back engineer' does.
    "We are one thought away from changing the world!"

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  29. #45
    Senior Member giovonni's Avatar
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    Thinking

    Then and now ...


    Richard Nixon vs. Donald Trump - State of The Union

    "I believe the time has come to bring that investigation and the other investigations of this matter to an end.
    One year of Watergate is enough."
    -Richard M. Nixon, SOTU 1974

    "If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation."
    -Donald J. Trump, SOTU 2019

    Published on Feb 5, 2019

    1:04 minutes


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